Just general manual transmission driving question

basicGlad

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Just going from a stop to first I have to be on the throttle while depressing the clutch pedal.

Going up all the other gears, 1st -> 2nd, 2nd - 3rd//4th.... Should I be pressing the throttle while I press the clutch in, and also be pressing the throttle while depressing the clutch?

Or should I take my foot off the throttle, when I press and depress the clutch?

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I get my best down shifts when I let off the throttle, press the clutch fully in, move the gear selector, rev high (just give it a woof - press and release the throttle) and depress the clutch while breaking. This is for slowing down.

Any advice for gearing down to speed up? Should I be on or off the throttle when pressing and depressing the clutch?

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I can shift from any gear to any other gear smoothly both up and down. I'm just wondering what I really should be doing (best technique//best practices) with the throttle to minimize clutch wear.



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hjdca

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Here are some tips:

1. When downshifting to accelerate, try to match the revs... So, if you are at 2K rpm and you downshift, gas it to 3K rpm and let the clutch out easy and it should be close to the right rpm for the lower gear.

2. Pressing on the accelerator while shifting to acceleration depends on the car. The Gladiator has big tires and a computer throttle, so, I have noticed when you accelerate hard and shift fast, you usually need "no gas" during the shift or the truck will lurch forward a little, ie. too much gas during shift... Note: The big tires, throttle response, and the light engine internals of the Gladiator happen to keep the revs up during the shift and you normally do not need gas during the shift.

In general, the smoother you make the shift and the faster you let the clutch out, the less wear on the clutch. Remember -- smooth, fast shifts means rev. matching.
 
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basicGlad

basicGlad

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Thanks for the tips

The big tires, throttle response, and the light engine internals of the Gladiator
Do you think so? Or is it just programmed in rev hang?
 

hjdca

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Thanks for the tips


Do you think so? Or is it just programmed in rev hang?
Not sure, but, I have noticed that the newer cars/truck/gladiator with manual trans and "no throttle cable" rev hang much more than the older cars. Even sports cars like the 2015 Z28 rev. hang more than I am used to.... so, maybe it is a combination of things -- no throttle cable, lighter internals, computer controlled, etc... , but, I agree with you, rev. hang has changed in general on newer cars with manual trans. ie. On old muscle cars, the revs drop like a rock when you shift, so, you always have to gas them just a little during the shift ---- which is not the case with the Gladiator.
 
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basicGlad

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Makes sense. My '90 Miata revs up fast but no rev hang, throttle by wire/cable not electric

From here

"If you didn't let off of the accelerator to change up gear then your RPMs would shoot through the roof and cause strain/damage to the engine."

^ Makes sense.

Just to close this case. When I shift up from 2 to 3 and I'm depressing the clutch to engage 3rd.... It's fine to be on the throttle? Even where and when it engages?
Just do it smoothly and quick?
 

hjdca

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Makes sense. My '90 Miata revs up fast but no rev hang, throttle by wire/cable not electric

From here

"If you didn't let off of the accelerator to change up gear then your RPMs would shoot through the roof and cause strain/damage to the engine."

^ Makes sense.

Just to close this case. When I shift up from 2 to 3 and I'm depressing the clutch to engage 3rd.... It's fine to be on the throttle? Even where and when it engages?
Just do it smoothly and quick?
When you shift from 2nd to 3rd, you want to let off the clutch fast.... , and you do not want the truck to lurch forward or backward... If you shift fast and let the clutch out fast, I have noticed at high rpm, the revs will only come down enough almost perfect for the next gear without pressing the gas pedal --- of course, this depends on which RPM you shift at and how fast you shift.
 

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For starting out, don't overthink or get too technical - try doing it all by feel, by your gut. Focus on what you don't want to do, rather than what you want to do.

In general,
- avoid slipping the clutch or having long periods of clutch "half engagement"
- avoid overrevving or underrevving (lugging)
- avoid being so quick to release clutch that you get jerky/bouncy

Getting a basic feel for the clutch and shifting can take a few days; getting to really know it can take weeks or several months. After that if you want to fine tune things, start watching RPMs.

Simply put, listen to the motor and RPMs and feel the clutch engagement/disengagement. Aim for smooth and relatively quick transitions from one gear to the next. You should be able to zero in on it over a few days. Don't let bad shifts discourage you; that's actually what helps you zero in on good shifts.

"Just do it smoothly and quick?"

