Get creative challenge. Bye bye push to start button.

[Professor_Chaos]

Still trying to hone in on an acceptable solution. Is it strictly the "proximity" part that gives you heartburn? If the fix was to use the JK keyed ignition with the chip in the key, would that satisfy?

No. My whole beef is I want to be able to bypass the entire ignition system.

I get it if nobody else has the interest, just getting tired of defending my interest.

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[WILDHOBO]

I am sure gl

Probably not willing to go to that extent.

I get computer control etc... but at the end of the day it is a mechanical engine that can be started in a mechanical way.

I'm not saying it is easy or smart or won't effect things or this that or the other.

I get the objections and all. I really do.

Really.

I am simply looking for others who share my thoughts and would like to work towards the goal.

If it is just me. Cool. I get it.

Can we please stop pretending that an engine can't be started without a wifi signal though?

I get it is programmed for such. I get it is nonsensical to you all.

I'm just looking for discussion on the topic that advances the discussion rather than halting.

I'm not asking anybody to do anything other than if the topic interests you, please discuss, if it doesn't than please FO and stop saying its too hard.

Yes I get it is hard and it hasn't been done. Neato.

I genuinely am just discussing. I’m not adding my opinion. I agree that you can mechanically get a pentastar to start with enough effort, but the computer control that’s bound to that, is also responsible for everything that makes a gladiator a vehicle. Shift points, lights, fuel pump, oil pump, cooling fans, everything. It’s all sensor inputs and computer controlled. To remove the RF functionality, I think you’d need a different ECM. Then you’re designing a custom vehicle using JT components. I’m genuinely not saying don’t do it. I’m answering your question as honestly as I can. You asked if we had an idea of how to eliminate it. This is my idea. Think flow charts. If a thing is true, move to step 2, then 3, and so on. Many things happen after the computer accepts that the keyfob is present. It’s not just replacing a switch. It wouldn’t change anything.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I see the chairman is back!

 

[WILDHOBO]

I see the chairman is back!

He’s not asking for this. He knows it’s a tough problem to solve. He’s asked repeatedly to leave our opinions about whether it should be done out of this. We can at least respect that. It’s his JT.

 

[Professor_Chaos]

I genuinely am just discussing. I’m not adding my opinion. I agree that you can mechanically get a pentastar to start with enough effort, but the computer control that’s bound to that, is also responsible for everything that makes a gladiator a vehicle. Shift points, lights, fuel pump, oil pump, cooling fans, everything. It’s all sensor inputs and computer controlled. To remove the RF functionality, I think you’d need a different ECM. Then you’re designing a custom vehicle using JT components. I’m genuinely not saying don’t do it. I’m answering your question as honestly as I can. You asked if we had an idea of how to eliminate it. This is my idea. Think flow charts. If a thing is true, move to step 2, then 3, and so on. Many things happen after the computer accepts that the keyfob is present. It’s not just replacing a switch. It wouldn’t change anything.

Sorry, didn't mean to apply that to you personally, Just getting frustrated. I am not always very clear and it seems that has bit me in the butt again.

No worries. Appreciate your response.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

No. My whole beef is I want to be able to bypass the entire ignition system.

I get it if nobody else has the interest, just getting tired of defending my interest.

Drop a 4.0 in it. Bypassing the entire ignition system can't be done since the PCM totally controls it in every way. There's also safeties built in for roll-over protection, etc. The timing, coil packs, and more, all controlled by the PCM. Get a wiring diagram.
That's my only advice that can do you any good - no one here has done it or has any interest and the others that hate the push button aren't skilled enough to figure it out since they also don't understand how inter-twined all of these things are.
Get wiring diagrams. You can't strip the PCM out. That can't be done on these. All of the control modules communicate with each other - and the PCM controls the throttle, is involved in traction and stability control, shift points, cruise control........ even the valve lift and valve timing is controlled as these are VVL and VVT engines.

You'd get dizzy just looking at the wiring I did to integrate a 94 Grand Cherokee engine into my 1982 car. Bundles of wire about an inch across. 50+ pin connectors, and more.

But if you insist on trying, get a subscription to the wiring diagrams (there's no book to buy)
Then dig into the code.
My honest thinking on it - and this isn't because I have no interest, this is because of how I've dug into these even at my not very deep level - I'm going to say it can't be done. Not the entire ignition system because it reads all sorts of sensors for air temp, air pressures, air velocity, reads the O2 sensors, and adjusts timing based on those and other factors. So the ignition system, as you call it, is extremely "deep" and interconnected.
IF all you want to do is start it, still you will need the wiring diagrams for this. No one out there will have any idea what to do, it will have to be invented from scratch. But in any case, wiring diagrams and charts laying out the sequence of events, what sensors and antenna are involved and more.
You will literally need some intense knowledge on the modules, the programming and electronics. The CANBus and LINBus and other communications in these are very tricky. You can't tap into them easily and certain communications are expected.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Sorry, didn't mean to apply that to you personally, Just getting frustrated. I am not always very clear and it seems that has bit me in the butt again.

No worries. Appreciate your response.

