Jeep Gladiator Handling Problem

[Stan H]

Well be aware "simple" or "cheap" will yield those same results,

This is thread is on par with members that discuss the MPGs they get.

You bought a lower end model with over expectation of the the results of paying less up front and then throw the parts cannon at it.

Before you fire back with some smarty ass comment...........go drive a stock Mojave you didn't want to pay extra for up front. I'll wait for a non-bias response.

The money you have spent since then, WAY FAR surpassed what you would have spent for a Mojave on a 2" AEV spacer lift (under $600), Mopar LCAs (under $80) and Fox Ats steering stabilizer (about $400). So tally up the cost of parts/labor you've spent thus far with sub standard results.

My experience and many others will vouch for..........I have what I want, drives like a Cadillac at 80-90 mph and is a trail boss. Feel free to drop into the Mojave section and I'll be validated. I'm not talking shit, straight truth. I have nothing to gain from talking shit......because well I didn't waste money on unneeded shit in my build.

Just like buying stocks, bonds or crypto currencies........due dalliance is you money maker

I dont think thatbother models are junk when I bought my Rubicon model I could have got the Mojave for same price but I didn't want that junky Mojave . No front locker ! To each his own. I wasn't about to pay for something without a locker in both axles.

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[Swordfish44]

I dont think thatbother models are junk when I bought my Rubicon model I could have got the Mojave for same price but I didn't want that junky Mojave . No front locker ! To each his own. I wasn't about to pay for something without a locker in both axles.

Seems like Minty JL thinks Mojave is the only way to go and anyone that doesnt have one is beneath him. Minty JL also lives in Maryland while driving a desert runner... LMAO!!!

 

[SkyKing]

Sorry if my post has sparked tension amongst the Jeep owners society.
I simply wanted to educate newcomers to the Jeep ownership world that any changes to a suspension might have consequences that negatively impact how the vehicle handles.

I made a mistake and learned a lesson. I hope my story prevents someone else from a similar journey.

I enjoy my Jeep for a variety of reasons. To each his own but at the end of the day when we pass along constructive information we’re making Jeep ownership more rewarding.
Take care!

 

[DailyMoparGuy]

Sorry if my post has sparked tension amongst the Jeep owners society.
I simply wanted to educate newcomers to the Jeep ownership world that any changes to a suspension might have consequences that negatively impact how the vehicle handles.

I made a mistake and learned a lesson. I hope my story prevents someone else from a similar journey.

I enjoy my Jeep for a variety of reasons. To each his own but at the end of the day when we pass along constructive information we’re making Jeep ownership more rewarding.
Take care!

Nah you’re good.

MintyJL, a long time member, needs to answer for his superiority complex now that he’s revealed his authentic self. We didn’t know how much he looked down on us non-Mojave owners until now.

(joking, just passing time in a waiting room lol)

 

[Gizmo]

Seems the same with every 4x4 I have ever owned . Lift it then correct all the things most lift kits leave out so the price is appealing I guess. On the JT it started with pretty much MOPAR kit plus adj front track bar, 37 ko2s minus Fox parts . Thought it drove good at first . Then over time I realized once again it takes a lot more to get it to drive like it should even at this short of a lift . I have a TJ for offroad and the Gladiator replaced my DD so on road was more of a priority. Then I added Eibach shocks to replace OE max tow shocks with extensions. Then came Teraflex rear track bar bracket then the Rancho Geo control Control arm brackets . The Geo brackets decreased my caster from what it was with MOPAR extended LCAs. Old rutted roads, rocking back and forth , cross winds effect all had slightly less of an effect and a much softer ride . Now I ordered the Teraflex rear upper control arm brackets because I don't know when to stop pretty much . I am very pleased at this point so if the rear brackets has any positiver effect which I have read it does I'm a happy camper . I know it wont end there but it's where I want it to drive at this point . Now I have to start doctoring with my Daughters JL with the same brackets and shocks. You would think that at 70 years old I would be done with this hobby but ................

Edit: I have since moved the upper control arms from the middle hole to to the lower hole and gained my caster back to what it was with the MOPAR extended LCAs were alone.

 

[Minty JL]

What makes you think the Mojave is the best on road handling? LOL!!!! HIgh Altitude would be the correct answer. Or any base model like the sport.

