"crazy-town" "SAPS" topic. Diesel Oil Changes.

[MaxStrategery]

Going to try to keep this very simple.

Regarding EcoDiesel oil changes. Logic tells me to extend the life of the DPF as much as possible. Logic tells Jeep to use "High SAPS" oil which decreases DPF lifespan. The apparent logic of using High Saps oil is to get more mileage out of the oil, thereby, less oil changes. I do 5,000-6,000 mile oil changes regardless of the 10K changes that jeep prescribes with their synthetic oil.

So, if I am doing shorter intervals on oil changes, should I be concerned about potentially more "wear" from using a "Mid SAPS" oil?

I like AMSOIL for diesels historically but they do not meet any requirements that I can find. It sounds like AMSOIL is a "MID SAPS" oil as is MOTUL (MOTUL is MS-12991)
AMSOIL apparently met the MS-12991 requirement back in 2012 or 2013 but do not label for it.

Any thoughts from EcoDiesel owners that have done a few oil changes?

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[Mr._Bill]

There is a very long thread on this in the diesel section.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...bo-ecodiesel-maintenance-mods-discussions.19/

 

[MaxStrategery]

There is a very long thread on this in the diesel section.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...bo-ecodiesel-maintenance-mods-discussions.19/

There is nothing up to date there on Amsoil. I guess the Wrangler forums will have better info.

 

[22EcoDs]

There is nothing up to date there on Amsoil. I guess the Wrangler forums will have better info.

Is your concern with staying within ms12991 and an oil of your preference? What if you open your choices up to api sn/sp in 5w-40?

 

[Mr._Bill]

There is nothing up to date there on Amsoil. I guess the Wrangler forums will have better info.

There are recent postings about Amsoil on the last three pages of the thread. If I remember correctly, one of the Amsoil advocates posted that he uses Pennzoil.

If warranty is a major concern, have the changes done by a dealer. Otherwise, follow the Owners Manual.

 

[MaxStrategery]

Is your concern with staying within ms12991 and an oil of your preference? What if you open your choices up to api sn/sp in 5w-40?

Looking to extend DPF lifespan. The newer lower SAPS oils do that but Jeep calls for the opposite. I am unable to find what exactly ms12991 is, what are the specifications? I have found "1" motor oil that satisfies 12991 and is Mid level SAPS.

https://www.motul.com/en-US/products/17700?product=MOTUL+8100+X-CLEAN+5W-40

Owners manual calls for Mopar oil or similar A3/B4 and ms12991 (full SAPS). It seems DPF must not be an important factor if the cloggiest oil there is is what is required.

 

[MaxStrategery]

There are recent postings about Amsoil on the last three pages of the thread. If I remember correctly, one of the Amsoil advocates posted that he uses Pennzoil.

If warranty is a major concern, have the changes done by a dealer. Otherwise, follow the Owners Manual.

Going to the dealer is too much of a hassle anymore, not worth my time for oil changes.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Going to try to keep this very simple.

Regarding EcoDiesel oil changes. Logic tells me to extend the life of the DPF as much as possible. Logic tells Jeep to use "High SAPS" oil which decreases DPF lifespan. The apparent logic of using High Saps oil is to get more mileage out of the oil, thereby, less oil changes. I do 5,000-6,000 mile oil changes regardless of the 10K changes that jeep prescribes with their synthetic oil.

So, if I am doing shorter intervals on oil changes, should I be concerned about potentially more "wear" from using a "Mid SAPS" oil?

I like AMSOIL for diesels historically but they do not meet any requirements that I can find. It sounds like AMSOIL is a "MID SAPS" oil as is MOTUL (MOTUL is MS-12991)
AMSOIL apparently met the MS-12991 requirement back in 2012 or 2013 but do not label for it.

Any thoughts from EcoDiesel owners that have done a few oil changes?

So here a little mini review that I've gathered from ecodeisel owners across all platforms. Rotella T6 is the standard for 2nd gen, but it was not a low SAPs oil and many sprinter forum have suffering users cus their def system doesn't play nicely (not an ecodeisel platform, just a reference). With the 3rd gen eco deisel finding that MS12991 i recommend is crucial, you can be denied warranty work for using oil that does not meet that rating. Shell has already stated that they do not intend to ever bother with that rating and so far it hold true as none of there lineup holds that rating. AMsoil had the previous rating for Chrysler Chrysler MS 10902 but despite multiple people telling me they have the current one as well, I've found no supporting documents and I doubt a warranty case with take word of mouth on a forum. I'll attach chart from AMSoil with their current ratings. with covering the oils you've suggested already here are some more with the MS12991 rating, I have not checked them for low SAPs, but there might be one in there, so have fun.

