JTR Towing weight reduction

[kclendaniel]

I am running some numbers for towing scenarios and one of the things I have come across is the excess weight of the JTR vs the Max Tow and how overall weight reduction of bolt on components could potentially reduce vehicle weight and therefore increase payload (i.e. swap a skid plate for a kid ). While I am towing I won't be going off road so all the additional skid protection is just added unnecessary weight.

Since I don't have my truck yet I can't just pull these items off and weigh them so I am searching around for published data and having difficultly getting weights by part numbers from vendors. Once I get my truck there will be multiple runs to the CAT scales to more clearly define the actual limits of my truck/trailer combo.

This is what I have so far:

Steel bumper end caps = 22lb
Rock Rails = 33lb each
Front Skid Plate = 23lb

These I can't find and I am hoping the community can help:

Gas Tank Skid plate
Transfer Case Skid plate
Transmission Skid plate

Any other tips tricks anybody has about balancing weight or weight reduction are helpful. The biggest thing I have run into running the numbers on towing with these is the tongue weight impact on the payload pushing me over. One trick i thought of was relocating the spare to the rear of the trailer next to the trailer spare which would transfer about 65lb from truck payload to behind the rear trailer axles.

Before anyone comments about towing too heavy with one of these trucks I am just running the numbers to see what I can tow within the published specs (GCWR/GVWR/GAWR) because published 'trailer tow' ratings are not a reliable gauge. Lots of people have obviously run already with some heavy loads but I want to see what I can actually haul with my rig and still stay legal if pulled onto a scale.

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[Rokon]

I'm not so sure it works the way you think. The tow rating takes into account the weight of the tow vehicle in determining the trailer weight that is controllable.
If you stripped 2000lbs from the JT and added that amount to the trailer things will get ugly.
Can probably save 500lbs replacing all the seats with wicker........ hot air balloon interior!!

 

[kelkolb]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the rock rails are 33lbs each. I put some on my sport and don't recall them being too heavy. Maybe 33 lbs for both.

 

[kclendaniel]

I'm not so sure it works the way you think. The tow rating takes into account the weight of the tow vehicle in determining the trailer weight that is controllable.
If you stripped 2000lbs from the JT and added that amount to the trailer things will get ugly.
Can probably save 500lbs replacing all the seats with wicker........ hot air balloon interior!!

You are mis-understanding this exercise. I am not trying to increase any published numbers of what the truck can tow or transfer weight taken off the truck to the trailer (with the exception of shifting the spare). Tow rating is an optimal situation with only a driver, I am looking at a real world scenario based off of the legal limits of the truck (GVWR,GAWR,GCWR) and since I am over 150lb I am already eating into that optimal calculation.

The curb weight of the truck is where I am concerned because lowering the curb weight of the truck increases payload because payload is GVWR - Curb Weight. I can stay well within the tow rating and GCWR but still be over the payload capacity while staying under the GAWR of each axle. It is a balance of passengers/gear vs tongue weight. I am talking in hundreds not thousands of pounds (i.e. adding passengers because the published numbers only assume 1 150lb driver).

33lb for the rock rails was from the shipping weight of 68341315AA (driver side only) per Quadratec. Yes it isn't the best source but like I said right now I don't have the parts to pull off and weigh.

 

[kclendaniel]

Actually revise that up to 95lb. This is apparently both rails + hardware. https://www.quadratec.com/p/mopar/rubicon-rock-rails-gladiator-jt

 

[bobjohnson26]

Actually revise that up to 95lb. This is apparently both rails + hardware. https://www.quadratec.com/p/mopar/rubicon-rock-rails-gladiator-jt

Once you took delivery of your Rubicon, did you happen to determine the weight of the rock rails?

 

[kevman65]

I see where you're going.

The maximum you'll be able to achieve is the max haul/tow of the Sport S with Max Tow.
So your optimum curb weight is that of a normally dressed Max Tow.
Jeep hasn't released any numbers besides the curb weights of the different models.

