Frustration is an understatement......

[ShadowsPapa]

It was stated to express a point of how customer service used to be the main priority. It is NOT unreasonable to expect a perfectly running vehicle when you buy brand new. So, yes, Jeep does owe me.

Customer service? What's that - gotta go look that up. Was that something from years ago?
I get ya now, sorry. Misread your intent.

Yes, it should be exactly what's advertised as advertised.
We have a mix of problems these days - dealership service - as shown by another member who took it to dealer one who said no warranty, you will pay for repairs and an alternator, and dealer 2 said - no problem, it's fixed, all warranty and your alternator was fine.
The other part of the caustic mix - shortages of parts, labor and transportation. I am not putting out blame for any of that, just saying what we're seeing shortages of. Not going to get into any causes or reasons or whatever.
Then you get an uneducated or uncaring (take your pick) shop that doesn't know what the heck they are doing PLUS waiting on parts - and it all adds up.

Still, good luck on the pan- I've worked in the industry for decades, connections with manufacturing (father) and jobs (CCC and others) and parts and shops (other jobs) and with the complications of lack of labor, transportation and parts shortages......

I've seen "why don't they use parts for fixing existing instead of building new"
I bet you know the answer........

OK, Jeep experts who know the industry extremely well - WHO makes these transmissions? Jeep themselves UNDER LICENSE, or are they sourced outside of the MOPAR family??
See where that may be going?

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[red/green hawk]

Sorry for your probs. To be fair, customer service seems to suck from all brands.

I used to think this but not so sure now. Local Jeep dealerships are horrible and I thought it was the autogroup they are a part of but the same group owns a Toyota dealership that is 2nd to none according to a couple close acquaintances.

It's like going from this...

To this...

 

[Kilroy1941]

No, they work for Stellantis and go to dealerships in the state with a large rain replicating system that fits over two vehicles. He tests, records and takes photographs for "Chrysler" Dealership has replaced many windows in these JTs. It definitely is a problem a lot of us are suffering with.

 

[Kilroy1941]

The "leak specialist" ? Huh ? Does he have a degree in leakology?

You mean the guy with slightly better troubleshooting skills than the rest of the knuckle draggers at the dealership ?

"Leak specialist said." Ok. Next time your there, ask him the winning lottery numbers for me. Same chance of him being correct.

Wow bad mood today?, no as explained in another quote. Works for Stellantis going to larger dealerships and documents the issue. Top notch dealership, has replaced many Jt rear windows, starting from launch edition to current. They stated it was always one of three manufacturing issues that often lead to the other. 1. The inner frame for the window cracks due to vibration causing the seal to pull away over time or when installed too much pressure was used at the factory causing the start of the crack in the first place. 2. Seal was actually fused to or stuck to glass from a flaw in the process. 3. Too much pressure and mis-alignment causes the seal to fold on it's self when installed at the factory.

 

[dcmdon]

As someone who has worked as a parts driver, service writer, service tech, salesman and finance guy, I'm saddened to tell you that how you present to the service dept makes a big difference in how well they take care of you.

When we bought my wife's new Volvo a few years ago we had a few issues pop up in the first 10k miles. It was all minor stuff, but it was also the kind of stuff where a flat rate tech is likely to say "could not duplicate".

So on one trip I took the service manager for a ride and had him acknowledge that he heard the problem.

On another visit I told the service writer that I would be waiting with the car and if the tech had any trouble replicating the problem he should come see me.

In both cases the problems were fixed on the first visit.

Part of the problem is that in a flat rate service department, technicians aren't really paid to diagnose problems. So they half ass it. They are paid to change parts. So they'd rather do a terrible job diagnosing the problem, then not really test drive the car, and cross their fingers that it solves the problem.

One other thing I wonder about is if the fact that the service writers can pick up that I know how to fix cars, makes them realize that they can't feed me a load of crap. Because I never seem to get any of the crap that a lot of people complain about.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

As someone who has worked as a parts driver, service writer, service tech, salesman and finance guy, I'm saddened to tell you that how you present to the service dept makes a big difference in how well they take care of you.

When we bought my wife's new Volvo a few years ago we had a few issues pop up in the first 10k miles. It was all minor stuff, but it was also the kind of stuff where a flat rate tech is likely to say "could not duplicate".

So on one trip I took the service manager for a ride and had him acknowledge that he heard the problem.

On another visit I told the service writer that I would be waiting with the car and if the tech had any trouble replicating the problem he should come see me.

In both cases the problems were fixed on the first visit.

Part of the problem is that in a flat rate service department, technicians aren't really paid to diagnose problems. So they half ass it. They are paid to change parts. So they'd rather do a terrible job diagnosing the problem, then not really test drive the car, and cross their fingers that it solves the problem.