I didn’t take it personally. All good. I was just making sure you realized I wasn’t intentionally being a dick. I often come off wrong to people as well. I’d genuinely be interested to see you win this. I miss my CJ as well sometimes. But I’d be scared to death to take it on some of the trails this thing can do easily. Unfortunately, I think the ECM has a lot to do with it being so good at being a Jeep.

 

[Professor_Chaos]

He’s not asking for this. He knows it’s a tough problem to solve. He’s asked repeatedly to leave our opinions about whether it should be done out of this. We can at least respect that. It’s his JT.

 

[IamPro2A]

Have not read all 8 pages, so maybe this has been mentioned. At least for the modern V8 engines, you can buy a stand alone kit directly from Mopar Direct Connection (their performance division) with strictly the engine side computer stuff needed to install 2022 tech into older or custom built vehicles. If you can make a modern hemi run in a 1936 Dodge without the proximity ignition, it can be done in the Gladiator if they also make such a kit for the 3.6L.

It would probably mean retrofitting almost everything else tied into the oem computer; lighting, steering, wiper blades, braking system etc, and probably doing without abs, traction control, etc. But it could be done.

It would probably be easier and cheaper to just buy an older truck with the right wheelbase and swap a Gladiator body on.

 

[Challenger85]

He’s not asking for this. He knows it’s a tough problem to solve. He’s asked repeatedly to leave our opinions about whether it should be done out of this. We can at least respect that. It’s his JT.

Asking for what? I’m pulling up a chair and bringing the popcorn to watch this.

 

[USMC_1Wire6337]

I applaud your request for solutions and request for guidance/like minded people. I am by no means adverse to coming up with new ways of doing something. I will try and shed a little light as respectfully as I can so you can at least know what areas or types of expertise to look towards. (Keep in mind, this is super generalized examples based on limited auto computer programming and logic statements for orders of operations)

The reason you are getting so much resistance to the idea of removing the RF chip in the ignition system, is that the chip is a small component in the whole logical process of the Jeep's functioning. While a kill switch for a fuel pump is a great way to interrupt the starting of an engine, the RF chip is a kill switch for the computer to even acknowledge a request of operation has been requested.

A FCA ECM engineer or someone equivalent would need to provide a detailed diagram of the operation instructions that rely on the presence of the RF chip. This will be needed since there are numerous systems that look for the signal before anything can happen. Note that FCA uses the same base programming regardless of features included in your model of Jeep. That is why someone without a proximity door unlock handle can self install one and get the dealer (or with OBD programmer) to activate that feature.

Some examples of reliant systems are:
Proximity door unlock
Ignition
System power for running radio without starting engine
Etc.

Add in that each of these examples have multiple checks and conditions before they operate that rely on the presence of the RF chip, it is complicated in the least.

In the CAN BUS example stated earlier, to start the engine, the ECM gets a request to start. The ECM checks for the RF, the multitude of engine sensors to prevent damage, correct voltage to attempt to start, etc. Add in the other reliant systems and it is a tough nut to crack.

I for one am not trying to say it is impossible. What I will do is include myself in the 99% of this message board population that probably can't help without becoming an FCA engineer or equivalent. It is not that your question is invalid, stupid or impossible, I just don't think anyone here will be able to help.

I wholeheartedly second the request that if you ever do figure it out, share your results.

Reaching out to aftermarket ECM suppliers is another great suggestion. They will be the experts outside of FCA with any kind of educated guess. I am willing to bet though that a lot of the details will be protect as proprietary and confidential for safety reasons.

I started writing this a bit ago and am trying to keep up with other replies. Replacing the ECM is another option as suggested, but a lot of other features may be impacted and since the safety features of a car are designed to meet specific regulations for the year a vehicle is built. Any modifications would need to be inspected. Also, any possible failure would result in costly at fault liability in the event of an accident caused by a missing feature if not inspected.

(Edited for clarity in last paragraph)

 

[jebiruph]

DIY remote starters for RFID chipped keys use a security module that holds the chipped key in a loop antenna that connects to another loop antenna that's placed around the ignition cylinder. When power is applied to the module, the RFID signal is replicated at the ignition cylinder making it appear as if the key is in the ignition.

I used this in my TJ to defeat the RFID security and use regular metal keys. Since the JL/JT is able to start using an RFID chip, this should work, just install a switch for the security module power. Once that works, you just have to defeat the proximity antenna if you want.

The downside is that this complicates the system, it doesn't simplify it.

 

[IamPro2A]

Purely in theory, all the rf proximity stuff does is set a binary logical state in the computer - is the fob detected by the antennas? On or off. Yes or no.Again, in theory, all you have to do is create a replacement logic circuit that sets that state to ON when you turn the key on.

 

[Professor_Chaos]

Maybe I should clarify some stuff, just to help on the feasibility front.

This is manual transmission with zero options beyond the willys additions.

Manual locks, roll up windows, basic audio....

Would love to solve it for everyone but just want to express, my example lacks the other tech most of you have.

Not that it would change the facts... just so I can stop replying about locks and windows, etc.

?

 

[IamPro2A]

Problem would be that circuitry and code is probably proprietary or at least not publicly documented, and would be fairly impossible to reverse engineer for most of us.

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