Yes, optimally, you can increase your max haul/tow, but there are no numbers to back you up and if something happens while towing/hauling more than the sticker says, you are on the hook liability wise.

Keep in mind also, the Rubi rear springs are softer than the Max Tow rear springs. This will come into play in your math.

 

[Rummie]

I see where you're going.

The maximum you'll be able to achieve is the max haul/tow of the Sport S with Max Tow.
So your optimum curb weight is that of a normally dressed Max Tow.
Jeep hasn't released any numbers besides the curb weights of the different models.

Yes, optimally, you can increase your max haul/tow, but there are no numbers to back you up and if something happens while towing/hauling more than the sticker says, you are on the hook liability wise.

Keep in mind also, the Rubi rear springs are softer than the Max Tow rear springs. This will come into play in your math.

I believe what he is saying is that if you reduce the curb weight by X lbs then you can carry X lbs more in gear. It's all about the amount of weight that he can have in the Jeep in this case.

 

[kevman65]

I believe what he is saying is that if you reduce the curb weight by X lbs then you can carry X lbs more in gear. It's all about the amount of weight that he can have in the Jeep in this case.

Yes, but "technically" he still can't exceed the limit on the sticker.

The catch I keep bringing up to people, the Feds have a safety multiplication factor that has to be met in order to say the vehicle can tow/haul a specific number.

Our trucks can handle a LOT more than Jeep or the sticker says. But then you fall back into the liability issue.

 

[Rummie]

Yes, but "technically" he still can't exceed the limit on the sticker.

The catch I keep bringing up to people, the Feds have a safety multiplication factor that has to be met in order to say the vehicle can tow/haul a specific number.

Our trucks can handle a LOT more than Jeep or the sticker says. But then you fall back into the liability issue.

I agree.

But I also think that if he can lower the weight of the vehicle then he can keep from going over the GVWR that is on the sticker and keep any liability risk very low.

As a simplified imaginary example:

GVWR 5000 lbs - Actual 5000 lbs
Net Carrying Capacity 1000 lbs - Actual 1000 lbs
Max Tow Rating 5000 lbs - Actual 5000 lbs

He wants to bring his dog along. So he takes the rock sliders off to save 100 lbs. Now you have:

GVWR 5000 lbs - Actual 5000 lbs
Net Carrying Capacity 1000 lbs - Still at 1000 lbs by replacing dog for sliders. (This is the debatable part)
Max Tow Rating 5000 lbs.

The difference is that you take off 100 lbs in rock sliders and put in 100 lbs of dog. To me, the liability there is next to zero.


Now if you try to use lowering the weight of the vehicle to pull more than it's rated for then you can absolutely have liability issues.

 

[kclendaniel]

The rubicon rock rails are 33.2 lb each plus the weight of the hardware. The rear rails (not including the huge bracket behind the rear fender) are 7 lb. each.

The idea was lower the weight of the tow vehicle to handle more payload not tow beyond the GCWR. It is a simple math exercise. People spend so much time adding weight with mods they could easily kill the payload advantage of the ‘max tow’ which would negate the ability to reach the higher GCWR without overloading the limits of the truck.

After towing right at the ‘limits’ of my diesel rubicon I have no doubt the full de-rating is only due to cooling and the increased curb weight so all other factors being the same if you wanted to increase your payload then removing or replacing with lighter materials is a viable option.

As far as rear spring rates that is easily overcome with airbags which are very lightweight for what it’s worth.

 

[jglenndavis83]

I am running some numbers for towing scenarios and one of the things I have come across is the excess weight of the JTR vs the Max Tow and how overall weight reduction of bolt on components could potentially reduce vehicle weight and therefore increase payload (i.e. swap a skid plate for a kid ). While I am towing I won't be going off road so all the additional skid protection is just added unnecessary weight.

Since I don't have my truck yet I can't just pull these items off and weigh them so I am searching around for published data and having difficultly getting weights by part numbers from vendors. Once I get my truck there will be multiple runs to the CAT scales to more clearly define the actual limits of my truck/trailer combo.

