Loose Steering?

[Snake Eyes]

I have the Sport S Max Tow and it is fine. I can let go of the wheel at 65 mph and it stays straight as a bird. I generally can drive it with one hand a few fingers on the bottom of the steering wheel. I have driven it with a 55 mph side wind and other than the force of the brick push the steering help well keeping me in the lane. Everything is stock on mine. All my changes have been aesthetics.

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[The Bean]

I can't believe this is still happening to people. The steel box was supposed to be the correction. It dramatically corrected mine. Yet from the factory they are still sloppy.

This is just my opinion, but there really is only so much you can do for a solid axle vehicle using a steering box. Stabilizers, upgraded steering boxes, etc. can all help. But ultimately there is still a limit to how much slack you can really rectify in the steering.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

No solid axle Jeep should wander around, it's complete bullshit when people shrug and say "Jeep thing".

Got that right. Even the service writer at the local dealership said "these shouldn't be that way".
They never hesitated on the steering gear replacement after driving it 5 minutes. It was better, but over the winter actually got worse than the first one.
Took it back, told them what I thought and just said "you drive it and decide". Next thing I know they said "we need to replace your steering gear".
On a decent highway, without our typical winds, I can cruise along at 70 mph and keep it straight without effort at all.
It does go to the right when there's road crown, but then it goes slightly left when I'm in the left lane with opposite crown.
It responds promptly to any steering wheel input.
It's not loose, doesn't wander and if I need to make any correction (like I get distracted), it responds fine.
It could have a tighter ratio, and likely this one needs more caster since it's in the low side of caster, but it's not loose.

My wife's GC has crazy quick steering - you find yourself needing to correct, move that wheel 1/4" and you are turning a corner.

 

[Bobchadwickga]

It's the difference between recirculating ball and rack & pinion steering.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This is just my opinion, but there really is only so much you can do for a solid axle vehicle using a steering box. Stabilizers, upgraded steering boxes, etc. can all help. But ultimately there is still a limit to how much slack you can really rectify in the steering.

Why? There are fewer joints in the steering of a solid axle vehicle.
With IFS, you have the drag link with a joint at the pitman and at the idler arm, then you have tie rods going to each wheel from the drag link, each of those having 2 joints. Then you have the upper and lower control arms where there are ball joints and inner bushings to wear, allowing play.
It we compare both types on a decent highway, not a lot of bumps and dips, both should handle or steer about the same.
The disadvantage goes to solid axle because as the axle end swings up or down, it swings in an arc differently than the steering linkage where with IFS, the tie rods pivot in a point about the same as the lower control arms meaning the tie rods keep the same relative positions as the control arms on rough roads.
But on a highway, there shouldn't be any difference.
The Grand Cherokee had a solid axle for years - and steered like many cars. If you didn't know the difference, you'd never know by the steering. My wife has had several and she is real picky if there's a problem, and she came out of Camaro and into Grand Cherokee with no hesitation. That was when the ZJ and WJ were solid front axle.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's the difference between recirculating ball and rack & pinion steering.

No, because the rack and pinion is relatively new to vehicles in general.
Yes, rack and pinion is quick and tight, but that's the case no matter what you compare it to that has recirculating ball steering.
Ratio has a lot to do with it. Quick ratio or variable ratio steering can make a big difference.
Maybe people are spoiled by modern rack and pinion, but it wasn't long ago at all that the majority of cars and trucks didn't have it.
So if people are griping because they have only ever driven rack and pinion and that's all they know so they gripe - then I say DUH!
And maybe that's the case - first time buyers have never in their lives driven anything without quick ratio rack and pinion - they've got no experience on which to base complaints.

 

[JET_83]

I have the Sport S Max Tow and it is fine. I can let go of the wheel at 65 mph and it stays straight as a bird. I generally can drive it with one hand a few fingers on the bottom of the steering wheel. I have driven it with a 55 mph side wind and other than the force of the brick push the steering help well keeping me in the lane. Everything is stock on mine. All my changes have been aesthetics.

Makes sense because of the tires and doesn’t have the lift like the others

 

[JET_83]

Makes sense because of the tires and doesn’t have the lift like the others

@ShadowsPapa, what’s the sole purpose of Jeep choosing the solid axle over IFS if both can off road just as well?

 

[dcmdon]

I can't believe this is still happening to people. The steel box was supposed to be the correction. It dramatically corrected mine. Yet from the factory they are still sloppy.

Its pretty clear on the JL forum (lots more on the road, and lots more members) that you can tighten the stock box and greatly improve it. I wonder how many of the ones where people say "It steers great" are on the tight end of the adjustment as it came from the factory and the people who say "Its loose" are on the loose end of the adjustment.

