Do you all think quality has gone DOWN?

[Janster]

A lot more assuming going on there. No, I know of people who all but worked themselves to death, and did everything right, and things just didn't line up. Assuming "I did it so anyone can do it" is quite wrong. Ask half the country.

*Doing everything Right* is subjective to each person. Nobody does it wrong…....
We all think we’re doing it right. Can it be done better?? Absolutely!!!

I’ve also worked with people who worked themselves to death….Half of them did it on purpose to support their spending habits. The other half couldn’t pay their electric bills so they could feed their babies…. and were too proud to ask for help. Then, you have the other groups of people who don’t give a shit, don’t want to work and keep collecting unemployment and/or government assistance.

What I hate seeing…. Is people paying for their groceries with food stamps, while talking on their cell phones. People collecting free meal boxes at the food bank as they drive up in their nearly new SUV’s.

Yes…there’s always ways to help yourself…..most of which suck, but ..you gotta do what you gotta do. Most folks refuse to live in an aparement with roommates, or refuse to scrub toilets at McDonalds.

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[ShadowsPapa]

What I hate seeing…. Is people paying for their groceries with food stamps, while talking on their cell phones.

Cell phones are a necessity these days - just like the internet is.
In fact, I can't even file our sale tax returns without internet. There are things I can't do without a cell phone.
If the cell phone is like my father had, it costs less than half of what your landline would cost you. So again, judging ........ because it's a cell phone...........?
I think my father's cell phone might have cost him $20 a month or something (no, not a government subsidy)

 

[Janster]

Cell phones are a necessity these days - just like the internet is.
In fact, I can't even file our sale tax returns without internet. There are things I can't do without a cell phone.
If the cell phone is like my father had, it costs less than half of what your landline would cost you. So again, judging ........ because it's a cell phone...........?
I think my father's cell phone might have cost him $20 a month or something (no, not a government subsidy)

…...the cell phones these people were using (while using food stamps) aren’t your bare bones minimum, inexpensive cell phone.

You could say the same thing about having a vehicle…….

The point I was making.…. you get rid of expenses. Prioritize what‘s needed and what’s not. All too often - people don’t know how to prioritize and/or don’t want to get rid of certain ‘comforts’ they’ve had or think they need.

If you’re scraping by…….and I’m talking… if you’re in a position that you can’t afford to buy groceries…..or pay your rent, etc.

Find room-mates to live with to cut down on costs/rent (I did this for years when I was younger and we didn’t have internet back then). Minimize your debt…. Sell your more valuable Car/SUV and buy something that’s less expensive and costs less to insure - or better yet - find housing nearest your work and walk or ride a bike. You DO NOT need (the cost) of the internet. There are plenty of resources for internet access, including asking your family, your employer, your coworkers, your friends, and even your neighbors. THe cost of internet alone could probably buy food for you & your kids for a couple weeks (just guessing, but you get the point).

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You DO NOT need (the cost) of the internet. There are plenty of resources for internet access, including asking your family, your employer,

LOL - that's a total joke.
Right - in your small world, perhaps.

I would have to drive a minimum of 20 minutes one way - and then only during certain times, to get computer internet access. So now I'm using a vehicle to drive into a place that allows internet access freely. You need to have the computer to take with you, and you get there and realize - oh, shit, they are asking for this information now - ok, back home again.
If I didn't have internet access of some sort (slow as it is), I'd be unable to file our sales tax returns. It's required you do it online. So you take business records and so on into town with a laptop and make the drive there and back (and realizing you are on shared internet - hmmmmmmmm)

You need to realize, like I have coming from IT and dealing with a whole state of offices with internet, LAN/WAN connections and so on - it's not like you want to believe.
We can't get anything but cell data out here (yet, thanks to some grants, we'll finally have broadband access!! YEAH!) In fact, that's the case for much of the country. it's not as urban as you believe..
Family - 40 minutes away but then he's got family and uses it for his work..... employer, right - sorry, restricted access. I have yet to be in a company or work for a company or entity that allows people to come in and connect. It's RISKY and against all security policies. Any employer that allows people, employee or not, to come in and access internet literally puts their whole system at risk.
You DO need internet these days - get out a bit and see what's out there and what's required.
If you have kids in school - it's 100% required - as a parent, and as the kid doing the school work. Not having internet, not having a cell phone - it's nearly impossible in some situations these days.
I lived it for years - in IT for government and major corporate entities. It's worse now than it was back then.