Test drive both and report back

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You guys need to come for a visit and either watch me drive mine - with my hand almost motionless on the wheel, elbow resting on the arm rest, relaxed - or drive it yourself.
Most of the time you won't see my hand move for corrections.
i literally rest an elbow on either the console and use my right hand to hold the wheel down low, or my left elbow on the arm rest and hold the lower part of the wheel with my left hand.
Uneven roads - where the blacktop is uneven or has dips from the truck traffic, etc. still don't require moving my hand back and forth even 1/2".
There was a lot of traffic when I was out with it today or I'd have taken a video.
There's no play - move that wheel and the truck responds. If I were to shake the wheel back and forth say 1" either way, the truck would be going back and forth.
I have been for test drives in others - and frankly, I don't see the big deal......... this Overland handles like a dream, you can almost doze off driving it. If I switch hands on the wheel it's because one arm is falling asleep from lack of movement.

 

[jmac0011]

Thank you to all the good advice all over this thread------- Excessive wander should be corrected by the dealer!!

We took in our 2023 Gladiator HA (stock) with 500 miles on it for wandering back and forth. First I thought I would just get a stabilizer. Then I thought- Yea those posts saying that there is an underlying problem that needs to be fixed- has to be the right answer.

The fix- new steering box. Mechanic condemned the old one after a 5 minute drive and now we are driving like it should be.

 

[Swordfish44]

You guys need to come for a visit and either watch me drive mine - with my hand almost motionless on the wheel, elbow resting on the arm rest, relaxed - or drive it yourself.
Most of the time you won't see my hand move for corrections.
i literally rest an elbow on either the console and use my right hand to hold the wheel down low, or my left elbow on the arm rest and hold the lower part of the wheel with my left hand.
Uneven roads - where the blacktop is uneven or has dips from the truck traffic, etc. still don't require moving my hand back and forth even 1/2".
There was a lot of traffic when I was out with it today or I'd have taken a video.
There's no play - move that wheel and the truck responds. If I were to shake the wheel back and forth say 1" either way, the truck would be going back and forth.
I have been for test drives in others - and frankly, I don't see the big deal......... this Overland handles like a dream, you can almost doze off driving it. If I switch hands on the wheel it's because one arm is falling asleep from lack of movement.

I think some people just do not know how to sit back and relax while driving. If your tense while driving a Jeep its going to feel terrible. Just relax and enjoy the ride!

 

[trust]

Lomg time jeep herder byt new to round springs. Sort of. My 2020 rubicon has 2" mopar kit 37: bfg ats and it seems ok to me but the beloved parasite hates it for all its wander and vagueness. It has the fixed mopar lcas from the kit and this discussion has me wondering if i should a) get some lca drop brackets, 2) adjustable lcas or 3) if both are really necessary. I gave up on an mj i had in favor of my scrambler in part because the fron steering issues in the mj. With both an adjustable track bar and control arms.

Whick lca brackets are preferred?

Thanks all

 

[Zachanadandy]

Get into facts, science, math or geometry and it's almost as if some Jeep folks would believe it even less...... but there's a reason the factory puts these out with parallel arms, parallel to the ground (well, as much as is possible or practical. There's also compromises that have to be made to get things to fit now and then)
And you'll have the "but but what about......" or "I didn't and mine is fine so you don't have to, either" crowd.
I guess I could pull out my college books on steering, suspension and geometry but I figure - why bother.


Yes - makes it want to track straight more readily, but also harder to steer so it's a much larger load on the steering gear and requires higher pressures from the pump. That means anything connecting the steering gear to the wheels is under more stress. Bigger, wider tires mean larger footprint which means more friction between tire and road surface, then add too much caster and you are pivoting out a ways and lifting the truck while turning.
Too much also actually makes wobble more likely - caster wobble. It's real and if you go deep enough into the books, they'll talk of it. Caster wobble is more likely the more caster you have. So there's a sweet spot - enough to make it track true, but not enough to stress parts or risk caster wobble.
If you really love geometry and math - then add SAI, scrub radius and other factors in.

On a highway that's pretty flat with little to no road crown, I can let go of my steering wheel and it will track straight for quite a ways. I'm sitting under 5.
I could add some more caster, but frankly, it's fine how it is. I don't "need" more.
I don't see massive caster as a right of passage like a handful will.
If everything else was correct and proper and not a hodge-podge of parts tossed in without understanding why - only just to get it higher, then that much isn't needed.
It makes them feel good, though, and is a talking point.

