JUNK YARD FORD 1 TON AXLE SWAP

[DesertShot]

What filler material and weld process did you use for the tubes and truss to the center casting, and also for the high steer brackets to the knuckles?

And what wheels? They look like they could use a little more backspacing to reduce scrub radius.

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[TRAILJT]

I used standard wire when welding truss and brackets to tubes and used nickel wire for truss to cast. Pre heated cast to 450-500 degrees with a rosebud then kept warming up the same way every 5-10 min as I let them cool. Oh and and immediately after welding I used a flattened air impact hammer to take the stress out of the welds. The wheels are black rhino Rift beadlocks 17 x 8.5 -38 back space.

 

[DesertShot]

How has the artec crossover steering worked for you? Any issues daily driving it?

I have the same kit, still boxed up, and am still learning about ackerman angle and such. It looks like the crossove bracketry is closer to neutral ackerman, whereas buying artec's aluminum kit with the high steer arm retains the stock ackerman of the axle since the tie rod connections remain the same.

I called artec and asked what they recommended for daily driving, and he said the crossover kit is designed for proper ackerman, but I find that hard to believe since the Gladiator wheelbase is shorter than a superduty and artec has moved the tie rod pivots inward towards the ballpoint with the crossover bracketry.

I'm looking for some experience here from TrailJT or anyone else that has daily driven 05+ 1 tons with stock or neutral ackerman, and if it is worth worrying about. I imagine it is worth getting right if you live in areas that see rain and snow in the colder months, where ackerman helps to prevent slipping during turning.

 

[TRAILJT]

How has the artec crossover steering worked for you? Any issues daily driving it?

I have the same kit, still boxed up, and am still learning about ackerman angle and such. It looks like the crossove bracketry is closer to neutral ackerman, whereas buying artec's aluminum kit with the high steer arm retains the stock ackerman of the axle since the tie rod connections remain the same.

I called artec and asked what they recommended for daily driving, and he said the crossover kit is designed for proper ackerman, but I find that hard to believe since the Gladiator wheelbase is shorter than a superduty and artec has moved the tie rod pivots inward towards the ballpoint with the crossover bracketry.

I'm looking for some experience here from TrailJT or anyone else that has daily driven 05+ 1 tons with stock or neutral ackerman, and if it is worth worrying about. I imagine it is worth getting right if you live in areas that see rain and snow in the colder months, where ackerman helps to prevent slipping during turning.

Hello, How's it going? Im gonna be honest, I have no clue what you are talking about. But I can tell you it handles great on the road and off road. Im not sure what ackerman is. Ill do some research.

 

[DesertShot]

Hello, How's it going? Im gonna be honest, I have no clue what you are talking about. But I can tell you it handles great on the road and off road. Im not sure what ackerman is. Ill do some research.

No problem, thanks for the reply. Just ordered all of my internals with the 4th of July sales. Ford rear locker, front eaton locker, nitro 5.38 gears and install kits, beadlocks and 40" nittos, etc.

I'll stick with the crossover kit for now. I can always get new knuckles with stock ackerman angle if this doesn't work out.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Funny I've never seen anyone on a forum talk about Ackermann.........Seems like were just now getting into "scrub". I remember measuring all of that doing heavy truck alignments where you could actually get different steering arm lengths to dial stuff in properly.

Everyone seems to be hyper focused on making 1/4° changes in caster especially on the Metal Cloak forums where people are just sniffing each others butts in a circle regurgitating shit that sounds legit..........

 

[Joe Dillard]

Funny I've never seen anyone on a forum talk about Ackermann.........

I recall first talking about it in depth in the late 90's and several hundreds of times throughout the 2000's, 2010's etc on various Jeep forums.

Just google mrblaine (a longtime friend since the late 1990's and Jeep co-builder when I lived in SoCal and worked at his shop).

We use to hangout on JeepsUnlimited in the 1990's through 2010's and Jeep Forum from ~2000 to 2020.

I'm still a Mod on JF

 

[CrazyCooter]

I recall first talking about it in depth in the late 90's and several hundreds of times throughout the 2000's, 2010's etc on various Jeep forums.

Just google mrblaine (a longtime friend since the late 1990's and Jeep co-builder when I lived in SoCal and worked at his shop).

We use to hangout on JeepsUnlimited in the 1990's through 2010's and Jeep Forum from ~2000 to 2020.

Yes, one of the technical guys.......

So much garbage to filter out of the forums these days that it's hardly worth participating.

 

[CerOf]

I recall first talking about it in depth in the late 90's and several hundreds of times throughout the 2000's, 2010's etc on various Jeep forums.

Just google mrblaine (a longtime friend since the late 1990's and Jeep co-builder when I lived in SoCal and worked at his shop).

We use to hangout on JeepsUnlimited in the 1990's through 2010's and Jeep Forum from ~2000 to 2020.

I'm still a Mod on JF

Wow, that took me down memory lane when I was a mod on jeepsuimited.com

That was 20 years ago, dang.