Mine doesn't steer great, even for a Gladiator. Its a '22 and has the steel box. So I may take a quarter turn on the adjuster. I've been putting it off because I hate ripping out all the stuff in order to get to it.

 

[WetWilly]

Every solid axle Jeep I have ever owned has had the pull to the left or right depending on the terrain and tires. It's not a Trim level thing, it's basically comes down to them being solid axles and the type of tires your running, tread design, some will be worse than others, it's still going to do it. Never understood why people get so worked up over it, years and years of research and post about Wranglers doing it, you would think by now people would just accept it or buy something else.

I remember my CJ-5 back in the day, it took a pint of Wild Turkey just to get up the nerve to drive it. My Comanche had a mind of its own as well.

 

[Rahkmalla]

@ShadowsPapa, what’s the sole purpose of Jeep choosing the solid axle over IFS if both can off road just as well?

They can both do general offroading just as well. SFA is vastly superior for rock crawling. You just can't articulate an IFS like you can an SFA.

People are doing solid front axle swaps on the new bronco, and it's not a cheap swap.

 

[GOT FLOYD]

It sucks that there any issues with these vehicles but my 21 Mojave has 10k with No issues and I hope you find a remedy and enjoy it for years to come in

 

[Lunentucker]

A quarter turn is likely to be way too much. Go a clock position at a time.


As someone who has spent WAY more time researching the steering issues on these things than I had ever hoped to, I can tell the OP a couple of things.

1. A lot of Gladiators come from the factory with a host of issues regarding the steering.
2. The problem seems to be markedly worse in the Mojave package.

Is it the different suspension and shocks?
Is it the different ride height?
Is it all of that and more?
I don't know, but as soon as I can get an order in for a '23 Rubicon I think that's where I am headed.

I drove a 22 that the dealer had on the lot, while waiting to have mine checked out again, and the difference is appreciable. Was that Rubicon a lottery winner? Who knows?
I probably would've traded then and there if it had been the color I wanted with the options I wanted.

A lot of the current vehicles were built under the unusual times of covid. Supply problems. Labor problems. What else? (rhetorical)

I will not have another Mojave. It's a shame, because I think it's the best looking of all of them. But looks only go so far.

With the majority of my steering issues resolved through work and parts I have done on my own, the next big things on my Mojave are the CEL single cylinder misfire under heavy acceleration, and the newfound knowledge that the shocks have to be, or should be serviced at some point down the road, involving possibly going weeks with nothing to drive.

I wanted a truck, not a dependent.

In addition to my comments in other posts about the steering gearbox adjustment, stabilizer replacement , tire pressures, alignment, rear stabilizer hanger lost bolt, and geometry correction brackets, watch and learn about how to test the steering system for slop movement here.





BTW - I've been off road once.

Yeah, it's depressing to have spent that much money on something and be faced with these gloomy prospects of having to diagnose and fix problems yourself, because "It's a Jeep thing".
You have my sympathy and empathy on that.

Good luck and keep us posted. We're putting together a thousand piece puzzle here, and you might have that one little piece we've all been missing because the cat played with it last night.

 

[Lunentucker]

For those who keep tinkering with the steering gearbox.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VRS17JP (Style 23)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

@ShadowsPapa, what’s the sole purpose of Jeep choosing the solid axle over IFS if both can off road just as well?

Meh, there's still more articulating to the solid than IFS. Yes, IFS has matured and improved, but there's still only so much that can be done.

The upper control arm of Bronco straddles the spring, and the steering knuckle rides fairly close, so that upper arm can only swing down so far before it has to stop, there's no way around it. They did compensate by curving the knuckle back behind the spring and the upper control arm is also configured to keep the ball joint to the rear of the spring. They gained ground there, but the upper arm itself still can swing down only so far.
I am not going to trash the Bronco - they clearly aimed for a good on-road experience. Lower unsprung weight, R&P steering, they aimed for more road, occasional off-road with some limits.

A solid axle pivots almost from the opposite side of the vehicle, IFS pivots on the same side as the control arms and only a few inches in. It's just impossible to get the same articulation. Can't be done.

The strength of the arms and the tie rods sort of makes me nervous - I can see those busting if you tried to keep up with your buddy's Wrangler in really rough, rocky places.

But max articulation wasn't their goal. Stability and tight steering on the road, even rough roads, handling washboard roads better, it's a compromise and I can see people buying them who don't climb 60" tall rocks every weekend but want to get off road and not get caught crossing a ravine.

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