Loose Steering?

[ShadowsPapa]

Put one on before I changed the box to see if would help.

I'll have to go back and see if you posted about that as I've been considering one just for kicks because I like the idea of such a brace for the trackbar and steering sector on a vehicle where the axle can move laterally. There's a lot of lateral or left to right forces as you drive and such a brace makes sense anyway, especially on rough roads.
My thing was - how hard would such an install be. I've yet to watch the videos.
I don't have issues, maybe it feels a bit "light" but that's about it.

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[Hoss63]

I'll have to go back and see if you posted about that as I've been considering one just for kicks because I like the idea of such a brace for the trackbar and steering sector on a vehicle where the axle can move laterally. There's a lot of lateral or left to right forces as you drive and such a brace makes sense anyway, especially on rough roads.
My thing was - how hard would such an install be. I've yet to watch the videos.
I don't have issues, maybe it feels a bit "light" but that's about it.

Was a fairly easy install, when I installed it did make it a little better. Need a 42mm socket to remove/reinstall pitman arm nut.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Was a fairly easy install, when I installed it did make it a little better. Need a 42mm socket to remove/reinstall pitman arm nut.

Thanks. I just checked as I was curious and my largest is 36mm (Eagle front axles - metric for some reason) - but buying larger isn't a problem. This is one of those things where it's a brace for two things at once and I know the trackbar is the perennial weak spot on solid axle front ends. If I plan on keeping and USING this as a truck, I see little reason to not look into a few things.

 

[JimThe4th]

Interesting thought. I have noticed that the alternator does NOT output a constant 14.4V. It ramps up and down depending on conditions. I will see if I can tie the voltage to turning...

So I'm now back to this. It has recently been below 50* where I live. And funny enough the alternator puts out full voltage always when below 50*. I don't know why, just an observation.

I feel that the steering was tighter when the voltage was at 14.4. And when it goes down, it gets looser. Maybe the lower voltage causes the less fluid through the steering box, causing a delayed steering response.

Thoughts?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So I'm now back to this. It has recently been below 50* where I live. And funny enough the alternator puts out full voltage always when below 50*. I don't know why, just an observation.

I feel that the steering was tighter when the voltage was at 14.4. And when it goes down, it gets looser. Maybe the lower voltage causes the less fluid through the steering box, causing a delayed steering response.

Thoughts?

What do you view as "full voltage" ??
Let's say regulated voltage is 14.4 - which it could be. The amperage is self-regulated. It can only put out within 90% of max to max. So a 220 amp alternator will put out 198 to 220 amps.
If the load at a given time is 230 amps, the voltage will be below 14.4. There are times when the voltage will not be at regulated voltage, depending on battery charge, load on the system, temperature and other factors.
If the battery (or batteries with ESS) are full, the load is light, the alternator will be regulated to that 14.4 (again, just as an example, I don't know the regulated voltage spec on these).
If the battery (or batteries) are low, the fans running on full, lights on, other things going on, it won't hit 14.4 volts.

 

[JimThe4th]

Next time you're driving around, turn your display to the charging system voltage that is shown on your dashboard. The charging system in the gladiator is much more sophisticated than an old alternator only would be. The voltage fluctuates from 12 volts when the car is off, it averages about 13.5 volts while under operation, and as you are breaking it ramps up to 14.4 volts. Now when it is below 50° outside it always reads 14.4 volts, this means the charging system is doing different things at different times based on conditions. I am merely trying to correlate the loose steering to what might be a change in voltage that could cause a lower pressure on the power steering system.

 

[Hoss63]

Next time you're driving around, turn your display to the charging system voltage that is shown on your dashboard. The charging system in the gladiator is much more sophisticated than an old alternator only would be. The voltage fluctuates from 12 volts when the car is off, it averages about 13.5 volts while under operation, and as you are breaking it ramps up to 14.4 volts. Now when it is below 50° outside it always reads 14.4 volts, this means the charging system is doing different things at different times based on conditions. I am merely trying to correlate the loose steering to what might be a change in voltage that could cause a lower pressure on the power steering system.

The voltage should not have any effect on the looseness of the steering as it would only make a difference on how heavy or light the steering feels as there’s a direct connection between the steering wheel and the tires through the gear box. That would only make a difference if it where a full hydraulic steering system.

 

[JimThe4th]

The voltage should not have any effect on the looseness of the steering as it would only make a difference on how heavy or light the steering feels as there’s a direct connection between the steering wheel and the tires through the gear box. That would only make a difference if it where a full hydraulic steering system.