 

[TRAILJT]

Funny I've never seen anyone on a forum talk about Ackermann.........Seems like were just now getting into "scrub". I remember measuring all of that doing heavy truck alignments where you could actually get different steering arm lengths to dial stuff in properly.

Everyone seems to be hyper focused on making 1/4° changes in caster especially on the Metal Cloak forums where people are just sniffing each others butts in a circle regurgitating shit that sounds legit..........

So, Is this Ackermann thing even important on an off road rig? It sounds like you are familiar with it. I do drive my rig on the road and it handles better than stock. It actually feels like it is on rails driving through the California mountains. It handles like an underpowered sports car on one tons. Lol. I built everything at home but didn't have any experience building axles. I am a non schooled Mechanical Engineer/fabricator/welder and have a lot of common sense, but not an expert by any means when it comes to suspension. I was pretty impressed with my build and happy with the way everything turned out. I am always open to listen to someone with experience. Thanks.

 

[CrazyCooter]

So, Is this Ackermann thing even important on an off road rig? It sounds like you are familiar with it. I do drive my rig on the road and it handles better than stock. It actually feels like it is on rails driving through the California mountains. It handles like an underpowered sports car on one tons. Lol. I built everything at home but didn't have any experience building axles. I am a non schooled Mechanical Engineer/fabricator/welder and have a lot of common sense, but not an expert by any means when it comes to suspension. I was pretty impressed with my build and happy with the way everything turned out. I am always open to listen to someone with experience. Thanks.

All of the angles are important to one degree (Pun intended) or another and everyone's idea of what drives great is subjective! On an off road rig, it is probably less important, but could make that difference in the way the vehicle turns in and grips rocks at full lock especially when there isn't equal traction on the front wheels.

I've driven half a dozen different vehicles a day on average during my career ranging from school buses, RV's Semi tractors, 4x4's and luxury high performance cars. Most people think everything is OK.

You should be able to find a chart online that would assist you in determining how close you are. Back when I was looking into this ion my own trucks, GM wasn't offering different knuckles for K5's, SWB, LWB, and Crewcab wheel bases, so they fell in between. When swapping 1 tons, the modern stuff (Ford Superduty D60)has much longer wheelbase than any JL/JT, so I would assume things could be improved upon.

This should explain it better.

 

[DesertShot]

I'm glad to hear you are happy with it. I'm looking forward to mine.

It isn't really important offroad for 99% of people other than very picky rock crawlers. It theoretically matters on road only during tight turns with enough velocity to cause a loss of stable turning. It is about making sure the tires stay in perfect contact with the surface below when you need them to without scrubbing... during a turn when you are counting on not slipping. For most of us jeepers, that means onroad in wet/icy/snowy conditions when we want to be able to make a decent turn without our axles being predispositioned to scrub tires at higher steering angles, making an already risky turn worse.

I'm not too worried about it. These axles never have perfect ackerman angle, since that is related directly to wheelbase and front axle width. The same axle and knuckle is used in multiple configuration lengths of superduty from shortcab/shorted to supercab/longed.

Ackerman, from what I understand, is a mechanical and positively variable inclination of steering angle of the inner front tire relative to the outer front tire. Driving straight ahead, both tires are parallel. As you turn one way, with ackerman, the inner tire will increase in turning angle relative to the outer tire. The harder you turn, the more the inner tire is turning tighter than the outer. If you were to plot the delta in turning angle between inner and out front tires against overall turning angle it would be a rising line from left to right as overall steering angle is increased. I don't know if it would be approximately linear or not, but you get the idea. The point is, this delta of turning angle between tires is only ever perfectly valid for one particular wheelbase and front axle width. Ford/spicer likely designed the acherkman for the d60 to be close to perfect for the most common truck configuration they sold, and were happy to use that ackerman angle across all of the other configurations as well.

It's not a case of you either have it or you don't. It's variable. You have some ackerman, it just likely isn't perfectly setup for our JTs, which is probably just fine except in extreme cases such as a 50mph turn in snow or something. I think just being cognizant of the concept and how the axle might perform is enough to mitigate any risk encountered. So long as it drives good.

 

[hansshanks]

Now that you have had some time with the ABS setup how is it holding up? I Picked up a set of superduty axles this past weekend to do the swap with on my hoopdy. What was the ball park price on the abs adapter setup for the front. their website doesnt list prices. I am hopefully going to order the Artech trusses this week.

Ok so here is what the new front exterior 52 tooth tone rings look like installed with Factory Jeep ABS speed sensor installed. I can't see this not working. I have both front rings installed on the front. I will be installed the new 52 tooth rings on the rear hubs tonight. Keep your fingers crossed for me. Oh, I almost forgot. depending on what Unit bearing you have it may be necessary to trip the corners of the mounting flange in order to slide the ring over. Im sure a grinder would have worked just fine but I have a large engine lathe handy at home so I simply chucked them up and shaved the corners off for clearance.

 

[TheSolarWizard]

id love an update on this

 

[Gvellas]

@TRAILJT how is the ride? Updates?

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