Mopar 68524020AA 5W-40 replaces 68231020AA
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40
Valvoline European Vehicle 5W-40
Quaker State Ultimate Durability EURO 5W-40
Havoline ProDS 5W-40
Castrol Edge Euro Car - 5W-40
FRAM Full Synthetic Euro 5W-40
Amsoil 5W-40 FS Synthetic European (EFM) (The one AMSoil that should have this rating, can't find it though)
Redline Full Synthetic 5W-40
Motul 8100 C-clean 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-cess gen2 5W-40
Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40 (must be DEF deleted)
TRIAX Euro LX 5W-40
TRIAX Euro Ultra VX 5W-40
Ravenol VST 5W-40
Total Quartz 9000 5W-40
ELF Evolution 900 SXR 5W-40
ELF Evolution 900 FT 5W-40
AMALIE Elixir Full Synthetic Euro 5W-40
Millers Oil Trident Fully Synthetic 5W-40
Millers Oils XF LONGLIFE 5W-40
MPT Thirty-K True Synthetic High Performance 5W-40
CAM2 Blue Blood Elite Euro 5W-40
FUCHS TITAN Supersyn SAE 5W-40
Lubrication Engineers 5w40 Monolec Ultra Syn Heavy Duty Engine Oil
REPSOL ELITE COSMOS HIGH PERFORMANCE 5W-40

edit: ratings change overtime, so double check that the oil still holds it before you buy.

edit 2: to help expedite your search, remember those Sprinters i mentioned, they require oil with a MB-Approval 229.3/ 229.5 rating. This is an extremely low SAPS rating due to the sensitivity of their DEF systems. If you can find this rating paired to the Chrysler rating your looking for, you may have a winner.

 

[MaxStrategery]

So here a little mini review that I've gathered from ecodeisel owners across all platforms. Rotella T6 is the standard for 2nd gen, but it was not a low SAPs oil and many sprinter forum have suffering users cus their def system doesn't play nicely (not an ecodeisel platform, just a reference). With the 3rd gen eco deisel finding that MS12991 i recommend is crucial, you can be denied warranty work for using oil that does not meet that rating. Shell has already stated that they do not intend to ever bother with that rating and so far it hold true as none of there lineup holds that rating. AMsoil had the previous rating for Chrysler Chrysler MS 10902 but despite multiple people telling me they have the current one as well, I've found no supporting documents and I doubt a warranty case with take word of mouth on a forum. I'll attach chart from AMSoil with their current ratings. with covering the oils you've suggested already here are some more with the MS12991 rating, I have not checked them for low SAPs, but there might be one in there, so have fun.

Mopar 68524020AA 5W-40 replaces 68231020AA
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40
Valvoline European Vehicle 5W-40
Quaker State Ultimate Durability EURO 5W-40
Havoline ProDS 5W-40
Castrol Edge Euro Car - 5W-40
FRAM Full Synthetic Euro 5W-40
Amsoil 5W-40 FS Synthetic European (EFM) (The one AMSoil that should have this rating, can't find it though)
Redline Full Synthetic 5W-40
Motul 8100 C-clean 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-cess gen2 5W-40
Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40
TRIAX Euro LX 5W-40
TRIAX Euro Ultra VX 5W-40
Ravenol VST 5W-40
Total Quartz 9000 5W-40
ELF Evolution 900 SXR 5W-40
ELF Evolution 900 FT 5W-40
AMALIE Elixir Full Synthetic Euro 5W-40
Millers Oil Trident Fully Synthetic 5W-40
Millers Oils XF LONGLIFE 5W-40
MPT Thirty-K True Synthetic High Performance 5W-40
CAM2 Blue Blood Elite Euro 5W-40
FUCHS TITAN Supersyn SAE 5W-40
Lubrication Engineers 5w40 Monolec Ultra Syn Heavy Duty Engine Oil
REPSOL ELITE COSMOS HIGH PERFORMANCE 5W-40

edit: ratings change overtime, so double check that the oil still holds it before you buy.

edit 2: to help expedite your search, remember those Sprinters i mentioned, they require oil with a MB-Approval 229.3/ 229.5 rating. This is an extremely low SAPS rating due to the sensitivity of their DEF systems. If you can find this rating paired to the Chrysler rating your looking for, you may have a winner.

what the heck is MS-12991? I personally think this is all about forcing us to go to the dealership for basic fluid changes. MOTUL looks like the best option to get a lower SAPS level and MS-12991. Thanks for the info.

 

[PuddleJumper]

what the heck is MS-12991? I personally think this is all about forcing us to go to the dealership for basic fluid changes. MOTUL looks like the best option to get a lower SAPS level and MS-12991. Thanks for the info.

idk its some dumb shit probably.

 

[RandyP111]

So here a little mini review that I've gathered from ecodeisel owners across all platforms. Rotella T6 is the standard for 2nd gen, but it was not a low SAPs oil and many sprinter forum have suffering users cus their def system doesn't play nicely (not an ecodeisel platform, just a reference). With the 3rd gen eco deisel finding that MS12991 i recommend is crucial, you can be denied warranty work for using oil that does not meet that rating. Shell has already stated that they do not intend to ever bother with that rating and so far it hold true as none of there lineup holds that rating. AMsoil had the previous rating for Chrysler Chrysler MS 10902 but despite multiple people telling me they have the current one as well, I've found no supporting documents and I doubt a warranty case with take word of mouth on a forum. I'll attach chart from AMSoil with their current ratings. with covering the oils you've suggested already here are some more with the MS12991 rating, I have not checked them for low SAPs, but there might be one in there, so have fun.

