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Forged V6 internals

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DAVECS1

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Already talked with hamburger about running a larger trim rotrex “c38r-112 trim” unit. This would put us in mildly modded hellcat territory without the $$$$ associated with that. I would have to look at the compressor map of the unit to see where that would put us boost wise. But I suspect somewhere around 15-18psi.
That is exactly what I want to shoot for. Bosch makes a 72lb injector that would work perfectly. The deck will have to be supported though for sure.
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ShadowsPapa

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How about semi-closed? There's engines out there now taking pretty respectable boost on that configuration (up to mid-20s for some) Subaru does up around 30 with a semi-closed deck
 
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bullitt5897

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How about semi-closed? There's engines out there now taking pretty respectable boost on that configuration (up to mid-20s for some) Subaru does up around 30 with a semi-closed deck
if your going into the block it makes no sense to do a semi closed deck. A proper closed deck conversion like I have done with VQ and VR30 motors for Nissan and Infiniti. Will retain all functionality with the added benefits of slightly better cooling efficiency and stronger resistance to cylinder deflection. We will see how far this architecture can go on an open deck. My educated guess would be limited to around 650-700whp.
 

ShadowsPapa

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if your going into the block it makes no sense to do a semi closed deck. A proper closed deck conversion like I have done with VQ and VR30 motors for Nissan and Infiniti. Will retain all functionality with the added benefits of slightly better cooling efficiency and stronger resistance to cylinder deflection. We will see how far this architecture can go on an open deck. My educated guess would be limited to around 650-700whp.
I thought the open deck design was for better cooling as the entire upper cylinder is exposed to coolant- where the heat is. Semi-closed maintains some of that coolant around the top of the cylinder.
 
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bullitt5897

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That’s not totally accurate. Check any serious boosted engine. All of them are closed deck by design and the only area that matters as for coolant is the channels leading to the heads. The physics of heat transfer can be aided with the right material. We have been doing closed deck blocks for almost 10 years now and have gone through multiple materials. We have seen zero degradation in cooling efficiency by going closed deck.
 

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ThatStinging_Jeep

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cant wait until these forged internals get released,so once me and my son blow up out motor,we can put in some forged goodies ;)
 

PDiddy

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Now I’m going to go google everything you all are taking about in this thread. It’s all over my head, but sounds intriguing.
 

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Now I’m going to go google everything you all are taking about in this thread. It’s all over my head, but sounds intriguing.
Forged vs. cast is simple - we've been using forged pistons in performance engines since - well, I first started and then I'm sure years before that.
Forged means the "grain" of the metal flows more like the grain of wood instead of a more random crystalline formation like the random grain of cast metals. Think plywood instead of particle board. NOT A GOOD EXPLANATION for sure, but may make sense, maybe. The metal is heated to plastic and shoved or forced into shape instead of molten and poured. Sort of like a blacksmith makes parts by heating and forcing them into shape.

Forged is more expensive compared to cast parts although some companies used and use certain forged parts, sort of depends. AMC used forged crankshafts and had a higher nickel content in their blocks making them tougher. But they still used cast pistons and rods.
I put hypereutectic pistons in my 70's 390 rather than forged but if I end up rebuilding my 360 or the 401 I have for my 73, it will get forged pistons and I intend some more serious power with it. The hyper pistons can be run a lot tighter in the cylinder than either forged or cast, but aren't as tough as forged. They don't suffer thermal expansion, no slap when cold, etc.

Closed deck examples are your typical old-school V8 engines from the 60s, 70s, etc. where open deck has the top of the cylinder standing alone, not "secured" to the block at the top, water jacket all the way around when the head is off. Semi-open is "attached" or "secured" to the block in places, but not fully or all around.
There's great pictures of the different types out there.
 

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bullitt5897

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Forged vs. cast is simple - we've been using forged pistons in performance engines since - well, I first started and then I'm sure years before that.
Forged means the "grain" of the metal flows more like the grain of wood instead of a more random crystalline formation like the random grain of cast metals. Think plywood instead of particle board. NOT A GOOD EXPLANATION for sure, but may make sense, maybe. The metal is heated to plastic and shoved or forced into shape instead of molten and poured. Sort of like a blacksmith makes parts by heating and forcing them into shape.

