Manual Transmission Club

[chrcal14]

Not sure how you mean. Seems the same as the last model and how do you compare the 2 anyway. I think what it comes down to is that 4x4 taxes power and without lower ratio available on MT short of ruby (which I think totally sucks and uncalled for) moving momentum has to be much higher to sustain the RPM. This makes for a crappy off road experience and short clutch life.

I've only experienced kind of what you're saying with a cold engine, but I do have a Rubicon. Until the engine warms up, the RPMs stay a little high, 1st gear is too low, and 2nd is a bit too fast for banging around in the parking lot. I generally shift to 2nd and ride the brake lightly. Once the RPMs come down all is well.

I compared the slight incline thing on a mild upgrade in the driveway at work. With hill start on, I couldn't idle the clutch out without gas pedal without stalling, with hill start off I could slip the clutch out no gas and not stall. It's been an improvement to starts in all circumstances. Never had it with manuals of the past, so I don't feel any need for it.

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[hawkijon]

Not sure how you mean. Seems the same as the last model and how do you compare the 2 anyway. I think what it comes down to is that 4x4 taxes power and without lower ratio available on MT short of ruby (which I think totally sucks and uncalled for) moving momentum has to be much higher to sustain the RPM. This makes for a crappy off road experience and short clutch life.

I believe i experienced the same thing when i first got the truck and was getting familiar with it, but havent noticed it since i started deactivated hill assist and remember to turn off the auto start/stop when i start the engine. Also, when off road, dont forget to turn off traction control as it will rev limit your RPMs. Unless on an incline, i have

I've only experienced kind of what you're saying with a cold engine, but I do have a Rubicon. Until the engine warms up, the RPMs stay a little high, 1st gear is too low, and 2nd is a bit too fast for banging around in the parking lot. I generally shift to 2nd and ride the brake lightly. Once the RPMs come down all is well.

I compared the slight incline thing on a mild upgrade in the driveway at work. With hill start on, I couldn't idle the clutch out without gas pedal without stalling, with hill start off I could slip the clutch out no gas and not stall. It's been an improvement to starts in all circumstances. Never had it with manuals of the past, so I don't feel any need for it.

Well said, and i totally agree..

 

[kostik76]

Now i need to go see how to deactivate hill assist. Maybe I am thinking of something else, when you on an incline and you hit the clutch and shift into a gear it will hold you for a few seconds enough to get going. If this is what you are talking about I have no idea how to turn it off. I will be hunting this weekend so will try to disable the traction which I agree should help with the staling out issue.
On another note, do you guys understand why the capacities with manual are lower? I am going to haul my ATV in the bed with rear wheel hanging on the gate, I tried loading it (which exceeded the capacity by 2x) and had no issue doing it. Half of the weight of the ATV is within the capacity listed for the gate (assuming the capacity is for in motion). Any case let me know if you did something like this and if you had any issues. If you want to see the picture I started a thread for it, not much interest there https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/posts/381095/.

Thanks

 

[hawkijon]

Now i need to go see how to deactivate hill assist. Maybe I am thinking of something else, when you on an incline and you hit the clutch and shift into a gear it will hold you for a few seconds enough to get going. If this is what you are talking about I have no idea how to turn it off. I will be hunting this weekend so will try to disable the traction which I agree should help with the staling out issue.
On another note, do you guys understand why the capacities with manual are lower? I am going to haul my ATV in the bed with rear wheel hanging on the gate, I tried loading it (which exceeded the capacity by 2x) and had no issue doing it. Half of the weight of the ATV is within the capacity listed for the gate (assuming the capacity is for in motion). Any case let me know if you did something like this and if you had any issues. If you want to see the picture I started a thread for it, not much interest there https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/posts/381095/.

Thanks

Some very good questions.. I’m not sure what model or uconnect you have but if you start my video at 3min,

I explain the method of disabling the auto start stop and hill assist. If its not accessable via your radio screen setting options, the what you disabled it in the JK was:
- With wheels straight and steering wheel at 12 o’clock, Shifter in neutral, park brake on
-turn engine on
-depress brake and clutch
-press traction control button on dash 4 times
-turn wheel to driver side 180deg to 6 o’clock position
-turn wheel back to passenger 360deg to 6oclock position and hold
- turn ending off and wait 5 secs
-turn key forward and traction control dummy light should blink 4 times if it’s been deactivated.
As far for the tranny rating, it’s the same aisin manual transmission designed for the tow capacity of the JL. The 4500# tow rating for manual is more for an enthusiast than that of towing practical. The auto is brute and designed for the half tons truck towing. Honestly, if your planning to be towing 4500# to 7500# with a 5000# truck very often, you probably need to rethink your transmission or vehicle. One of the youtubers trailered a mustang with his manual JT sport s and it did fine, but probably isn’t ideal for the vehicle over a long period. He later found out the 7600# capacity was for autos only. Hope this helps!