Mopar 68524020AA 5W-40 replaces 68231020AA
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40
Valvoline European Vehicle 5W-40
Quaker State Ultimate Durability EURO 5W-40
Havoline ProDS 5W-40
Castrol Edge Euro Car - 5W-40
FRAM Full Synthetic Euro 5W-40
Amsoil 5W-40 FS Synthetic European (EFM) (The one AMSoil that should have this rating, can't find it though)
Redline Full Synthetic 5W-40
Motul 8100 C-clean 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40
Motul 8100 X-cess gen2 5W-40
Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40
TRIAX Euro LX 5W-40
TRIAX Euro Ultra VX 5W-40
Ravenol VST 5W-40
Total Quartz 9000 5W-40
ELF Evolution 900 SXR 5W-40
ELF Evolution 900 FT 5W-40
AMALIE Elixir Full Synthetic Euro 5W-40
Millers Oil Trident Fully Synthetic 5W-40
Millers Oils XF LONGLIFE 5W-40
MPT Thirty-K True Synthetic High Performance 5W-40
CAM2 Blue Blood Elite Euro 5W-40
FUCHS TITAN Supersyn SAE 5W-40
Lubrication Engineers 5w40 Monolec Ultra Syn Heavy Duty Engine Oil
REPSOL ELITE COSMOS HIGH PERFORMANCE 5W-40

edit: ratings change overtime, so double check that the oil still holds it before you buy.

edit 2: to help expedite your search, remember those Sprinters i mentioned, they require oil with a MB-Approval 229.3/ 229.5 rating. This is an extremely low SAPS rating due to the sensitivity of their DEF systems. If you can find this rating paired to the Chrysler rating your looking for, you may have a winner.

Thanks so much...this kind of info helps a lot, availability is not always certain for any brand.

 

[biodiesel]

Rotella T6 is the standard for 2nd gen, but it was not a low SAPs oil

Actually, Rotella T6 is a low SAPS oil. There are EcoDiesel owners with over 300,000+ miles running T6 with no emissions issues or DPF clogging.

 

[@californiajeeping]

I have been running amsoil signature max duty 15-40 since my third oil change around 24k I am at 40k on the dot.

no issues and the oil analysis has come back with drastically reduced aluminum and iron each oil change it drops. It also has held visocity better than whatever pennzoil the factory uses. The sillicon has dropped steadily with each oil change. I do use mopar fuel and oil filters and hot shots EDT each fill up 2oz.

Jeeps been to the dealer less than any of the 3.6l pentastars ive owned.

 

[KEG2021]

Actually, Rotella T6 is a low SAPS oil. There are EcoDiesel owners with over 300,000+ miles running T6 with no emissions issues or DPF clogging.

Using T6 since new. Just fyi read the liqui moly and it states for vehicles without a def system so again read fully and do your own homework. Not saying everyone but some people will give out bad info from not educating themselves or just being a**holes and snicker when you have issues.

 

[PuddleJumper]

Actually, Rotella T6 is a low SAPS oil. There are EcoDiesel owners with over 300,000+ miles running T6 with no emissions issues or DPF clogging.

Low SAPS by euro standard is what i was looking at. T6 rated with a higher SAPS content then most other low saps 5w-40 by euro spec ratings. However it doesn't hold the new rating required by Chrysler. Granted T6 is absolutely fine to run in any EcoDiesel. But for warranty purposes on the 3rd gen EcoDiesel and for some more sensitive euro diesels, its not.


Edit: ACEA ratings are the easiest way to tell if a oil holds a low SAPS rating. for 5w-40 it should have a ACEA C3 or C4 rating to be considered Low SAPS for SAPS sensitive vehicles. T6 while holding a E9 rating by ACEA (this for additives) it does not hold Any ACEA C ratings and therefore also doesn't have many Mercedes, Porsche, or VW rating require for sensitive deisel/Def unit in the euro market. And with the ecodiesel being built by VM Motori in Italy, odds are she'll last longer or at least her def system will with a low SAPS rated oil. Now this doesn't mean T6 isn't low SAPS, it totally could be but Shell didn't bother to put in for the rating, cus ratings cost money. But considering that many a complaints arise with T6 overseas, it could be wagered that its more likely a mid SAPS or higher. beside 300,000 on a deisel is almost equivalent to 120,000 on a gasser, a lot of miles but not anywhere near end of life. A deisel with proper maintenance should live well in to half a million. the 7.3 i have is at 1.6 million miles with no rebuild. just injectors, filters, and oil. she currently runs on T6 but i have no idea what she was run on the first 900k as that was her previous owner.

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