LED Headlights & snow

[88mmm]

Then it is a US, all manufacturers issue NOT solely a Jeep issue. I did not realize other markets across the world had something that is standard to fix any snow build up issues.

If there is a market discussion, can you link me to it? I have never seen large scale (or any scale for that matter), "Other markets get this so why can't the US" when it comes to LED lights + snow build up.

My comment still stands: if someone is complaining about LED's in the snow in the US they clearly have no understanding of LED's.

I stand corrected as the washer requirements only apply to xenon lamps in Europe and have not caught up to LEDs. My Audi S3 has the washers for the LEDs so I thought it had carried over. I think the shape of the jeep headlight is unique enough that the problem is worse then other LEDs as the snow and slush tends to get stuck in the housing. It's enough of an issue that a company went through the R&D to offer heated LED lights for the jeep, you don't see that for any other vehicle other then long haul trucks. I'm going to look into some sort of retrofit solution using similar technology.

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[88mmm]

Washers? That spray liquid? At -14°F? Yeah, I'd like to see how well that works. Lol. The chemicals you'd have to use to prevent immediate ice glazing on the lens would eat the lens alive in a period of a couple of years.

The headlight washers on European cars are heated and work at high pressure. They work quite well at sub zero temps. I have a car from 2001 with these washers and there are no issues with the lenses.

 

[TLife]

My comment still stands: if someone is complaining about LED's in the snow in the US they clearly have no understanding of LED's.

So it's the consumer's fault for not knowing every engineering detail of the vehicle before buying it? Maybe people don't understand LEDs, maybe they just didn't put it together that more efficient headlights could have this issue. Don't ridicule people for speaking up about something they see as a design flaw. I understand LEDs and I still think it's a problem and would like a heated option, but that won't happen if nobody ever complains about it.

 

[Trippin01]

I'm a fan of the old style lights, The LED's are horrible in the snow when compared to the standard bulbs. There was a time when the old style were called "Full Spectrum Lighting" but the manufacturers thought this was unfair to LED's because for the most part, LED's do out perform Incandescent bulbs in just about every way, including dependability. Snow is the exception, both because the Incandescent bulb is really a heater that gives off light, and it is "full spectrum" to the human eye, more than LED. I'll add LED off road lights, and keep my incandescent headlamps. I do wish I could have gotten the LED's everywhere else on the JT tho. Oh well, I still love the truck, and the Jeep.

 

[TYJ]

There should be a “Snow & Ice LED” option for those who need it. A simple aux switch that turns on a heated element (thin wire similar to those in rear windows) cast into the polycarbonate lens.

 

[Mjolnir]

So it's the consumer's fault for not knowing every engineering detail of the vehicle before buying it? Maybe people don't understand LEDs, maybe they just didn't put it together that more efficient headlights could have this issue. Don't ridicule people for speaking up about something they see as a design flaw. I understand LEDs and I still think it's a problem and would like a heated option, but that won't happen if nobody ever complains about it.

Not ridiculing. Simply saying this is an issue with all manufacturers/LED lights for years, not just Jeep (which is what many have stated, reread the first page). I get that we are in a jeep forum so everything will be about what FCA does/does not do. But I do not see this complaint on any other forum (besides when LED lights started becoming a thing).

I'm all for trying to change the way automakers do things like this. It would be fantastic to have a heated option for LED's, or a heated element become standard for all LED's in the industry. I made sure to get heated LED lights for my other two jeeps because of this issue. Knowing every engineering detail is obviously ridiculous. But knowing the basics, when it comes to option packages at the minimum, is pretty logical.

 

[smlobx]

Its BS these headlights should not do this. It's the reason all European cars are required to have headlight washers if xenon or LED. Not sure why this was not given more thought but its it's definitely a safety issue.

‘If that’s the case, and I’m not doubting you, then Jeep will have to include this in the vehicles it sells in Europe and we could probably get the parts here once we figure out which ones they are.

