Jeep ceo…. Wants zero emission freedom brand

[Stratus109]

Lol silverado EV dropped today over 100k for the “launch edition” . Yea no thanks. What a joke. What do you ev fans think is gonna happen to the price
Of electricity ?? You think its gonna get cheaper?

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[Trickster]

I do not like vehicles or houses with horizontal lines. Do not like Frank Lloyd Wright designed houses with long horizontal lines of windows, long flat lines.

Like a brick?
Hmmmm……..

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Like a brick?
Hmmmm……..

The Wrangler and Gladiator are broken up with real FENDERS. The front isn't totally square like some modern pickups. Ford and Chevy have blunt, squared, blocky fronts. The Jeep does not. The grill is open and the front isn't frowning and the fenders give it style. The front of a Wrangler or Gladiator is narrow. Ford and Chevy trucks look like the older semi tractors coming at you and Chevy used to make theirs look like it's scowling.
The Gladiator is more of a step side than a fleet side pickup.

 

[Trickster]

I grew up fixing things, improving things, building things. Modify an EV - good luck. We are mechanically inclined, gears in our head, we love the sounds of running engines and the more mechanical the better. Have you never been to an antique tractor and engine show and watched people stand around those things for hours on end, watching and listening? I used to start mine, pull up a good lawn chair and take a nap next to my running hit and miss engines.
I loved to see how SLOOOOW I could get my F20 to run - retarded the timing as far as I could, tweak the carburetor, whatever.

"Car buffs" aren't the same as people like me - I love the cars but I need to work on them, fix them, make them better, show them, restore them. There will be little for "car buffs" to do other than brag about how many watts each motor cable will handle and how they've got better batteries than the next guy.
It's not about the car, it's about what makes it tick.
Real car enthusiasts will cease to exist. What will take their place is what's already happening - ever go to a show and see lines of cars less than 5 years old and all they've done is make them make animal sounds and put color changing LEDS under the hood and do funky patterns in the upholstery? BORING. Who gives a rip - ya ordered it all from a catalog and plugged it in. Big hairy deal. So what. Any idiot can wire color changing lights to their car and make that car sit and make growling cat noises all after noon. Modern car shows are just a bunch of people who bolt parts on but don't really know what they've done or why - hey, those colors really look cool!
Go put playing cards and clothes pins on your bicycle, it's about the same thing.
I guess people don't really know what makes a REAL car person tick.
You gonna turbo-charge or super-charge your EV?
I can tweak a later 4.0 with an aluminum head, different cam, roller rockers, different exhaust, the list is pretty long - and I can do it in my current shop with my current tools.
But then these days car buffs don't really exist like they used to - it's a dying thing. Too much to do on fakebook or try the latest life hack on tiktok or twitterdumb or instacrap.
Visit my garage, then my shop - and see what REAL car buffs are like, not the guys that look at magazine articles or blogs and go wow, that's really cool. It's doing, not reading about it, not just looking at it. I've got 3 engines here to build, shelves of things to restore, 2 cars to get back on the road and a differential to rebuild. What would I do if everything was electric? Stare at it and wish it did something or had some moving parts to tinker with? Do you sit and watch an electric motor spin for an hour? But people will stand in the heat and watch engines work for hours.

When it warms up I may just pull out one of my engines and fire it up and listen to it run and watch as the cam moves the push rod and the engine gains speed and the weights fly out and lock the push rod to make the engine coast......... and listen to the woosh-woosh until the governor lets go, the exhaust valve closes and it pulls in another charge and ...... pop, as it makes a smoke ring. Moving parts, machines, that's what we love.
I may drive an electric, but it will never make me happy as a car buff. I'll simply appreciate it as transportation, that's about it.

Guess what Bill, not EVERYONE is like you.
You are a rare dying breed, people evolve and some embrace change.
Keep up or get run over. Try finding a good paying job today where you don’t need some sort of computer skills.
Not saying your wrong or what you enjoy is bad.
It’s just a unique sport, hobby or way of life in todays world.
Good on you.
Automotive technicians today and more so in the future will be less mechanical and more electronic diagnosis technicians that read codes on a computer to tell them the issues. I remember when OBD came out and it was like WOW! crazy tech.
Now some issues and mods are done via over the air updates without ever going to the dealer.
Crazy.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Automotive technicians today and more so in the future will be less mechanical and more electronic diagnosis technicians that read codes on a computer to tell them the issues.

That's why a friend, who is a Mercedes tech near DC, a while back said I should look into a job as a Mercedes tech - the computer networking technology, fiber optics, CANbus and so on.

But I was talking about "car buffs", people who are into cars and like to get their hands dirty........ not technicians/mechanics.
There's a difference.

It's not totally a dying breed, not based on the young people I see showing great restorations or running FB pages for classic cars.
But you won't have people 70 years from now collecting and bragging about their restored or even souped up 2030 EV.

 

[Trickster]

That's why a friend, who is a Mercedes tech near DC, a while back said I should look into a job as a Mercedes tech - the computer networking technology, fiber optics, CANbus and so on.