Maybe they don't need an iPhone 19 or 21, but they DO need cell phones, and do need internet.
I've been through the hassle of job hunting without internet - these days, you can't do it. And what do you do - haul all of your stuff into town, and try to work in a public place, or even a library? Then drive back home and oh, gee, they want more - back into town, online, deal with that, back home again.
it's necessary - it just is. That's the reality of things out there in the broader world these days. And the U.S. is grossly behind many other countries. Worse - people living in LA, NYC and other places believe the world revolves around them and gee, everyone has full, easy access to broadband. That's very wrong -
1 in 12 do not have broadband access. We've discussed that even in these forums as people line up to get Skynet (oh, wait, maybe that's Starlink? Hmmm)
As recently as 10 years ago - when I was still working so I remember this figure- 1/4 or about 25% did NOT have broadband internet access! So please step out a bit and look at the rest of the country.
Get into a poor neighborhood, where it's needed most for poor and underprivileged kids/families and it's even worse than that. Of all people and places - they need it, but don't have access. It's still almost 1/4 of all people living in rural areas who lack broadband internet.
Kids who need it for educational purposes, adults who need it for work - even job hunting (it's required these days! No more paper), do not have access.
22.3 percent of Americans in rural areas and 27.7 percent of Americans in Tribal lands lack coverage from fixed terrestrial 25/3 Mbps broadband, as compared to only 1.5 percent of Americans in urban areas, according to a recent report by the Federal Communications Commission.
Yeah, city folks, highly populated areas, the big cities don't see past the end of their noses - they believe the whole US has access and they just don't understand - gee, we have it, everyone has it!
I have to laugh when people start talking about shows that are cable only, or subscription only - huh? Is that a TV show or something?.

 

[Janster]

LOL - that's a total joke.
Right - in your small world, perhaps.

I would have to drive a minimum of 20 minutes one way - and then only during certain times, to get computer internet access. So now I'm using a vehicle to drive into a place that allows internet access freely. You need to have the computer to take with you, and you get there and realize - oh, shit, they are asking for this information now - ok, back home again.
If I didn't have internet access of some sort (slow as it is), I'd be unable to file our sales tax returns. It's required you do it online. So you take business records and so on into town with a laptop and make the drive there and back (and realizing you are on shared internet - hmmmmmmmm)

You need to realize, like I have coming from IT and dealing with a whole state of offices with internet, LAN/WAN connections and so on - it's not like you want to believe.
We can't get anything but cell data out here (yet, thanks to some grants, we'll finally have broadband access!! YEAH!) In fact, that's the case for much of the country. it's not as urban as you believe..
Family - 40 minutes away but then he's got family and uses it for his work..... employer, right - sorry, restricted access. I have yet to be in a company or work for a company or entity that allows people to come in and connect. It's RISKY and against all security policies. Any employer that allows people, employee or not, to come in and access internet literally puts their whole system at risk.
You DO need internet these days - get out a bit and see what's out there and what's required.
If you have kids in school - it's 100% required - as a parent, and as the kid doing the school work. Not having internet, not having a cell phone - it's nearly impossible in some situations these days.
I lived it for years - in IT for government and major corporate entities. It's worse now than it was back then.

Maybe they don't need an iPhone 19 or 21, but they DO need cell phones, and do need internet.
I've been through the hassle of job hunting without internet - these days, you can't do it. And what do you do - haul all of your stuff into town, and try to work in a public place, or even a library? Then drive back home and oh, gee, they want more - back into town, online, deal with that, back home again.
it's necessary - it just is. That's the reality of things out there in the broader world these days. And the U.S. is grossly behind many other countries. Worse - people living in LA, NYC and other places believe the world revolves around them and gee, everyone has full, easy access to broadband. That's very wrong -
1 in 12 do not have broadband access. We've discussed that even in these forums as people line up to get Skynet (oh, wait, maybe that's Starlink? Hmmm)
As recently as 10 years ago - when I was still working so I remember this figure- 1/4 or about 25% did NOT have broadband internet access! So please step out a bit and look at the rest of the country.
Get into a poor neighborhood, where it's needed most for poor and underprivileged kids/families and it's even worse than that. Of all people and places - they need it, but don't have access. It's still almost 1/4 of all people living in rural areas who lack broadband internet.
Kids who need it for educational purposes, adults who need it for work - even job hunting (it's required these days! No more paper), do not have access.
22.3 percent of Americans in rural areas and 27.7 percent of Americans in Tribal lands lack coverage from fixed terrestrial 25/3 Mbps broadband, as compared to only 1.5 percent of Americans in urban areas, according to a recent report by the Federal Communications Commission.
Yeah, city folks, highly populated areas, the big cities don't see past the end of their noses - they believe the whole US has access and they just don't understand - gee, we have it, everyone has it!
I have to laugh when people start talking about shows that are cable only, or subscription only - huh? Is that a TV show or something?.