One other thing I wonder about is if the fact that the service writers can pick up that I know how to fix cars, makes them realize that they can't feed me a load of crap. Because I never seem to get any of the crap that a lot of people complain about.

When I installed the MOPAR trailer brake controller and got the ABS and other errors, I went to the dealer with it. I duplicated it there in the staging area. I said I'd wait - at least until something was figured out. I think it was something like 2 hours or more later the mechanic came to me in the waiting area and showed me the errors it was recording, etc. and said he'd talked to the Jeep parts people (not at their place, but some central place) and the parts people told him what the instructions said - that it needed a harness. He also said he had contacted the STAR team with details, everything I had done, everything he had done, and they had never heard of it, it was news to them (and they were apparently kicking it up for review?) Anyway, the poor guy spent literally hours on it - I think in total with our discussions and his phone calls and working with my truck it was something like 3 hours in the end. No charge.

When I took my wife's 2021 WK2 in for the misfire - I gave them printouts of the logs I'd gotten from it (which triggered a sort of meeting with the service writer, manager and a tech looking over my notes and wondering how I got the info). I left the Jeep with them - the spent quite a bit of time on it and finally found a TSB that was about all that matched the diagnostics logs I gave them. Spark plugs. They changed plugs per TSB. Aside from the R&R intake, replace plugs, I am thinking they had a good hour or even two because they tried to duplicate the misfire (they finally did get it to miss ONCE!) and scoured all of the bulletins for misfires - ignition. They didn't give up.

My steering issues - twice they replaced the steering gear, no arguments, no back and forth. They were even the ones that decided it needed the steering gear the second time. I simply gave them the symptoms and asked them to check the alignment (purposely leaving it wide open) That was the time the service writer even told ME - no, these trucks handle and drive great, better than anything Jeep has done in the past.

I've sort of developed a repour with them in a way. They know my history, I've tried to provide every detail I could, any of my own diagnosis, the logs as mentioned above and work with them more as a partner. The service writers now know what I know.

I did get push-back on the tonneau cover - until I did my own research, gathered pictures of the covers on forum members' trucks and worked with JeepCares - who connected me with a specialist. When I went in that time (that was before all the other stuff) the service writer I HAD been working with argued and said "they are all that way". Then I mentioned STAR, the Jeep support team, the number JeepCares gave me and told them they should call that number as they would work with 'em on this. Another guy in there overheard the discussion and said "yeah, I've heard of this - they have an entire team dedicated to that sort of support" and that was that....... I ended up with a different service writer and things totally changed after that.

 

[DBravo]

Yeah, after months and months of them saying it's not a problem, it is supposed to do that, it's programmed to refresh, blah blah, then there's a TSB - and to make it harder NHTSA doesn't even have it posted yet, but it was released in MAY?

It's not been a "problem" for me - it has only done it on one LONG trip and maybe once or twice otherwise, so it's not a big deal - but.............




Why all? Mine is a November 2019 build, almost 19,000 miles, not a drop. And I pressure wash it fairly regularly and even aim the nozzle at all windows.
I'm curious why you say "will all eventually leak". Well, with a long enough timeline, yeah, I mean, my 70 Javelin front and rear glass did start leaking about 2005.

But seriously- I'm curious, as many thousands of us have not seen leaks.

26,500 miles - no leaks

 

[Kilroy1941]

Since some people apparently need an explanation on who these teams are that work for Stellantis and they did mention that.......
."They stated it was always one of three manufacturing issues that often lead to the other. 1. The inner frame for the window cracks due to vibration causing the seal to pull away over time or when installed too much pressure was used at the factory causing the start of the crack in the first place. 2. Seal was actually fused to or stuck to glass from a flaw in the process. 3. Too much pressure and mis-alignment causes the seal to fold on it's self when installed at the factory."

 

[Terry]

Yeah, after months and months of them saying it's not a problem, it is supposed to do that, it's programmed to refresh, blah blah, then there's a TSB - and to make it harder NHTSA doesn't even have it posted yet, but it was released in MAY?

It's not been a "problem" for me - it has only done it on one LONG trip and maybe once or twice otherwise, so it's not a big deal - but.............




Why all? Mine is a November 2019 build, almost 19,000 miles, not a drop. And I pressure wash it fairly regularly and even aim the nozzle at all windows.
I'm curious why you say "will all eventually leak". Well, with a long enough timeline, yeah, I mean, my 70 Javelin front and rear glass did start leaking about 2005.

But seriously- I'm curious, as many thousands of us have not seen leaks.

I agree. My 2020 has never leaked anywhere, and the service I have received from Jeep is very good. 29,000 miles and no problems with anytrhing.... nothing. Still running the original tires, brakes are good and never any problem with steering.