Forged is more expensive compared to cast parts although some companies used and use certain forged parts, sort of depends. AMC used forged crankshafts and had a higher nickel content in their blocks making them tougher. But they still used cast pistons and rods.
I put hypereutectic pistons in my 70's 390 rather than forged but if I end up rebuilding my 360 or the 401 I have for my 73, it will get forged pistons and I intend some more serious power with it. The hyper pistons can be run a lot tighter in the cylinder than either forged or cast, but aren't as tough as forged. They don't suffer thermal expansion, no slap when cold, etc.

Closed deck examples are your typical old-school V8 engines from the 60s, 70s, etc. where open deck has the top of the cylinder standing alone, not "secured" to the block at the top, water jacket all the way around when the head is off. Semi-open is "attached" or "secured" to the block in places, but not fully or all around.
There's great pictures of the different types out there.
good post.
 

Blade1668

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I'm not lost on forged vs cast but out of my knowledge on playing with turbos and super chargers. Damn I'd be happy with a stroked 4.0 pushed up to a 4.7. ;) before I moved I had a good 4.0 block I was going to do that with. That job is reliable and fairly simple process. Did I say I like inline 6 motors. :giggle:
But still interested
 

ShadowsPapa

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good post.
Thanks. I'm sure you can tell I'm "old school" but have watched what you are doing with modern engines - learning. The basics still transfer from then to now.

Seeing the heads blown off engines in tractor pulls and so on - some of the open deck designs make me nervous under extreme pressures, and I always figured the coolant around the entire top of the cylinder where the real heat is generated allowed for better/faster cooling or heat transfer - but apparently that's over-simplifying things. It would seem that surrounding something with coolant, uninhibited, touching the whole surface means more square inches of contact, more transfer - obviously not as there's a lot of converting going on out there where the cylinders are connected via machining processes and they're very successful. No heating problems.
 

ShadowsPapa

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I'm not lost on forged vs cast but out of my knowledge on playing with turbos and super chargers. Damn I'd be happy with a stroked 4.0 pushed up to a 4.7. ;) before I moved I had a good 4.0 block I was going to do that with. That job is reliable and fairly simple process. Did I say I like inline 6 motors. :giggle:
But still interested
LOL - twin brother here, eh? Yeah, I can relate. Give me cubes, porting, a well-designed cam and I'll give you power.

Here's a 1 of 3 made prototype 4.0 head I'd love to take time to put onto my SX4's 4.0 but it runs too danged nice as it is and it's quite a job tearing that thing down in that little engine bay. I shoe-horned things into that engine bay and I just know I'd mess up the paint and finish under there pulling a long cast iron head off and there's zero room to get to the manifold bolts.

I have another 4.0 with the later intake style (96 I believe) I can play with, I guess.
Jeep Gladiator Forged V6 internals 20190908_121057
 

Blade1668

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LOL - twin brother here, eh? Yeah, I can relate. Give me cubes, porting, a well-designed cam and I'll give you power.

Here's a 1 of 3 made prototype 4.0 head I'd love to take time to put onto my SX4's 4.0 but it runs too danged nice as it is and it's quite a job tearing that thing down in that little engine bay. I shoe-horned things into that engine bay and I just know I'd mess up the paint and finish under there pulling a long cast iron head off and there's zero room to get to the manifold bolts.

I have another 4.0 with the later intake style (96 I believe) I can play with, I guess.
20190908_121057.jpg
Nice!!

I had a buddy in GA. that stroked his 4.0 out to a 5 L wet sleeved in his XJ..... Way to much $$$$ and work in it then scrapped in for a small block chevy engine. I wish I had the money to do stuff like that. Young we want more power and speed then some of us then want more MPG's n power. :like: I never really needed more speed or lacked power in my MJ, XJ or LJ just maybe another gear higher in transmission in LJ like a over over drive ☺
Thankfully I got the I wanna go fast out of me in Europe... A speeding ticket for 164 kph in my MJ...... some Autobahn's have speed limits!
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