Front Axle Disconnect - 5 Weeks and still no fix!

[robertmkc]

So I'm pretty sure I have the front axle disconnect issue. If I'm going under 8mph, it makes that rotational rubbing/barking noise. The pitch is affected by speed. It also only seems to show up when it's warmer weather. Anything over 50F makes it much more reliable to recreate. I can, with 100% consistency, make the noise go away by shifting into 4H. Moving back into 2H, the noise will return. I'm very confident the issue is the FAD.

So here's the long story: I bought this thing on the 19th of December. Everything was great, no issues. We drove it 8 hours to Dallas and noticed the noise one evening while in a parking lot. Loud enough that people were looking to see what the noise was. Brought it to a local dealer down there, they heard the noise, thought it was a warped rotor and/or bad bearing and hub. They said the rotor was on national backorder, but they replaced the front passenger hub. Noise persisted, but they said it was safe to drive back home.

Brought it back to the dealer where I purchased it. Dropped it off with the paperwork from the dealership in Dallas that handled the issue originally. They called me the next day, unable to recreate, said the problem probably fixed itself. I picked up the Jeep, drove about 12 feet out of the parking lot and it started squeaking. I grabbed the service manager and made him take a ride. We were able to get it to make the noise, and he said they'd get it knocked out. They called me the next day to let me know they used microphones and isolated the noise to the rear locker and that they needed to replace the rear diff. They ordered a new axle and replaced the entire thing.

Finally, I go pick up my Gladiator. They assured me the problem was resolved. Again I made it 12 feet out the door before I heard it again. I did a u-turn and dropped it off again, letting them know it wasn't resolved. I also showed them a video from this forum at that time, explaining the FAD issue. They called me again the next day, unable to hear the noise and informed me that it was probably the shocks or something squeaking and I couldn't tell the difference with my untrained ears. I picked back up the Jeep and drove the service manager around the parking lot again... with no success.

Of course now the noise is back. It warmed up a bit the other day and I was able to record the sound with my phone. I sent an email to my service rep, with links to the video. I've been trying to get back with them for almost a week to make sure he saw the video. I sent links to threads on this forum about the 'known' issue... they claim they read everything.

I finally got him on the phone a few minutes ago, they said the sound in the video was inconclusive, but he's still going to talk to the regional service manager to see how they should proceed.

Brand new Jeep, it was out of commission for 3 of the first 5 weeks that I've had this thing, but squeaking away when I do drive it. At one point, I was ready to just make them return the damned thing... and now that they have to "run it up the chain" to fix something that appears to be pretty common, I'm at that point again. I hate that I'm being told that it's either not able to be recreated or that it's normal Jeep noise. They pulled another Mojave off their lot and drove it and they told me it makes the same noise, so that's probably just how they are!

I guess the point of my long rant is this: Has anyone seen a definitive TSB or something that I can show these guys? I don't know why they are so hesitant to believe me, and they definitely don't want advice from forums on the internet. Is that pretty common with all repair shops, or just mine?

Here's a link to a video.

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[Hootbro]

Is that pretty common with all repair shops, or just mine?

Your dealership service experience is not unusual. Many treat the customers as idiots and third party (forum) advice is not something they take in until they have no other choice and all their miss-diagnosed attempts have failed.

Part of the problem is the warranty process between FCA/Stellantis and the dealership does not incentivize them to properly take the time to diagnose the exact issue and rewards parts cannon behavior over real troubleshooting. If a paid out of your pocket non-warranty visit, probably will get down to root cause quicker.

I got no solutions other than keep working your current dealership or find another to have better odds of resolution.

 

[jac04]

If it goes away when you engage 4wd, then the focus should 100% be on the front axle disconnect. No idea why the dealership would ignore this huge piece of evidence. We need to think about what changes with the FAD system when going from 2wd to 4wd.

In 2wd, going forward:
LH axle shaft turns forward.
Front driveshaft is stationary.
RH outer axle shaft turns forward.
RH inner axle shaft turns backward.
Differential spider gears are turning, and that is why RH inner shaft turns backward.
Relative motion between the RH inner & outer axle shafts is seen by a bushing at the inner/outer shaft interface. Bushing is shown as Item 3 in sketch below.