When the arms aren't parallel or parallel to the ground, then each dip or rise causes the axle to move forward or backward more - and that moves the axle closer to or farther from the pitman arm on the steering gear among other changes
Lifts also mean the drag link from the pitman arm to that right knuckle is also operating at more of an angle - every rise and fall of that axle compared to the frame swings that drag link in an arc, changing the effective distance from steering knuckle to pitman.

Many of the steering problems with Jeeps are self-induced - by the owners.
It's either a massive rock crawler, or a fantastic daily driver and highway truck. Awfully hard to be both without some thinking and planning.

What's even crazier is the parts to fix most of those issues caused by lifting are cheaper than the things people mistakenly think will fix it. We've gone the massive rock crawler while being the wife's daily and our long road trip rig on 2 different JLURs. 3.5" of lift, full rock krawler no limits arms, adjustable track bars, etc on our 2019. Still had more shimmy on road hitting bumps than I liked. Added the synergy flipped tie rod and raised track bar mount and it was much better. Still had a bit of feedback on the steering wheel on bumps but pretty close to stock. When it was replaced with our 2022 xr, I felt the shimmy stock was worse. The xr sits taller and has 35s with the same control arms so caster was 4.2⁰ stock. Added lcas to get the caster closer to 6⁰ where I like it and it was solid. When we went to 3.5" metalcloak springs I decided to throw on the yeti no-drill flipped tire rod and metalcloak drop brackets. Almost no feedback through the steering at all on bumps now. Even with the bilstein 5100s and icon sway bar end links I'm about $2200 into this suspension and it rides and handles better than stock...on 39s. Combine flat steering with flat control arms and you really can have an awesome dd that will cruise 85mph on the freeway all day and then dominate 7+ rated rock trails when you get there. Odds are I'll be adding drop brackets to the mojave after I put on the aev 2" spacer lift but I want to drive it without just to prove to myself once again that the brackets make such a huge difference.

 

[HorneyBadger]

Lomg time jeep herder byt new to round springs. Sort of. My 2020 rubicon has 2" mopar kit 37: bfg ats and it seems ok to me but the beloved parasite hates it for all its wander and vagueness. It has the fixed mopar lcas from the kit and this discussion has me wondering if i should a) get some lca drop brackets, 2) adjustable lcas or 3) if both are really necessary. I gave up on an mj i had in favor of my scrambler in part because the fron steering issues in the mj. With both an adjustable track bar and control arms.

Whick lca brackets are preferred?

Thanks all

First thing is to go get a front end alignment check which will provide you with your caster numbers. More than likely brackets wont do much with the 2" lift otherwise Mopar would have provided them in the kit. If your castor is less than 5 degrees then consider adjustable LCA's to push the caster out to 5.5. If you have someplace like Firestone Center you can get a lifetime alignment. and just keep going back to check exactly where the caster is.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

More than likely brackets wont do much with the 2" lift otherwise Mopar would have provided them in the kit.

That's assuming MOPAR would be willing to make a simple bolt-on kit more complex.
Brackets can help.
Since the control arm is tilted upward going back after a lift, it has swung in an arc, up and forward, reducing caster. Longer arms negate that effect and put it close to original - assuming the MOPAR lift.
If you move the rear of the lower arm back down, it will swing in an arc, downward and back as it swings, giving more caster.
Brackets also often have provisions for changing caster just in the bracket itself.
Since you can't move the rear of the arm straight down - it will swing a slight arc as it goes, just a bracket can definitely change caster. It's why you lose caster with a lift because the rear of the arm has in effect "swung up and forward". Bracket will swing it down and rearward, forcing the bottom of the axle forward, twisting it for more caster.

Geometry - it can be shown on paper.

 

[trust]

Thank you gents. I do keep the alignment sort of current. Though if it gets repaired ill get it done again (i had what i thought a minor accident that actually broke the front axel housing). Ill be looking at that much more closely and see what the numbers say

Thanks zgain

 

[Stan H]

Well , before I lifted mine I did a lot of research and then collected each piece of the puzzle. Then after I got everything I put it all on. I have driven almost 200 miles since I stuck it on and it drives better than it ever did as a stock machine. ? yes I went with Falcon shocks Terra flex lift kit,teraflex lower control arms and forge front track bar and let me say mines as steady as a rock and all the swaying is gone. The bobbing is gone...Now we also sat my Caster ourselves using a manual and a digital caster gauge so it wouldnt be one of these drive away and have problems. Thebmanual bubble gauge said 5.0 degrees the digital said 5.4 so we left it at that and it drove like a dream.. Etc.. no mistake on my part with the lift.

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