So tell me…. If you don’t have enough money to pay your rent or put food on the table… You’d pay for the internet & phone bill instead? …..because you can’t live without it…..?? C’mon…..

I hear everything you’re saying - but when push comes to shove….. your highest priorities are food, a roof over your head, followed closely by medications (if you have any) and clothes on your back.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So tell me…. If you don’t have enough money to pay your rent or put food on the table… You’d pay for the internet & phone bill instead? …..because you can’t live without it…..?? C’mon…..

I hear everything you’re saying - but when push comes to shove….. your highest priorities are food, a roof over your head, followed closely by medications (if you have any) and clothes on your back.

You'll have a phone bill anyway - at least if you are looking for work, you will. So get a cheap phone and cheap plan from one of the providers that rides the networks of others.

It's a catch-22 - if you are out of work, and want a job, you have to find a way to get internet and phone. That's where I'm fine with a safety net - unemployed but wanting to work, just like anything else, provide them the tools to get back on their feet.
To make a choice of an iPhone, expensive plans and more - while jobless and rent is a problem, no, not a good choice, IMO. Back down to cheaper stuff until on your feet again.

But having been around people much of my working life who literally were in that catch-22 situation, I know it's a struggle - need these to get a job, but need a job to pay for them, rent is an issue.
The agency I worked for helped those who had issues get phones and internet, and helped them get into the job market again.
When someone is in trouble, no fault of their own (for various reasons), it's best for society to get them the tools they need to pull themselves up and have meaningful employment.

The phone and internet are necessary for those with kids or looking for work.
But then, when you are out of work - how do you pay for such things?
That's where my wife and I step in with donations to food banks and so on of food, and cash, or charity work like quilts that get raffled off to help groups help such people get what they need to get employment.

Some people are stuck. Health issues, handicaps (and you'd think that today it should be a non-issue, but it's a major issue), fires, businesses close or lay off, I think of NC and all of those who lost it all - homes and jobs and schools, transportation, no means of communication.
I think to date the count of charity and donation quilts my wife has done either to raise money or to keep people who have lost it all warm at night) is in the 300+ range.

Here's the side you have referred to earlier - and yeah, I see those, too - heck, I worked with them!
People like I used to work with who would call in sick, and then a day later at lunch talk about the fun they had at Prairie Meadows. Month after month, off work, calling in sick, off to Prairie Meadows.
Then all of a sudden a catastrophic medical event.... their sick leave is gone, squandered at the one-arm bandits, their vacation gone, gee, gotta go out with the friends and have some fun.
So they'd go to HR and through a policy - could ask other employees to "share" their sick leave - here, I'll donate a week of my sick leave to you sort of thing.
You don't even need to ask my response - put kindly it would be "you made that bed........".
I saw it a lot.
As my first wife and I were also on programs like WIC and utility bill help for a few years, we also saw the abuses, the new vehicles that were above and beyond when even I'd want to have, collecting all they could.
I guess I've seen it from the inside out and sideways.

I feel for some - not so much for others. I'll help if through no fault of your own you've hit a dry well for a time, but you have to help yourself at the same time.
You need that phone and internet - but then, if you are jobless and have been for a while and rent is due......... then what?

Yeah, I see that.

(my first wife also volunteered for the WIC program for a few months, and helped do some of the clerical for the utilities bill help - so she also saw that most were truly needing it and thankful, and not abusing it)

 

[nivekrh]

Update: Got it back yesterday 5/19/25. I've included the parts list below of what was replaced for the 4x4 components in case anyone is interested. It looks to me like they replaced stuff inside the front differential. Case, gears, seals, bearings, shims. Fwiw, there is no longer a knocking sound when driving in 4 wheel high or low. I guess mission accomplished.