This is what I have so far:

Steel bumper end caps = 22lb
Rock Rails = 33lb each
Front Skid Plate = 23lb

These I can't find and I am hoping the community can help:

Gas Tank Skid plate
Transfer Case Skid plate
Transmission Skid plate

Any other tips tricks anybody has about balancing weight or weight reduction are helpful. The biggest thing I have run into running the numbers on towing with these is the tongue weight impact on the payload pushing me over. One trick i thought of was relocating the spare to the rear of the trailer next to the trailer spare which would transfer about 65lb from truck payload to behind the rear trailer axles.

Before anyone comments about towing too heavy with one of these trucks I am just running the numbers to see what I can tow within the published specs (GCWR/GVWR/GAWR) because published 'trailer tow' ratings are not a reliable gauge. Lots of people have obviously run already with some heavy loads but I want to see what I can actually haul with my rig and still stay legal if pulled onto a scale.

I'm curious. Did you ever find a solution? I am also right up against my Gladiator limits and so I'm very interested in learning what you found.

 

[White Jeep]

Here is how you can save almost 100 lbs on an Airstream 16'. I am also working on a weight and balance and legal approach to my Overland. Sticker shows that i only have 1035 lbs for payload.

Life Line AGM Group 27 100 Amps = 62 lbs each (standard equipment)

Battle Born Lith batteries 100 Amps = 31 lbs each.

20 lb steel tank filled = 37 lbs x 2 = 74 lbs

10 lb Aluminum tank filled = 19 lbs x 2 = 38 lbs.

Saving with battery change and (2) 10 lb Alum. tanks = 98 lbs

I am considering 2 x 10 alum tanks. Very easy to carry empty (9.4 lbs) to get filled. Filed 19 lbs.

With no gas frig on my 16' 2021 Caravel, and most always camping in warm Temps, I think I can get away with two x 10 lbs tanks.


Bob

 

[jglenndavis83]

Here is how you can save almost 100 lbs on an Airstream 16'. I am also working on a weight and balance and legal approach to my Overland. Sticker shows that i only have 1035 lbs for payload.

Life Line AGM Group 27 100 Amps = 62 lbs each (standard equipment)

Battle Born Lith batteries 100 Amps = 31 lbs each.

20 lb steel tank filled = 37 lbs x 2 = 74 lbs

10 lb Aluminum tank filled = 19 lbs x 2 = 38 lbs.

Saving with battery change and (2) 10 lb Alum. tanks = 98 lbs

I am considering 2 x 10 alum tanks. Very easy to carry empty (9.4 lbs) to get filled. Filed 19 lbs.

With no gas frig on my 16' 2021 Caravel, and most always camping in warm Temps, I think I can get away with two x 10 lbs tanks.


Bob

Thanks. Have you considered relocating the LP tanks during travel to lower tongue weight? The tongue weight seems like the primary limiting factor for my JTR.

I'm actually looking at a 25' Flying Cloud. I think a 23' will work for sure.

 

[White Jeep]

This week I will be using a "CAT" scale and will give the numbers sometime next week with trailer hooked up. I know my hitch (ball) weight is 560 lbs (with only 25% fresh water and NO black or gray in tank), which comes off the 1000 lbs that I have. So you can see adding 2 people and a dog, does not leave much for any items in bed. That is the main reason I may try and save a 100 lbs with the changes I listed.

Except for the "Max Tow" on the Sport S, all the Gladiators (especially the Overland) have a really low cargo weight allowance. The Airstream 16' has a max GVWR of 4,300 lbs. That compared to my available 6,000 lbs, means I have plenty of space there. It is the Max GVW of the Gladiator at 5,800 lbs that is low. I know my Gladiator weighs in on a CAT scale with full tanks and NOTHING in the bed or no passagers at 4,800 lbs. A well equipped Diesel Gladiator Overland has even less that a 1,000 of people + cargo allowed. That is a real shame.

take care, be safe, Bob

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