Dangerous control of my Jeep over the internet

[Komesk]

The warning in the manual is a CYA from FCA, in the event that the system was breached. They are pushing to the owner the responsibility to watch for behavior that indicates the system has been affected. The odds of an actual breach are extremely low. All the reported incidents, so far, required prior physical access before they could be carried out.

Yes, that is CYA, but the point here is that there is a way to breach the system , my question is why the "online" system has to be connected to "mechanical" system? Are they planning to drive me remotely? Are those primitive options available via web site/app really worth the risk?

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[Komesk]

The 'online' features are optional. If you don't want them, don't get the 8.4 Uconnect.

The remote functions do not provide direct access to the Uconnect system that would allow hacking. They are pre-programmed functions that can be carried out if certain requirements are met. The system receives the request, determines if it can be carried out, and responds with the result.

Hmmm, the statement from manual warns about potentially different behavior.

 

[Mr._Bill]

Yes, that is CYA, but the point here is that there is a way to breach the system , my question is why the "online" system has to be connected to "mechanical" system? Are they planning to drive me remotely? Are those primitive options available via web site/app really worth the risk?

Any system can be breached, if physical access is available. The Jeep is not setup for remote control driving.

 

[Mr._Bill]

Hmmm, the statement from manual warns about potentially different behavior.

Yes, the statement in the manual is warning about unknown behaviors, if the system is actually hacked. The odds of that actually happening, without prior physical access, have been shown to be zero, so far.

 

[MrZappo]

That was written by a lawyer. Along with a phrase somewhere stating that jeeps are heavy and you shouldn't run people over with one.

Vehicles are inherently dangerous so if you buy one and drive over your own foot, FCA is not liable. That sort of stuff.

The fact that a CYA paragraph exists is no indication that you should have any expectation of that thing happening.

Lawyers are paid by the hour and they will write as many cya docs as can be reasonably justified and then a few more.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The functionality is very limited. What's to worry about? Someone would indeed need physical access.
Funny how people fear what they don't understand.........
I set mine up for fingerprint access on my phone (and my phone requires my finger print and PIN) - set my wife's up with PIN on her phone.
Like ALL other things, it's best to use a safe, complex password and change it every 90 days and never ever ever use the same password on any two things.
That point was reinforced lately when my Symantec protection AND Google both told me that some of my info was found "out there" - meaning an old email address associated with a password. When I checked, that password hadn't been used for a very long time and was only used on one thing even then. Now had I still been using it and had I used that password on multiple things, then someone could have gained access to some forum or account or whatever.
I also often use 2-factor authentication and set up accounts that allow it to challenge if access is tried from a different device.
I was network admin and security admin for a government agency as well as a major financial company and an electronic engineering company - and am not over-concerned about this.
People have not died, lost control or had one stolen due to these features. I think some of those crime dramas on TV show more bull crap than reality.

 

[SwampNut]

The 'online' features are optional. If you don't want them, don't get the 8.4 Uconnect.

BUT BUT BUT, you don't understand, everyone should be able to get EVERYTHING they want and have it done only exactly their way!! WAHHH!!!

 

[eaglerugby04]

I just had a thought. For the backend systems we are not relying on FCA, but Sirius for the security of our Jeeps. Based on the email offers I am getting to enroll both my cars that have expired service I am guessing they can't be doing to well right now. Prices are lower than anything I had to even fight them for in the past. Is it likely they will be breached, probably not. Is there a higher chance things like IT Security will be cut in the 2021 budget since the company had a bad year making the chance of a breach higher, yes.

 

[jlrocks]

BUT BUT BUT, you don't understand, everyone should be able to get EVERYTHING they want and have it done only exactly their way!! WAHHH!!!

Or maybe (just maybe) I should be able to opt out of a feature that has zero safety benefits and is stated *in the manual* to possibly "result in an accident involving serious injury or death". WAHHH!!!

 

[Factoid]

So let me tried to understand this issue. FCA has an IT infrastructure in their Jeep line so complex and interconnected that anything is possible and it is so complex they don’t even know what hackers are capable of doing with it. Yet, they can’t produce an electromechanical steering box that works properly and reliably in every vehicle. Witchcraft I say!