 

[chrcal14]

Now i need to go see how to deactivate hill assist. Maybe I am thinking of something else, when you on an incline and you hit the clutch and shift into a gear it will hold you for a few seconds enough to get going. If this is what you are talking about I have no idea how to turn it off. I will be hunting this weekend so will try to disable the traction which I agree should help with the staling out issue.
On another note, do you guys understand why the capacities with manual are lower? I am going to haul my ATV in the bed with rear wheel hanging on the gate, I tried loading it (which exceeded the capacity by 2x) and had no issue doing it. Half of the weight of the ATV is within the capacity listed for the gate (assuming the capacity is for in motion). Any case let me know if you did something like this and if you had any issues. If you want to see the picture I started a thread for it, not much interest there https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/posts/381095/.

Thanks

Well, wanted to start with weight. Appears the Sportsman 500 is just north of 700, maybe 750 with fuel.

Depending on your truck there's probably enough payload for that.

The tailgate would be my worry. That's a lot of bounce back there, even assuming less than half the weight is on the rear wheels.

Given even the manual tow rating, that's easy peasy for a little aluminum flatbed. Strap it down and go. Probably have 1250 to 1500 lbs ATV and trailer, shouldn't bother it a bit.

 

[mojocho]

about 1k miles on my Rubi M/T. Stock lift with Falken M/T 33s. Have had manuals in the past (Mazda 3, Ford Fusion, Mustang GT). Also ride sportbikes so I think i have some basic MT experience albeit very different applications. Also had a '13 JKUR with 2 in lift on 35's with auto tranny.

So a couple of things...One complaint and one question.

First question is around the 1st gear. This is the shortest 1st gear I've ever had. When pulling from a stop being first in line, I feel I have to shift before I even get through the intersection. I'm always seeing the car behind me have to brake behind me due to my sudden pause. Is this something I just have to deal with or am I approaching this all wrong? I notice I feel the need for a larger than normal space whenever I need to pull out from a side street into traffic. If the start is a flat or slight downhill I'll occasionally start in 2nd to avoid this. Not sure if that is a bad idea. But I know I can't do that with an uphill start. I've read this entire thread and tried all the different shift points, but man. I just hate that.

Been thinking about going to 35's after these tires are done, but not sure if that will change anything.

One complaint I have is more a funny first world problem observation. THis is my first vehicle with heated steering wheel. I mean come on. Really? Gloves are no longer enough? Enter early winter. LOVE THEM. So toasty. So my complaint is that the stick shift knob needs to be heated!!. I have a one cold hand and one warm when I'm in stop and go traffic.

Overall, despite the 1st gear, I love this Jeep. I missed my pick up when I got the JKU, but knew that I'd never own a non-Jeep again. Doors off and top down. SOLD for life. Now I've got the best of both worlds. Love the rest of the gears and shifting is smooth and enjoyable. I feel engaged in my driving and love the truck.

Thanks for reading my babble.

 

[hjdca]

about 1k miles on my Rubi M/T. Stock lift with Falken M/T 33s. Have had manuals in the past (Mazda 3, Ford Fusion, Mustang GT). Also ride sportbikes so I think i have some basic MT experience albeit very different applications. Also had a '13 JKUR with 2 in lift on 35's with auto tranny.

So a couple of things...One complaint and one question.

First question is around the 1st gear. This is the shortest 1st gear I've ever had. When pulling from a stop being first in line, I feel I have to shift before I even get through the intersection. I'm always seeing the car behind me have to brake behind me due to my sudden pause. Is this something I just have to deal with or am I approaching this all wrong? I notice I feel the need for a larger than normal space whenever I need to pull out from a side street into traffic. If the start is a flat or slight downhill I'll occasionally start in 2nd to avoid this. Not sure if that is a bad idea. But I know I can't do that with an uphill start. I've read this entire thread and tried all the different shift points, but man. I just hate that.

Been thinking about going to 35's after these tires are done, but not sure if that will change anything.

One complaint I have is more a funny first world problem observation. THis is my first vehicle with heated steering wheel. I mean come on. Really? Gloves are no longer enough? Enter early winter. LOVE THEM. So toasty. So my complaint is that the stick shift knob needs to be heated!!. I have a one cold hand and one warm when I'm in stop and go traffic.

Overall, despite the 1st gear, I love this Jeep. I missed my pick up when I got the JKU, but knew that I'd never own a non-Jeep again. Doors off and top down. SOLD for life. Now I've got the best of both worlds. Love the rest of the gears and shifting is smooth and enjoyable. I feel engaged in my driving and love the truck.

Thanks for reading my babble.

Here is what I do with first gear --- I move off the line pretty fast and quickly get to 4K rpm, then, comfortably shift to second. This will give you plenty of rolling speed to go to second comfortably way past the intersection. It is still a pretty quick shift, but, you are moving much faster and second gear seems more normal.