 

[Gatorized]

There are several recipes for DIY ice melt solutions (one example: To make an alcohol solution, mix one part water and two parts 70% isopropyl alcohol in a spray bottle. When you spray this onto your icy windshield, the frost will begin to dissolve, while the ice will begin to melt and break apart) which could be used if there were an optional headlight spray nozzle.
These solutions do work on the windshield - I have a spray bottle in the trunk that came in handy when we got the first heavy frost and I had not yet put the scrapper in the car! Instant melt!
NOTE: easier to store/transport and apply than liquid hot magma!

 

[Tim]

I'm a fan of the old style lights, The LED's are horrible in the snow when compared to the standard bulbs. There was a time when the old style were called "Full Spectrum Lighting" but the manufacturers thought this was unfair to LED's because for the most part, LED's do out perform Incandescent bulbs in just about every way, including dependability. Snow is the exception, both because the Incandescent bulb is really a heater that gives off light, and it is "full spectrum" to the human eye, more than LED. I'll add LED off road lights, and keep my incandescent headlamps. I do wish I could have gotten the LED's everywhere else on the JT tho. Oh well, I still love the truck, and the Jeep.

I agree for the most part. The cooler color temp of LED lighting can produce a lot of glare during snow. I am giving serious thought to putting yellow Lamin-X film over my fogs. It won't have any affect on melting the snow/ice that accumulates on the lens but it may improve the driving experience during snow.

My Sierra had LED headlights/fog lights and I often drove it in snow with only the fog lights on, just to cut down on the glare. LEDs are far superior to halogen 99.9% of the time but there are instances where they aren't the best option.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The headlight washers on European cars are heated and work at high pressure. They work quite well at sub zero temps. I have a car from 2001 with these washers and there are no issues with the lenses.

Not according to some. I read of a complain from a BMW owner who said the washers didn't work well and he was having issues with his headlight. BMW= European last I checked.
It's a problem with some Korean makes as well.
So Europe is ahead of the USA - that's a given and it's been that way since at least the 1940s in automotive lighting, but they haven't solved the LED issues either.
Some LEDs are fine - there are some where the heat produced by the lights is redirected to the lens area. LEDs DO put off heat - just ask my wife about the LED strip I put on her sewing machine. It's not the diodes themselves, it's the support circuits. Some actually have cooling fins - heat sinks. The LED lights in my shop have some hefty heat sinks with many fins on them. I've aimed my remote thermometer gun at them and registered well over 100 degrees.
The problem is compounded by the wind across headlights - if you were sitting still they would be easier to heat but it's like a fan blowing across an air-cooled engine - the moving air takes the heat away pretty fast when it's -20 and blowing snow.
So the heating system would have to be hefty - and the heated "washers" would have to have a pretty large reservoir. When you are on the road for three hours in one of our blizzards you'd empty that sucker out pretty fast.
Likely something manufacturers won't want to invest in without some push-back - unless the feds get involved.

 

[Nimitzcvn68]

In today’s day and age I’m surprised their is not a simple solution for this issue. Some chemist/engineer should come up with a wax or film that that prevents this.

 

[Nimitzcvn68]

What really bothers me is the scratch on each post that runs diagonally up to the post #...lol

 

[Gatorized]

Posted this in the other thread on LEDs melting snow...
Need something like a rear window defroster that can overlay the lens.
https://www.frostfighter.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/12V-Master-Catalog-33A-11-21-2019.pdf Page 21
6.25 in (15.8) 5 Elements - Grid: Parallel-1, Series-5 12V
.
Part Number: 1205-0607
Modulation: 3%
Min. Length 5.9 in (15)
Max. Length 7.1 in (18)
Current
Peak 23.3A 19.4A RMS 4.1A 3.4A Avg. 0.7A 0.6A Fuse 5.0A 5.0A

 

[futzin']

In today’s day and age I’m surprised their is not a simple solution for this issue. Some chemist/engineer should come up with a wax or film that that prevents this.

Maybe Clark can help. After all, he came up with a non-nutritive cereal varnish. It's semi-permiable. It's not osmotic. What it does is it coats and seals.

 

[Nimitzcvn68]

Maybe Clark can help. After all, he came up with a non-nutritive cereal varnish. It's semi-permiable. It's not osmotic. What it does is it coats and seals.

I’m a mechanical designer I have some ideas.

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