In 4wd, going forward:
LH axle shaft turns forward.
Front driveshaft turns.
RH outer axle shaft turns forward.
RH inner axle shaft turns forward wince FAD sleeve (Item 6 below) locks them together.
Differential spider gears are not turning (assuming going straight ahead).
NO relative motion between the RH inner & outer axle shafts at Item 3 bushing.

So, if something makes noise in 2wd but not 4wd, it could be related to The Item 3 bushing below. IIRC, I read about someone having an issue with this bushing where it was out of tolerance and replaced, and also where someone had it greased and the noise went away.

 

[jac04]

Thinking about this more ...

If your issue is a 'dry' Item 3 bushing, which it kind of sounds like to me, you could potentially get lubricant to it as follows:
Get the LH side of the vehicle as high as possible, and the RH as low as possible.
Overfill the diff with lubricant.
Rotate the RH tire to help work oil into the bushing.

The RH oil seal is outboard of the FAD coupling. So, if you can flood this area with oil, it would get into the bushing area. Normally, the RH intermediate shaft bearing gets some 'splash' lube, but I can definitely see the oil not getting to the bushing under normal conditions.

You could also try removing the FAD actuator, then drizzling oil around the Item 3 bushing while rotating the RH front tire. That might be a simpler way.

The sketch below shows the basic layout of the FAD, although it shows the older vacuum actuated version. But is shows you the layout of the bearing, collar & seal. Inner axle shaft = Intermediate Axle Shaft.

 

[dcmdon]

Your dealership service experience is not unusual. Many treat the customers as idiots and third part (forum) advice is not something they take in until they have no other choice and all their miss-diagnosed attempts have failed.

Part of the problem is the warranty process between FCA/Stellantis and the dealership does not incentivize them to properly take the time to diagnose the exact issue and rewards parts cannon behavior over real troubleshooting. If a paid out of your pocket non-warranty visit, probably will get down to root cause quicker.

I got no solutions other than keep working your current dealership or find another to have better odds of resolution.

This is exactly right. If you were paying and paid for a rear axle and it didn't solve the problem there would be trouble. (I'd stop payment on my credit card charge)

In this case Stelantis won't know.

The flat rate system is to blame. Techs aren't paid to diagnose, they are paid to change parts.

 

[PandA.B]

I literally just picked up my 2021 from the service center for this exact noise. Sub-800 miles on the thing (bought 28 Dec 21) when it started. Exact same: low speed, direct correlation to wheel speed, stop/return immediately when shifting between 4H/2H. I mentioned ALL of these details when I dropped it off. Also mentioned all the online dialog on the topic and she practically spit at me and said " we have techs that diagnose, not the internet."

Called me later to tell me it was good to go; the bolts on the ball joint weren't to spec so they re-torqued them and "put some thread-lock on there so it won't happen again" and that there was even a TSB on just such an issue.

It didn't start immediately but started up 5 minutes later. Only difference for me is that it IS cold and does it (been 20s-40s lately). I can't imagine it if it gets worse with warmer weather.

 

[Average Oregonian]

Very sorry to hear about your dealership experience. In the past I have had some luck with providing a typed letter with an explanation for each service item, especially if it's something that is difficult to reproduce. I'll add part numbers, TSB references, sales codes or photos or whatever the relevant info is. There is often a communication disconnect between the service desk and the back of the shop, and whatever you can do to help bridge it is beneficial. I'll usually give them a copy at check-in and leave a copy in the truck. There's always some ego involved in diagnostics, but the right tech will be happy to have more info to work from if it helps them get the job done quickly and get a broken truck out of their bay.

 

[jac04]

More information on FAD related noise:
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/front-axle-disconnect.28063/

 

[Old Skool]

Hi all just a quick opinion question ?? as we all can agree the Jeep faithfull would have had a big problem had Jeep gone to “IFS”???
can we make the argument that compared to the manual locking hubs of yester year were superior to this “ FAD” compromise??
Would the Jeep faithfull have rejoiced if the Wranglers and Gladiators came from the factory with manual hubs ???? More reliable more robust ?? Part of heritage of Jeep is its ruggedness…. I’ve seen many videos on this “FAD” system seems like it complicates the front axle.