68400380AA (GASKET)
1 @ 62.12
68565404AA (GEAR KIT)
1 @ 597.45
68400 (BEARING)
1 @ 103.11
68400363AA (BEARING)
1 @ 83.93
68398739AA (SPACER)
1 @ 44.39
68400358AB (SEAL)
1 @ 30.04
68378949AB (LUBRICANT)
2 @ 152.26
68391574AA (SHIM KIT)
1 @ 375.11
68400358AB (SEAL)
1 @ 30.04
68400504AA (SHIM KIT)
1 @ 207.07
68403142AA (SHIM KIT)
1 @ 50.92
68476426AA (CASE KIT)
1 @ 677.22
Total Labor
780.00
Total Parts
2413.66

 

[Jessup]

So in addition to my engine light constantly coming on and my transmission not shifting into gear when it should, I noticed this the other day. I can see into my truck from the outside. Having an issue uploading the photo from my cell phone. But basically the back window does not have enough adhesive on it and when you stand outside in the dark and the interior lights are on you can see in. The longer I have this truck the more defects I find

 

[Stan H]

So in addition to my engine light constantly coming on and my transmission not shifting into gear when it should, I noticed this the other day. I can see into my truck from the outside. Having an issue uploading the photo from my cell phone. But basically the back window does not have enough adhesive on it and when you stand outside in the dark and the interior lights are on you can see in. The longer I have this truck the more defects I find

Its just your X-ray vision dude , just back off a notch on the Ocular Nutrition . Paul Harvey always did swear that was great stuff .
https://a.co/d/dOcl8GL

 

[NC_Overland]

Update: Got it back yesterday 5/19/25. I've included the parts list below of what was replaced for the 4x4 components in case anyone is interested. It looks to me like they replaced stuff inside the front differential. Case, gears, seals, bearings, shims. Fwiw, there is no longer a knocking sound when driving in 4 wheel high or low. I guess mission accomplished.

68400380AA (GASKET)
1 @ 62.12
68565404AA (GEAR KIT)
1 @ 597.45
68400 (BEARING)
1 @ 103.11
68400363AA (BEARING)
1 @ 83.93
68398739AA (SPACER)
1 @ 44.39
68400358AB (SEAL)
1 @ 30.04
68378949AB (LUBRICANT)
2 @ 152.26
68391574AA (SHIM KIT)
1 @ 375.11
68400358AB (SEAL)
1 @ 30.04
68400504AA (SHIM KIT)
1 @ 207.07
68403142AA (SHIM KIT)
1 @ 50.92
68476426AA (CASE KIT)
1 @ 677.22
Total Labor
780.00
Total Parts
2413.66

Mine had the rear differential replaced around 20k miles. The parts were on back order so they replaced the whole assembly. My Jeep has been very reliable ever since. I hope you have the same fate. I did a rear diff service at 60k and everything looked great. I think Dana had their own issues. When mine went out, I talked to a friend who works there and he told me they did.

 

[JonMN]

I'm a year in with my Mojave. It's been a lot more fun than the limited use Vette I traded on it. No huge quality issues, but one annoying click as the A/C adjusts.

At first glance you would think it's the driver's side blend door actuator. The dealer replaced that, a quick and easy project, but but it still clicked.

Went the next level, to quote from the invoice "
Installed 68541153AA :HOUSING: DISTRIBUTION recovered freon, removed lower dash, removed hvac
housing, swapped heater core and evaporator core into the new hvac housing. installed hvac
housing, installed dash, charged freon and replaced lost fluids"

Still clicks. Next step would require full dash removal. After seeing the video on that, I think I can live with the occasional click. Hard to trust them to do a complete dash removal, especially since I really like the dash.

My wife used to take riding lessons. Her instructor was a nice old guy from Switzerland. He used to remind her "don't let the quest for perfect get in the way of good."

 

[Mr Miami]

o

Its just your X-ray vision dude , just back off a notch on the Ocular Nutrition . Paul Harvey always did swear that was great stuff .
https://a.co/d/dOcl8GL

I bought a pair of those x-ray glasses when I was a kid. You were supposed to be able to see through women's clothing and other stuff. I guess I got a defective pair since I couldn't see crap. Maybe the Ocular Nutrition stuff works better. Great to look inside transmissions, differentials and transfer cases without taking them apart.

 

[nivekrh]

Mine had the rear differential replaced around 20k miles. The parts were on back order so they replaced the whole assembly. My Jeep has been very reliable ever since. I hope you have the same fate. I did a rear diff service at 60k and everything looked great. I think Dana had their own issues. When mine went out, I talked to a friend who works there and he told me they did.

Everything seems rock solid. Put about 400 miles on it since the repair, shifts into 4H no problem, and quiet as a mouse. Haven't tried 4L, but the dealer said they did and it was good. I probably should test that myself though.

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