GDE is back and making EPA compliant tune!

[tampahoosier]

I think everyone needs to take a step back here. Not really sure why we're arguing... @biodiesel's point is that he has not seen a situation where the warranty has been voided due to the GDE tune. That's it.

Banks, Mr. Tuning, GDE, whatever--they're all tunes. The fact is, if something goes wrong, and you have one of the tunes, you MAY not be able to get it covered under warranty. He's seen situations where the dealer hasn't been able to determine if there was a tune installed, thus the warranty was still intact. That's just how these things go.

Because he claims GDE is undetectable and will not void your warranty. That claim is completely different than what you are saying, which echos the rest of us. One persons experience is not the truth or fact.

Yes they are all tunes and if something goes wrong you may be screwed. That is exactly what we are saying and that is exactly what he is arguing against. I applaud you for playing mediator but you may have inadvertently backed up what we are all saying.

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[cecaa850]

He's also stated that one dealer can't tell what another dealer has done to your vehicle which is patently false. If a warranty claim has been paid every other dealer can see what was done and when.

 

[cecaa850]

I think everyone needs to take a step back here. Not really sure why we're arguing... @biodiesel's point is that he has not seen a situation where the warranty has been voided due to the GDE tune. That's it.

My problem is the insinuation that it's 100% impossible to have a warranty claim denied due to this tune. The uninformed may take that as gospel and find themselves in a bind down the road.

 

[biodiesel]

Because he claims GDE is undetectable and will not void your warranty. That claim is completely different than what you are saying, which echos the rest of us. One persons experience is not the truth or fact.

You are misconstruing my words. You need to go back and read this thread from the beginning. Here's what I said on January 28th:

That's not an easy question to answer. My dealer doesn't void warranty because of a tuner, but I'm sure that some might. However, the dealer has to prove that the tune itself caused the damage. With that said, the tune can't be easily detected. I can simply reflash back to the stock tune before warranty work and the dealer can't tell I had a tune. So from that perspective, you can say the GDE tune is pretty much undetectable with the dealer's tool. I've never heard of someone reporting they had their warranty voided due to GDE tune.

Anything is possible. But what is the possibility of a warranty denial due to a GDE tune that's been flashed back to stock? 0.1%? 0.01%? 0.001%?

That's why I've said people need to make decisions they are comfortable with.

 

[tampahoosier]

You are misconstruing my words. You need to go back and read this thread from the beginning. Here's what I said on January 28th:




Anything is possible. But what is the possibility of a warranty denial due to a GDE tune that's been flashed back to stock? 0.1%? 0.01%? 0.001%?

That's why I've said people need to make decisions they are comfortable with.

Are you serious dude?? Your exact text that YOU just re-quoted me says:

I can simply reflash back to the stock tune before warranty work and the dealer can't tell I had a tune. So from that perspective, you can say the GDE tune is pretty much undetectable with the dealer's tool.

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here but pretty sure that's not misconstruing your words. You are all over the place.

Anything is possible. But what is the possibility of a warranty denial due to a GDE tune that's been flashed back to stock? 0.1%? 0.01%? 0.001%?

Yes thank you for saying that, anything IS possible. It could also be a 1% or 10% chance.

 

[biodiesel]

He's also stated that one dealer can't tell what another dealer has done to your vehicle which is patently false. If a warranty claim has been paid every other dealer can see what was done and when.

You need to go back and reread what I said. The dealer network documents and records recall, TSB, and Mopar service contracts. The dealer network does not always document all the work being performed. I was mostly referring to a software download failure, but that extends to other warranty work.

When I had the P20E9 (Reductant Pressure to High), the dealer made several attempts to fix it. Attempt #1, the dealer checked the DEF line and cleared the code. Attempt #2, the dealer dropped and flushed the DEF tank. Attempt #3, the dealer was about to replace the DEF pump (which was approved by FCA), but a judge shutdown the dealership due to a pending lawsuit dealing with financial dealings.

Naturally, I was forced to take the truck to a second dealer. I figured the dealer could see what steps had been taken. Outside of recalls, TSBs, and some warranty work, they said the dealer network doesn't keep track of all the details. They did their own diagnoses and said the DEF injector was clogged. I've never had an issue since then.

Another example that we see on the forum is when warranty is denied at one dealership and approved at a different dealership. In some cases, FCA will support the warranty denial of dealership #1, then turnaround and approve the warranty claim at dealership #2. This shows that the dealer network isn't as sophisticated as one might assume.

 

[biodiesel]

My problem is the insinuation that it's 100% impossible to have a warranty claim denied due to this tune. The uninformed may take that as gospel and find themselves in a bind down the road.

Nobody, including myself, has made that claim.

 

[cecaa850]

Nobody, including myself, has made that claim.

Google" insinuation".

 

[cecaa850]

You need to go back and reread what I said. The dealer network documents and records recall, TSB, and Mopar service contracts They dealer network does not always document all the work being performed. I was mostly referring to a software download failure, but that extends to other warranty work.

When I had the P20E9 (Reductant Pressure to High), the dealer made several attempts to fix it. Attempt #1, the dealer checked the DEF line and cleared the code. Attempt #2, the dealer dropped and flushed the DEF tank. Attempt #3, the dealer was about to replace the DEF pump (which was approved by FCA), but a judge shutdown the dealership due to a pending lawsuit dealing with financial dealings.