But I was talking about "car buffs", people who are into cars and like to get their hands dirty........ not technicians/mechanics.
There's a difference.

It's not totally a dying breed, not based on the young people I see showing great restorations or running FB pages for classic cars.
But you won't have people 70 years from now collecting and bragging about their restored or even souped up 2030 EV.

I am a car buff but usually do more harm and leave way too much of my DNA on the car.
I by definition should be called a car enthusiast, I hate buffing too.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I am a car buff but usually do more harm and leave way too much of my DNA on the car.
I by definition should be called a car enthusiast, I hate buffing too.

It's easier to spell 'buff' than enthusiast hahahaha

 

[DankjeeP]

Guess what Bill, not EVERYONE is like you.
You are a rare dying breed, people evolve and some embrace change.
Keep up or get run over. Try finding a good paying job today where you don’t need some sort of computer skills.
Not saying your wrong or what you enjoy is bad.
It’s just a unique sport, hobby or way of life in todays world.
Good on you.
Automotive technicians today and more so in the future will be less mechanical and more electronic diagnosis technicians that read codes on a computer to tell them the issues. I remember when OBD came out and it was like WOW! crazy tech.
Now some issues and mods are done via over the air updates without ever going to the dealer.
Crazy.

Obnoxious jerk. what more can I say?

 

[Trickster]

Obnoxious jerk. what more can I say?

How so? Was I political, racist, derogatory?
I apologize if I came across offensive, but was not my intention.
So I am confused, Bill and I get along, and enjoy our back and forth.

So yes you should “what more can I say?”

 

[Oilburner]

There are several companies doing EV conversions on classic vehicles, if EV takes over & is successful I think this trend will continue & those cars/trucks/etc will live on, as well as enthusiasm for them.

 

[Trickster]

There are several companies doing EV conversions on classic vehicles, if EV takes over & is successful I think this trend will continue & those cars/trucks/etc will live on, as well as enthusiasm for them.

Good point, but the untrained backyard wrenches may not be able to
deal with all the modern EV associated semi conductor, micro chip, radar, laser guided techno.
I would miss the IC engines rumble and roar as opposed to the EV whir
(Queue in sound from Jetsons).
But I could imagine an EV Pinto with a 0-60 in 2.9 seconds.
And without combustible fuel the rear end explosions would be obsolete.

 

[BAT]

That's why a friend, who is a Mercedes tech near DC, a while back said I should look into a job as a Mercedes tech - the computer networking technology, fiber optics, CANbus and so on.

But I was talking about "car buffs", people who are into cars and like to get their hands dirty........ not technicians/mechanics.
There's a difference.

It's not totally a dying breed, not based on the young people I see showing great restorations or running FB pages for classic cars.
But you won't have people 70 years from now collecting and bragging about their restored or even souped up 2030 EV.

Perhaps a lot has to do also that engines, etc have become so technical and computerized, etc that the average joe who used to do stuff on their own or at least try to finds its just not gonna happen on the new stuff. I remember my first car 1975 Pontiac Grand Lemann's and subsequent cars after had room to get your hands and other things in when needing to work in the engine. Now with the JT and the Rams I have had seems you can barely get a small tool into areas.

 

[stil2low]

I grew up fixing things, improving things, building things. Modify an EV - good luck. We are mechanically inclined, gears in our head, we love the sounds of running engines and the more mechanical the better. Have you never been to an antique tractor and engine show and watched people stand around those things for hours on end, watching and listening? I used to start mine, pull up a good lawn chair and take a nap next to my running hit and miss engines.
I loved to see how SLOOOOW I could get my F20 to run - retarded the timing as far as I could, tweak the carburetor, whatever.

"Car buffs" aren't the same as people like me - I love the cars but I need to work on them, fix them, make them better, show them, restore them. There will be little for "car buffs" to do other than brag about how many watts each motor cable will handle and how they've got better batteries than the next guy.
It's not about the car, it's about what makes it tick.
Real car enthusiasts will cease to exist. What will take their place is what's already happening - ever go to a show and see lines of cars less than 5 years old and all they've done is make them make animal sounds and put color changing LEDS under the hood and do funky patterns in the upholstery? BORING. Who gives a rip - ya ordered it all from a catalog and plugged it in. Big hairy deal. So what. Any idiot can wire color changing lights to their car and make that car sit and make growling cat noises all after noon. Modern car shows are just a bunch of people who bolt parts on but don't really know what they've done or why - hey, those colors really look cool!
Go put playing cards and clothes pins on your bicycle, it's about the same thing.
I guess people don't really know what makes a REAL car person tick.
You gonna turbo-charge or super-charge your EV?
I can tweak a later 4.0 with an aluminum head, different cam, roller rockers, different exhaust, the list is pretty long - and I can do it in my current shop with my current tools.
But then these days car buffs don't really exist like they used to - it's a dying thing. Too much to do on fakebook or try the latest life hack on tiktok or twitterdumb or instacrap.
Visit my garage, then my shop - and see what REAL car buffs are like, not the guys that look at magazine articles or blogs and go wow, that's really cool. It's doing, not reading about it, not just looking at it. I've got 3 engines here to build, shelves of things to restore, 2 cars to get back on the road and a differential to rebuild. What would I do if everything was electric? Stare at it and wish it did something or had some moving parts to tinker with? Do you sit and watch an electric motor spin for an hour? But people will stand in the heat and watch engines work for hours.

