Lets talk manual transmission and stalling.

[HTXGladiator]

pinky to kill the ASS

gonna need more than that!

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[Hipbilly]

gonna need more than that!

I wondered if anyone would get that.... I didn't even get it till after I posted it. hahahah

 

[kd1yt]

JT Sport S 6MT, owned since August. In my early 50s and way more of my driving along the way has been in MTs than ATs - I've had experiences driving everything from '60s aircooled VW MTs to F350 MTs (with towing clutch) - owned mostly MT vehicles - owned ATs only when a vehicle that I otherwise wanted had zero availability of MT.

Love the JT, love the 6MT transmission, despise the clutch, but it's worth putting up with the clutch to have the MT.

I've never had stalling issues with any other MT I've owned or driven, but this clutch's narrow engagement zone with totally ambiguous lack of feedback as to what is going on means I have stalled it enough to be frustrated with it. It happens less now that I am accustomed to it, but it still happens more than I would like and more than it should. The price on that Centerforce clutch is daunting, but if it actually makes it a whole lot better, it's pretty intriguing.

 

[Bbannongmu]

JT Sport S 6MT, owned since August. In my early 50s and way more of my driving along the way has been in MTs than ATs - I've had experiences driving everything from '60s aircooled VW MTs to F350 MTs (with towing clutch) - owned mostly MT vehicles - owned ATs only when a vehicle that I otherwise wanted had zero availability of MT.

Love the JT, love the 6MT transmission, despise the clutch, but it's worth putting up with the clutch to have the MT.

I've never had stalling issues with any other MT I've owned or driven, but this clutch's narrow engagement zone with totally ambiguous lack of feedback as to what is going on means I have stalled it enough to be frustrated with it. It happens less now that I am accustomed to it, but it still happens more than I would like and more than it should. The price on that Centerforce clutch is daunting, but if it actually makes it a whole lot better, it's pretty intriguing.

Centerforce clutch.....dying to here reviews

 

[kd1yt]

The Centerforce clutch is shouting my name, but it's way not at the top of my priority or budget list, at least not right away.

I'm not sure if the weirdness of this clutch is from having a dual mass flywheel, I don't think that anything I have driven before had a dual mass flywheel, at least not that I was aware of....

 

[Bbannongmu]

The Centerforce clutch is shouting my name, but it's way not at the top of my priority or budget list, at least not right away.

I'm not sure if the weirdness of this clutch is from having a dual mass flywheel, I don't think that anything I have driven before had a dual mass flywheel, at least not that I was aware of....

I hear ya. Hard to justify replacing stuff that isn’t broken. Here are the results on a JL 2 door.

 

[hjdca]

I hear ya. Hard to justify replacing stuff that isn’t broken. Here are the results on a JL 2 door.

Thanks ! Great Video ! and a good illustration of what a heavy flywheel can do for you while crawling. That is cool. Don't forget, nothing is for free...., the 18 lbs heavier flywheel will slightly hurt acceleration and maybe gas mileage. The factory puts in the lightest possible flywheel to get the most efficient drive train -- mileage, acceleration, weight, etc.... It's a compromise.

 

[kd1yt]

I'd also found that video and it is impressive what a difference it makes. I like engines with abundant torque at low RPMs, and while the heavier flywheel won't ever give the 3.6 as much _sustained_ low end torque as I would like, it might give a better approximation of brief low-end torque furnished by rotating momentum when engaging the clutch. I'd also think that a one piece flywheel might give a bit more of the 'feedback' when in the engagement zone than the OE dual-mass clutch. Heck, even the video seems to illustrate an increase in usable sustained torque at idle.

 

[KeithM]

I'd also found that video and it is impressive what a difference it makes. I like engines with abundant torque at low RPMs, and while the heavier flywheel won't ever give the 3.6 as much _sustained_ low end torque as I would like, it might give a better approximation of brief low-end torque furnished by rotating momentum when engaging the clutch. I'd also think that a one piece flywheel might give a bit more of the 'feedback' when in the engagement zone than the OE dual-mass clutch. Heck, even the video seems to illustrate an increase in usable sustained torque at idle.

My first impression of that video is that I was being fed marketing BS. How would a heavier flywheel help with a _sustained_ climb. My BS meter shot through the roof when they stalled - I've climbed some steep stuff idling my Rubicon in 4 Lo, even in second gear. This past weekend I pulled a F150 up a 17 degree grade, idling in first... I think a gearing swap would be a better investment for that scenario.