Naturally, I was forced to take the truck to a second dealer. I figured the dealer could see what steps had been taken. Outside of recalls, TSBs, and some warranty work, they said the dealer network doesn't keep track of all the details. They did their own diagnoses and said the DEF injector was clogged. I've never had an issue since then.

Another example that we see on the forum is when warranty is denied at one dealership and approved at a different dealership. In some cases, FCA will support the warranty denial of dealership #1, then turnaround and approve the warranty claim at dealership #2. This shows that the dealer network isn't as sophisticated as one might assume.

Any time Ram is charged for a warranty repair other dealers can see it. If you bring your vehicle to a second dealership prior to the first dealerships claim being paid than the second dealership can't see it. That's the only time it's not visible. Corporate can see customer pay and internal repair orders at individual dealerships as well.

Dealerships can't place a restriction on your vehicle and deny coverage. Only corporate can do that. Once that happens no one at any dealership can get a warranty claim paid for the area that the warranty has been restricted on. Once corporate restricts a vehicle, they NEVER reverse it just because it was brought to another store.

Software flash failures are rare to almost non existent. In addition, if a dealer sees that there was a flash on your vehicle right before it was brought in for service and there's no warranty record of a flash what do you suppose they think has happened?

 

[biodiesel]

I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here

Yes, I think you're missing the point. @FutureOdin, understands it clearly. The dealer tool is limited to seeing flashes. The tool cannot see that you had a tune. That's a fact. I asked a dealer diesel tech about flashes. He said if they are having an issue with diagnosing a repair, or need approval, they will open a star case for technical assistance. This when the tech/service advisor is talking to a technical rep at Stellantis. The Stellantis tech could request the dealer tech to look at the flash count. I asked if that has ever happened to him? He said, "no" because flash counts do not give you enough information. He said if a tune is detected while scanning, then an automatic warranty denial could be issued, but typically that only happens if the Stellantis tech believes the tune could contribute to the failure. For example, a water pump failure is not tune related.

This why the EcoDiesel has been unique. FCA/Stellantis has made it easy for tuners to revert back to stock and not leave a mark except a flash count. There are other makes and models that records much more than a count, and perhaps that's where some of the confusion is coming from.

FCA and Stellantis sells blank ECMs for the EcoDiesel. Why would they do that? That makes it easy for a tuner to make their own tune, install the tuned ECM into the vehicle, and have a fully tuned vehicle that is not detectable with the dealer tool. When warranty work is being performed, the EcoDiesel owner can reinstall the stock ECM.

The reason why many EcoDiesel owners keep the stock ECM is mostly due to protecting their tune from being erased. The added benefit to keeping the stock ECM is to keep the dealer from seeing a tune.

 

[cecaa850]

Be aware that the manufacturer has access to more information than your tech is aware of.

 

[biodiesel]

Once corporate restricts a vehicle, they NEVER reverse it just because it was brought to another store.

That's not true. We've seen a few times on the forum where the dealer will seek multiple requests from FCA for a warranty approval and get denied by an FCA representative. The EcoDiesel owner will take their vehicle to a different dealer and get approval from a different FCA representative. And yes, I'm talking about a new engine.

We've also seen RamCares get involved and help reverse a warranty denial. Unfortunately, FCA/Stellantis relies heavily on the dealerships for information. The low level people at FCA are not always the most competent either.

There was one guy on the forum who lost his engine at 103,000 miles. He was denied warranty by FCA. But through his star case, FCA reversed their decision and approved the engine warranty as long as the customer paid for labor. The EcoDiesel owner agreed. In that case, FCA had no reason to accept his warranty request. My guess is that FCA knows they have a spun bearing issue with certain engines, so they decided to work with the customer.

Software flash failures are rare to almost non existent.

I agree that it is probably rare, although, it does happens. We've had two people on the forum who had issues after getting the W58 software update. In at least one of those cases, the dealer was going to reflash since the first update might not have loaded properly.

In addition, if a dealer sees that there was a flash on your vehicle right before it was brought in for service and there's no warranty record of a flash what do you suppose they think has happened?

Again, the dealer can only see a flash count, not a time or date that each flash took place.

 

[cecaa850]

A denial for warranty coverage due to mileage and a restricted vehicle are two totally different scenarios. You're making an argument using two things that are totally unrelated to each other. This reminds me of an old saying, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

 

[biodiesel]

A denial for warranty coverage due to mileage and a restricted vehicle are two totally different scenarios. You're making an argument using two things that are totally unrelated to each other. This reminds me of an old saying, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

You said once corporate restricts a vehicle, they NEVER reverse it, so I gave you three examples where that's not true, both inside and outside of warranty.

 

[cecaa850]

You said once corporate restricts a vehicle, they NEVER reverse it, so I gave you three examples where that's not true, both inside and outside of warranty.

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. You're talking apples and oranges. If a dealer doesn't perform a warranty repair because something is out of of the time/mileage criteria and another one does that's called "goodwill" It has NOTHING to do with a scenario whereas a warranty is flagged or restricted due to a modification.

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