When it warms up I may just pull out one of my engines and fire it up and listen to it run and watch as the cam moves the push rod and the engine gains speed and the weights fly out and lock the push rod to make the engine coast......... and listen to the woosh-woosh until the governor lets go, the exhaust valve closes and it pulls in another charge and ...... pop, as it makes a smoke ring. Moving parts, machines, that's what we love.
I may drive an electric, but it will never make me happy as a car buff. I'll simply appreciate it as transportation, that's about it.

In regards to the car scene, only the “LS swap the world” guys will be left butt hurt about the shift to EV. I love the sounds of a cammed out v8, but what really impressed me is the guys that do the abnormal like swap in a EV into an old Willy’s
A true car enthusiast will appreciate the mod no matter how small or simple it is. This post reminds me of the hardcore C3 guys that if you put something on the car other than OEM or NOS then you were not part of the group. Was fun making them mad hahaha
Don’t mind the stock JT in the background haha

 

[ShadowsPapa]

How so? Was I political, racist, derogatory?
I apologize if I came across offensive, but was not my intention.
So I am confused, Bill and I get along, and enjoy our back and forth.

So yes you should “what more can I say?”

Yes, we do. Once in a while things may not come across exactly as intended but in the end, it works out.
To clarify - when I refer to "car buffs" I am not referring at all to "mechanics" or "technicians". They may be car enthusiasts, but for some it's a job.
There are "car buffs" and there are "doers" who not only own and drive the cars they love, but they care for them - sometimes as if they were children.
Some, like me, love things mechanical.
Some car enthusiasts are like my father - he could tell you the make, model and in many cases, the year, of decades worth of cars, but he'd not be able to rebuild the engine or restore one of those cars. He could do a tune up and change the oil, he liked what was under the hood.
For the EV, there won't be such people. They'll sit and compare wattages, HP and specs online or on paper, but that will be about it.

There are several companies doing EV conversions on classic vehicles, if EV takes over & is successful I think this trend will continue & those cars/trucks/etc will live on, as well as enthusiasm for them.

And there are PEOPLE, individuals who have done and are doing..........
Somewhere out there is an electrified Pacer and an EV Gremlin. AMC was actually experimenting with such things way back. And there's been people who have done it just because they could and wanted to try it. Worked slick in the cases I've seen.

LS swaps are not creative, they are belly button swaps, any novice can pick up a crate engine and buy adapters and make it happen. Boring, uncreative, everyone's doing it.

Swap a hemi into a Javelin - that's cool. (a friend has done just that - it took a shoe horn of course, but it's far more creative. LS swaps are boring. When you have a whole row of the tri-fives sitting along a city block at a car show and every one of them has an LS - you just walk by until you find something different and interesting.

Of course everyone here should recognize this engine - it has the MOPAR Pentastar logo all over the block. It's a blend of old-school and newer technology with EFI, in-tank electric fuel pump, PCM, PDC, working cruise control powered by PCM but controlled by original equipment switch, AC operated through PCM, Dakota VSS and more.

 

[bleda2002]

No one is talking about Teslas, luxury niche cars without proper regulation. Our domestic EVs have NEVER cost more to insure than our non EVs. Ever.

He's right. My 4xe is cheaper to insure than my gladiator.

Also the federal EV tax credit in its current form is indeed non-refundable.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ev-tax-credit-manchin-build-back-better/
https://www.taxwarriors.com/blog/electric-vehicle-tax-credit-explained-tesla-no-longer-eligible

There was discussion with the spending bill that died to make it refundable, but the federal one is currently not. The only thing you need to look at is your tax liability and has nothing to do with if you get a refund or not as a refund is only if you paid more taxes throughout the year than you owed. If your tax liability for the year is less than 7500 you will not get the full benefit but you will be reduced to 0.

For example, if every month you paid 1000 bucks, but your tax liability was actually 8000 (the amount the government says they're actually entitled to after all is said and done) and you bought an EV you would get a refund of 11500. Thats 4K in regular overpayment, and then 7500 from the credit.

On the other hand, you only paid 500 per month, but your tax liability was 8000, instead of owing 2K, you would get a refund of 5500, 7500 from the EV credit and 2K for what you under paid.

Last example, you paid no taxes and had no tax liability because you had no income and lived off savings, or you just made too little, you would get 0 dollars from the tax credit.

Edit:
https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8936

Thats the EV tax credit form line 23 instructions:
"Line 23
If you cannot use part of the personal portion of the credit because of the tax liability limit, the unused credit is lost. The unused personal portion of the credit cannot be carried back or forward to other tax years."


This is actually why they recommend leasing the vehicle if you dont have enough tax liability as the leasing company will immediately apply the credit as a down payment (usually) and then if you want to buy the vehicle from them you can at the negotiated price.

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