This isn’t even a first world problem, it is a tinfoil hat world problem.

 

[SwampNut]

I should be able to opt out of a feature

You can, it was pointed out before.

has zero safety benefits

False.

and is stated *in the manual* to possibly "result in an accident involving serious injury or death"

Also false, and even if true, it's just like other disclaimers about everything from cruise control to TPMS.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I just had a thought. For the backend systems we are not relying on FCA, but Sirius for the security of our Jeeps. Based on the email offers I am getting to enroll both my cars that have expired service I am guessing they can't be doing to well right now. Prices are lower than anything I had to even fight them for in the past. Is it likely they will be breached, probably not. Is there a higher chance things like IT Security will be cut in the 2021 budget since the company had a bad year making the chance of a breach higher, yes.

They've done that for years. You'd not believe how cheap my son keeps getting his service - often free for months, then $5/month or LESS. He's never paid full price and he really "works" their system.
My wife, same thing. We've been buying Grand Cherokees since shortly after they were introduced and of course that's always means satellite radio along with it. They hound the XXXX out of us! Emails, countless phone calls (from 2 or 3 different numbers at least indicating they hire people to work from home, perhaps? to market?)
It's unreal how long we've seen the emails and phone calls coming in after the service has expired on my wife's GCs (she trades roughly every 3 years - this time not quite 3 years as she wanted the keep the current GC platform)
Sirius just had another satellite launched - they had to pay for the launch and the satellite, of course - not cheap. That sort of tells me they aren't doing all that bad. No worse than any other industry is doing in these weird times.
They are also having to modify their marketing and pricing to deal with the pandemic and some people having a bit less money to spend in the last year. You can't keep pushing things the same old way at the same old prices these days (unless you are selling TP and hand sanitizer)

Or maybe (just maybe) I should be able to opt out of a feature that has zero safety benefits and is stated *in the manual* to possibly "result in an accident involving serious injury or death". WAHHH!!!

Wow, seriously? How is remote start, lock/unlock, horn honking going to hurt anyone (except an idiot, that is)
Zero safety benefits? OK, let's see - my JT warmed, windows cleared, mirrors defrosted, back window cleared compared to those asses driving with a little peep hole in the front and rear because they simply get in and go without warming anything up or clearing things off.
No safety benefits? Think again. You rarely see modern vehicles with remote start, etc. frosted over and useless mirrors compared to those lazy butts who don't bother scraping more than a peep hole because they lack any remote start.
We can be out and about, shopping or visiting family or friends, the JT or Grand Cherokee sitting out in the weather and I can grab my phone and start either and have them all warmed up and cleared, compared to the other people who get in and drive with windows they can't see out of and mirrors they can't use.
Yes, it IS a safety factor.

Again, some just hate what they don't understand or don't like, and often don't bother to think of how OTHERS may use a vehicle. If it doesn't apply to the short-sighted thinking, then it's worthless.

 

[Bswen]

I was driving down the street and somebody hacked me. They took over and finished driving me home from work. I was able to relax and have a cocktail, it was amazing. So glad they were able to hack me.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So let me tried to understand this issue. FCA has an IT infrastructure in their Jeep line so complex and interconnected that anything is possible and it is so complex they don’t even know what hackers are capable of doing with it. Yet, they can’t produce an electromechanical steering box that works properly and reliably in every vehicle. Witchcraft I say!

This isn’t even a first world problem, it is a tinfoil hat world problem.

Interesting point. Especially now that my NEW steering gear has wander that's at least as bad (if not a tiny bit worse) than the original.
It was fine for months..........
On the other hand, I've added weight to the front and maybe have thrown the alignment off a bit so I'm not crying foul (or is it fowl - no, that's duck) quite yet.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I was driving down the street and somebody hacked me. They took over and finished driving me home from work. I was able to relax and have a cocktail, it was amazing. So glad they were able to hack me.

That must have happened to me dozens of times - I can't remember half the trip home sometimes.

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