I disagree with this statement, the voltage has a direct link to the hydraulic pressure from the electrically driven hydraulic pump.if the pump has low pressure the steering might not respond in time. I Believe this is how the new electric hydraulic steering works in these vehicles, the pressure of the system has to be tied to the voltage of the pump

 

[Hoss63]

I disagree with this statement, the voltage has a direct link to the hydraulic pressure from the electrically driven hydraulic pump.if the pump has low pressure the steering might not respond in time. I Believe this is how the new electric hydraulic steering works in these vehicles, the pressure of the system has to be tied to the voltage of the pump

If that were the case you wouldn’t have steering if the vehicle was not on. The system works just like a vehicle with a belt driven pump.

 

[JimThe4th]

If that were the case you wouldn’t have steering if the vehicle was not on. The system works just like a vehicle with a belt driven pump.

Yes, but if the voltage changes, the hydraulic pressure changes, affecting gear box response...maybe

I'm only asking those of you out there with this above and below 50° condition to see if I'm crazy or if there is actually a correlation

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Next time you're driving around, turn your display to the charging system voltage that is shown on your dashboard. The charging system in the gladiator is much more sophisticated than an old alternator only would be. The voltage fluctuates from 12 volts when the car is off, it averages about 13.5 volts while under operation, and as you are breaking it ramps up to 14.4 volts. Now when it is below 50° outside it always reads 14.4 volts, this means the charging system is doing different things at different times based on conditions. I am merely trying to correlate the loose steering to what might be a change in voltage that could cause a lower pressure on the power steering system.

I know that - I know how and where to read it.
And I know there's STILL a maximum regulated voltage.
There are other controls in these, but there's still a max. I deal with auto electric systems. I rebuild and restore and test alternators. I deal with these things.
There is a max. There has to be. It may well be the 14.4 because otherwise you will overcharge the battery, you'll get it hot and ruin it. It's not like the older batteries but they STILL can be fried.
So there's a maximum voltage. Period. The other voltages are typically based on load, battery charge state and so on.

Now envision this - you have all of the lights on, you are towing, it's 100 degrees out, you have the AC on, the fans cooling the engine are on max, you have that thing cranking out all it can - you'll likely be pulling the voltage down under the 14.4 - do you really think that the steering will be impacted if the voltage pulls down to 13 volts?
That pump will have an operating range, likely from 12 to 16 volts.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yes, but if the voltage changes, the hydraulic pressure changes, affecting gear box response...maybe

I'm only asking those of you out there with this above and below 50° condition to see if I'm crazy or if there is actually a correlation

Not any 1 to 1.5 volt change. That's within normal operating range of the whole electrical system.
And even if it did change pressures slightly - it won't impact LOOSENESS or PLAY. We're talking play here. Not how hard or easy it is to turn the wheel. Pressure only changes the ASSIST you get, or lack of assist. Easier to turn, less easy to turn. That's all pressure means. Nothing more, nothing less.
A change of a volt or so won't impact that.
A volt, even 1.5, is easily withing the range of the thing when operating.

My steering doesn't change one bit and I've had mine in -10 to 60 degrees so far - not a bit of difference.

 

[Hoss63]

Not any 1 to 1.5 volt change. That's within normal operating range of the whole electrical system.
And even if it did change pressures slightly - it won't impact LOOSENESS or PLAY. We're talking play here. Not how hard or easy it is to turn the wheel. Pressure only changes the ASSIST you get, or lack of assist. Easier to turn, less easy to turn. That's all pressure means. Nothing more, nothing less.
A change of a volt or so won't impact that.
A volt, even 1.5, is easily withing the range of the thing when operating.

My steering doesn't change one bit and I've had mine in -10 to 60 degrees so far - not a bit of difference.

Thank you

 

[JimThe4th]

http://www.generalricambispa.com/car-spare-parts/steering/electric-power-steering-pumps/

Here is a generic electric power steering pump write up. It states a reduction in output at higher speed. I was trying to correlate what I noticed with voltage. I understand now that is incorrect.

I wonder if Jeep has preprogrammed this dead spot?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

http://www.generalricambispa.com/car-spare-parts/steering/electric-power-steering-pumps/

Here is a generic electric power steering pump write up. It states a reduction in output at higher speed. I was trying to correlate what I noticed with voltage. I understand now that is incorrect.

I wonder if Jeep has preprogrammed this dead spot?

Preprogrammed a dead spot? Huh? The steering sector is still a recirculating ball type, power assist.
Why would they program PLAY into the steering system, and how would they? It's a typical steering sector. Pretty old-school.

You need more assist at low speeds, or stopped, than you do at highway speeds, for example. That is where the electric system is better than the physical pump. With the belt drive you have LOWER pressure due to low RPM when trying to park or turn around at low speeds, in town and so on. And you have highest assist of all places, on the HIGHWAY at 70 mph!
Backwards.
So the electric can SAVE ENGINE POWER and SAVE FUEL by cutting the assist on the highway - but you will not see it at the volt meter because that's system voltage, not the pump.

When driving down the highway pulling a trailer you need power to pull - not turn the wheels.

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