My stock manual JLUR is nearly perfect, however:
1) I took the spring out from behind the clutch pedal to lube because it was creaking
2) I think there is a low rpm tuning issue that a heavier flywheel might mask for me in the future. No matter how steady I hold the gas pedal, *sometimes* the Jeep doesn't want to stay steady. When I'm requesting 2% throttle, it seems the computer thinks I'm going back and forth from 0 to 5% requested.

 

[jimbom]

My first impression of that video is that I was being fed marketing BS. How would a heavier flywheel help with a _sustained_ climb. My BS meter shot through the roof when they stalled - I've climbed some steep stuff idling my Rubicon in 4 Lo, even in second gear. This past weekend I pulled a F150 up a 17 degree grade, idling in first... I think a gearing swap would be a better investment for that scenario.

My stock manual JLUR is nearly perfect, however:
1) I took the spring out from behind the clutch pedal to lube because it was creaking
2) I think there is a low rpm tuning issue that a heavier flywheel might mask for me in the future. No matter how steady I hold the gas pedal, *sometimes* the Jeep doesn't want to stay steady. When I'm requesting 2% throttle, it seems the computer thinks I'm going back and forth from 0 to 5% requested.

I'm with you, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I can only figure that if you're crawling up an incline on the verge of stalling and you hit some temporary, additional resistance (rock, burm, etc.,) the momentum of the flywheel might get you over that. But how can it possibly improve a steady, sustained climb? I would think a simpler, more effective fix would be to raise your idle speed some. (Maybe that's what they really did for the second part of their demonstration.)

 

[Bbannongmu]

I'm with you, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I can only figure that if you're crawling up an incline on the verge of stalling and you hit some temporary, additional resistance (rock, burm, etc.,) the momentum of the flywheel might get you over that. But how can it possibly improve a steady, sustained climb? I would think a simpler, more effective fix would be to raise your idle speed some. (Maybe that's what they really did for the second part of their demonstration.)

A heavier flywheel and clutch with more grip /friction material does exactly what centerforce is showing and it’s completely consistent with the law of conservation energy. That energy has to go somewhere. And it’s always spinning. The engine will be working a bit harder and you will see some additional fuel usage. How much is the question and if it’s worth it. Jeep went after fuel mileage it seems. No trickery involved - just more rotational mass and more friction being translated into forward movement of the Jeep.

 

[jimbom]

A heavier flywheel and clutch with more grip /friction material does exactly what centerforce is showing ....

I'll believe that their clutch performs and feels better as you engage and disengage it. But unless they are claiming that the standard clutch is slipping when you are crawling, the grip force when fully engaged makes no difference. In actuality, a slipping clutch is less likely to stall the engine (but of course is very bad for the clutch.)

... it’s completely consistent with the law of conservation energy. That energy has to go somewhere. And it’s always spinning.

The energy of the spinning mass can benefit your climb briefly, as I previously described. But that energy reserve is limited, it can't benefit a sustained, steady climb, as they are representing.

 

[Bbannongmu]

Here is Fourwheeler’s take https://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/...vier-flywheel-make-your-jeep-easier-to-drive/

 

[jimbom]

Here is Fourwheeler’s take https://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/...vier-flywheel-make-your-jeep-easier-to-drive/

Good article. Nothing there to dispute. No claims that it allows you to sustain a steeper grade.

I re-watched the video, and noticed a few details I hadn't before. He actually states that the engine is revving higher in the second run (500-600 vs 400-500.) No flywheel is going to make the jeep travel faster or the engine rev higher at idle (that's fixed by the cumulative engine to drive wheel gear ratio,) but surely it will help prevent lugging during brief encounters of resistance. Where the Jeep stalled perhaps there was a short rise in grade, a rut, or rocks or whatever. It looks like the grade drops the rest of the way after that point. It's not even clear it was the flywheel that helped as he takes a different line and even notes that erosion had changed the road since the first run.

Where the demo runs afoul is when he insinuates that the flywheel kept him going up this engine-killing incline and off into the sunset.

All that said, if I dislike the stock clutch as much as some do here, I would consider this clutch/flywheel upgrade for the more positive bite and to lessen lugging at take-off. When I test drove the truck, I actually liked the lightness of the clutch. (I'm still waiting for mine being shipped.) My wife had a particular Infiniti a few years ago with an awfully stiff clutch that left your left leg aching after any encounter with stop-and-go traffic.

 

[Bbannongmu]

I’m actually fine with the stock clutch and after the first day haven’t stalled since. I’m adding some engine sound with a Borla cat back setup and enjoying rowing my own gears.

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