Yes, exactly. Not so smooth that you excessively slip the clutch, but not so quick that you slam it into gear. "Just right."
 

sarcasm

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Looking at your profile I have to ask: Does this question mean you have an automatic Miata? Cause that just breaks my heart.

And don't be afraid to let the clutch out slowly to get a smooth shift. Just don't leave it slightly engaged. That is what kills a clutch.
 

Empty Pockets

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Hell, I don’t even think about the shifting. I’m so used to manuals from 4+ decades driving them that it’s all second nature. I was taught young that when down shifting you should “double clutch”, meaning slip into neutral, let out the clutch and slightly goose the throttle, push the clutch in and shift to the next lower gear. This helped A LOT in the old 3 speed T90 trans With the unsyncronized 1st gear back in the Willys and Kaiser days. Double clutching brought the engine and transmission speeds closer together and reduced grinding in 1st and reduced wear on the 2ed and 3rd gear synchronizers. Not sure that it helps now But old habits die hard.
 
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basicGlad

basicGlad

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@sarcasm nope it is a manual miata. I can shift a manual smoothly up and down, just nobody ever taught me, no training. I had a throw away Honda with a manual way way back I just went at it and learnt on.

I know to not ride the clutch and to not keep it at the engagement point.

I was just over thinking giving it gas, throttle when I depress the clutch pedal. And also giving it gas when I press the clutch pedal. My concern was being on the throttle while engaging to clutch to shift up... But seems like an long as I get it quick and smooth it's good.

Thanks all for the help and advice
 

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Just going from a stop to first I have to be on the throttle while depressing the clutch pedal.
...
Man, I was totally confused by your questions, starting with the very first one. Then I realized that you were using the term depress wrong. To depress the clutch means to push it in, not to let it out. The words you should be using are "engage the clutch" or "let the clutch out."

The advice you've received is all very good.
 
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basicGlad

basicGlad

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@jimbom yep sorry, I was using de-press (let clutch pedal out aka take foot off pedal) and press (push pedal in)

Which, you're correct, is the opposite of what the actual clutch is doing
 

wannajeep

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Should I be pressing the throttle while I press the clutch in, and also be pressing the throttle while depressing the clutch?
No to pressing the throttle when pushing the clutch pedal in. That's too early. Just make sure that before you start the gear change process (to next higher gear), you've increased RPMs "enough" in the current gear. That's just before you push the clutch pedal in. Enough means not crazy high rev, but not so low that immediately after the shift (and clutch pedal release) the engine is bogging down.

I'd guess a ballpark good shift point might be around 3,500 rpm, assuming the comfortable cruising RPM for the 6-speed is 2,000. That's a guess because I'm not in the jeep right now. But again instead of looking at the tach for a number, try just listening to the motor. You want smooth, steady sound, not high whining low lugging.

Or should I take my foot off the throttle, when I press and depress the clutch?
Foot coming off the throttle and pushing the clutch pedal in should be about simultaneous. If not simultaneous, better to get off the throttle a hair earlier than pushing in the clutch pedal. If you push in clutch pedal before coming off the throttle you'll rev the motor high which is silly and unnecessary.

As far as when to get back on the throttle goes, as long as you've matched RPMs to road speed (drivetrain speed), you should be able to completely get off the clutch pedal without giving throttle. As soon as clutch pedal is released, ease onto the throttle.
 

AustinL911

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Do you think so? Or is it just programmed in rev hang?
For those wondering, modern drive-by-wire manuals have rev hang programmed into them for emission reasons. The catalytic converter is only able to effectively do its job in a tight A/F range. Too lean = more CO2. Too rich = more NO2. The rev hang is programmed in so the engine doesn't experience a sudden rich environment every time you snap the throttle body closed during a shift. Unburnt fuel suddenly is without neccessary air to burn it efficiently and you end up with a brief rich environment. The 'hang' gives the engine time to fully burn that fuel.

Its annoying.
 

hjdca

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For those wondering, modern drive-by-wire manuals have rev hang programmed into them for emission reasons. The catalytic converter is only able to effectively do its job in a tight A/F range. Too lean = more CO2. Too rich = more NO2. The rev hang is programmed in so the engine doesn't experience a sudden rich environment every time you snap the throttle body closed during a shift. Unburnt fuel suddenly is without neccessary air to burn it efficiently and you end up with a brief rich environment. The 'hang' gives the engine time to fully burn that fuel.

Its annoying.
Thanks ! for that explanation, totally makes sense. I also do notice that my "wideband" goes rich during the "shift let off" on my carb. equipped car with throttle cable.
 
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