 

[jac04]

You can't sell a 4wd vehicle to the masses with manual locking hubs. Your average owner doesn't want to get out and manually lock front hubs. Plus, you can't have Selec-Trac with manual locking hubs.

 

[Tmunson]

So I'm pretty sure I have the front axle disconnect issue. If I'm going under 8mph, it makes that rotational rubbing/barking noise. The pitch is affected by speed. It also only seems to show up when it's warmer weather. Anything over 50F makes it much more reliable to recreate. I can, with 100% consistency, make the noise go away by shifting into 4H. Moving back into 2H, the noise will return. I'm very confident the issue is the FAD.

So here's the long story: I bought this thing on the 19th of December. Everything was great, no issues. We drove it 8 hours to Dallas and noticed the noise one evening while in a parking lot. Loud enough that people were looking to see what the noise was. Brought it to a local dealer down there, they heard the noise, thought it was a warped rotor and/or bad bearing and hub. They said the rotor was on national backorder, but they replaced the front passenger hub. Noise persisted, but they said it was safe to drive back home.

Brought it back to the dealer where I purchased it. Dropped it off with the paperwork from the dealership in Dallas that handled the issue originally. They called me the next day, unable to recreate, said the problem probably fixed itself. I picked up the Jeep, drove about 12 feet out of the parking lot and it started squeaking. I grabbed the service manager and made him take a ride. We were able to get it to make the noise, and he said they'd get it knocked out. They called me the next day to let me know they used microphones and isolated the noise to the rear locker and that they needed to replace the rear diff. They ordered a new axle and replaced the entire thing.

Finally, I go pick up my Gladiator. They assured me the problem was resolved. Again I made it 12 feet out the door before I heard it again. I did a u-turn and dropped it off again, letting them know it wasn't resolved. I also showed them a video from this forum at that time, explaining the FAD issue. They called me again the next day, unable to hear the noise and informed me that it was probably the shocks or something squeaking and I couldn't tell the difference with my untrained ears. I picked back up the Jeep and drove the service manager around the parking lot again... with no success.

Of course now the noise is back. It warmed up a bit the other day and I was able to record the sound with my phone. I sent an email to my service rep, with links to the video. I've been trying to get back with them for almost a week to make sure he saw the video. I sent links to threads on this forum about the 'known' issue... they claim they read everything.

I finally got him on the phone a few minutes ago, they said the sound in the video was inconclusive, but he's still going to talk to the regional service manager to see how they should proceed.

Brand new Jeep, it was out of commission for 3 of the first 5 weeks that I've had this thing, but squeaking away when I do drive it. At one point, I was ready to just make them return the damned thing... and now that they have to "run it up the chain" to fix something that appears to be pretty common, I'm at that point again. I hate that I'm being told that it's either not able to be recreated or that it's normal Jeep noise. They pulled another Mojave off their lot and drove it and they told me it makes the same noise, so that's probably just how they are!

I guess the point of my long rant is this: Has anyone seen a definitive TSB or something that I can show these guys? I don't know why they are so hesitant to believe me, and they definitely don't want advice from forums on the internet. Is that pretty common with all repair shops, or just mine?

Here's a link to a video.

Man… I am going through roughly the same issue with my 2021 Gladiator. Been in the shop for the last month and they are reluctant to fix the FAD because they are not “certain” is the issue. Tired of it. So… I just offered to pay up front for them to perform the FAD STAR report fix and if it fixes it they can reimburse me for it then. This is ridiculous.

 

[robertmkc]

So just as a follow up to this. They never replaced it. As I kept driving, the noise became less frequent. Haven't heard a squeak since January shortly after creating this thread. So either that bushing has worn in, it self lubricated, or I'm just setting up for some sort of disaster soon... I don't know. Either way, it doesn't squeak, so I'm happy I guess.

 

[rharr]

how about changing the axle oil and see how much metal is in it? That should give you an idea of what to expect.

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