 

[KX L]

The "leak specialist" ? Huh ? Does he have a degree in leakology?

You mean the guy with slightly better troubleshooting skills than the rest of the knuckle draggers at the dealership ?

"Leak specialist said." Ok. Next time your there, ask him the winning lottery numbers for me. Same chance of him being correct.

@MrZappo and @Kilroy1941 and @ShadowsPapa. Seemed quite clear to me that Kilroy said the leak specialists come from Stellantis, set up a large rain apparatus for 2 vehicles at once and bring cameras etc.

Seems to me if we want to flame someone we should probably reread their post very slowly and ensure we understand it before "flame on". As always I love the forum and appreciate comments whether I agree with them or not.

 

[MrZappo]

@MrZappo and @Kilroy1941 and @ShadowsPapa. Seemed quite clear to me that Kilroy said the leak specialists come from Stellantis, set up a large rain apparatus for 2 vehicles at once and bring cameras etc.

Seems to me if we want to flame someone we should probably reread their post very slowly and ensure we understand it before "flame on". As always I love the forum and appreciate comments whether I agree with them or not.

I digress ...

Just having a little bit of fun ... Had I ben flaming (which I never really do), there would be no question ...

But I am glad that he indeed has found a true leak specialist ... And it seems that we forum members should also celebrate that we now have a flame specialist ...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

@MrZappo and @Kilroy1941 and @ShadowsPapa. Seemed quite clear to me that Kilroy said the leak specialists come from Stellantis, set up a large rain apparatus for 2 vehicles at once and bring cameras etc.

Seems to me if we want to flame someone we should probably reread their post very slowly and ensure we understand it before "flame on". As always I love the forum and appreciate comments whether I agree with them or not.

Please show where I flamed kilroy................I was simply amazed that anyone could say they'd all leak and seriously wondered what he based that on (since things change over time - parts and processes). (posts in the forum contradict the "all will leak" up to this point as the vast majority don't) There was one comment I made joking about the specialist - and put J/K under it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I digress ...

Just having a little bit of fun ... Had I ben flaming (which I never really do), there would be no question ...

But I am glad that he indeed has found a true leak specialist ... And it seems that we forum members should also celebrate that we now have a flame specialist ...

His original post was edited later to add the bit about Stelantis - so that's why it looks so bad. Originally it was just a guy at the dealership. So.......... it now looks worse.

 

[Kilroy1941]

His original post was edited later to add the bit about Stelantis - so that's why it looks so bad. Originally it was just a guy at the dealership. So.......... it now looks worse.

Of course, figured it didn't need further detail at the time, apparently it did since others took it as a joke, didn't see a JK and others seemed serious. This is why I added more, with so many window replacements I figured others had run into these company testers as well. His words were "all" to me but to be fair he mentioned only up to 21, I heard from other owners there are possible new parts numbers. I hope others of us without this most likely new part numbers don't get leaks but as was stated. Either Install process/part being defective are very high for 19-20 and whenever there may have been a switch over for 21.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Of course, figured it didn't need further detail at the time, apparently it did since others took it as a joke, didn't see a JK and others seemed serious. This is why I added more, with so many window replacements I figured others had run into these company testers as well. His words were "all" to me but to be fair he mentioned only up to 21, I heard from other owners there are possible new parts numbers. I hope others of us without this most likely new part numbers don't get leaks but as was stated. Either Install process/part being defective are very high for 19-20 and whenever there may have been a switch over for 21.

Honestly - I bet most of us had never heard of such a thing even if you had put the fact he wasn't a dealership direct employee in there. You would never see Jeep send such a person to any dealership in Iowa LOL - we're lucky to find common car parts here. Truck shops that do gear work on a regular basis? Right - come on folks, this is IOWA.
So Jeep corporate sending someone out? WOW! Are you kidding? Gotta be a joke! (just making an example here..........)
Unheard of!
And I try to wrap my head around it - sending a person around the country, even around a region, and shipping the equipment you describe? Crazy expensive, the logistics these days with shipping common groceries and car parts being all but impossible at times - to send a guy around with that sort of equipment checking leaks? WOW.
So - see where we may be coming from?
Most places don't even have transmission experts and you mention a leak specialist?

But I look at your location - NY, where the money is, where the concentration of people are, bigger fancier dealerships, shops bringing in far far more per hours than here - it must be worth corporate's efforts. But still - the logistics of sending a person and equipment of that size around must be a big deal.

Hope that explains why it just seemed like - you're joking, right?
And of course - the thought of a dealership having such a person when many fail at gear changes, well............

I don't think anyone meant anything personal deliberately - or hope not.

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