PS. While 4 wheeling last weekend, I had to use 1st gear low lock, granny, to make a turn on a hill. I was super impressed how I could go from forward to reverse to forward with practically no clutch and inching along to make the off-camber turn. It is a super nice gear when you need it.

 

[hawkijon]

Here is what I do with first gear --- I move off the line pretty fast and quickly get to 4K rpm, then, comfortably shift to second. This will give you plenty of rolling speed to go to second comfortably way past the intersection. It is still a pretty quick shift, but, you are moving much faster and second gear seems more normal.

PS. While 4 wheeling last weekend, I had to use 1st gear low lock, granny, to make a turn on a hill. I was super impressed how I could go from forward to reverse to forward with practically no clutch and inching along to make the off-camber turn. It is a super nice gear when you need it.

i couldnt agree more with what you have mentioned. Obviously high rev's doesn't contribute to fuel economy, but that aside, this engine/tranny combo really likes to shift around 3k RPM, atleast 1st through 3rd gears...I agree 1st is really short, but it takes little to no rev effort to get it rolling in 2HI, and 4LO is literally a cake walk in a tank. 1st gear would definitely be useful if you were trailering a load withing the tow range <4500#. Id say as long as your not partially engaging at high rev on your clutch (excessive wear) then let 'er ripp!!

 

[mhunnesh]

about 1k miles on my Rubi M/T. Stock lift with Falken M/T 33s. Have had manuals in the past (Mazda 3, Ford Fusion, Mustang GT). Also ride sportbikes so I think i have some basic MT experience albeit very different applications. Also had a '13 JKUR with 2 in lift on 35's with auto tranny.

So a couple of things...One complaint and one question.

First question is around the 1st gear. This is the shortest 1st gear I've ever had. When pulling from a stop being first in line, I feel I have to shift before I even get through the intersection. I'm always seeing the car behind me have to brake behind me due to my sudden pause. Is this something I just have to deal with or am I approaching this all wrong? I notice I feel the need for a larger than normal space whenever I need to pull out from a side street into traffic. If the start is a flat or slight downhill I'll occasionally start in 2nd to avoid this. Not sure if that is a bad idea. But I know I can't do that with an uphill start. I've read this entire thread and tried all the different shift points, but man. I just hate that.

Been thinking about going to 35's after these tires are done, but not sure if that will change anything.

One complaint I have is more a funny first world problem observation. THis is my first vehicle with heated steering wheel. I mean come on. Really? Gloves are no longer enough? Enter early winter. LOVE THEM. So toasty. So my complaint is that the stick shift knob needs to be heated!!. I have a one cold hand and one warm when I'm in stop and go traffic.

Overall, despite the 1st gear, I love this Jeep. I missed my pick up when I got the JKU, but knew that I'd never own a non-Jeep again. Doors off and top down. SOLD for life. Now I've got the best of both worlds. Love the rest of the gears and shifting is smooth and enjoyable. I feel engaged in my driving and love the truck.

Thanks for reading my babble.

Having same issue with 1st. Will try to make myself go higher RPM before shift.

Thought the exact same thing about needing a heated shift knob! Have heated wheel, so why not?

 

[mojocho]

I guess when I'm heavier on the throttle, then the transition from 1st to 2nd is neck jarring for passengers. I tried shifting at 3k, 3500, and 4k. THe longer I wait to shift, the more RPMs it drops. I.e. shifting at 4k drops the RPMS to 2500 before I get going again. It's such a fast drop.

But if I'm being causal with the throttle then shifts are smooth and no bunny hopping.

Well, I appreciate the comments. I was hoping there was a magic formula to address it. I thought I heard larger tires impacts this issue, but don't recall if it was for better or worse.


Still need a mod for heated shift knob...Otherwise I'll have to pull my Michael Jackson gloves out.

 

[hawkijon]

I guess when I'm heavier on the throttle, then the transition from 1st to 2nd is neck jarring for passengers. I tried shifting at 3k, 3500, and 4k. THe longer I wait to shift, the more RPMs it drops. I.e. shifting at 4k drops the RPMS to 2500 before I get going again. It's such a fast drop.

But if I'm being causal with the throttle then shifts are smooth and no bunny hopping.

Well, I appreciate the comments. I was hoping there was a magic formula to address it. I thought I heard larger tires impacts this issue, but don't recall if it was for better or worse.


Still need a mod for heated shift knob...Otherwise I'll have to pull my Michael Jackson gloves out.

isotoners for the win!! Yea i understand what you are saying. Modern transmissions do not require this, but i even tried double clutching (bring vehicle to speed, push clutch in and remove from gear, release clutch out while stick is in between gears, push clutch in and move to desired gear, release clutch out) and it still shifts pretty smooth. The idea is to buffer mismatched speeds between the engine and the trans and syncing them between shifts. It takes a bit of coordination, but its another shift tactic to try.

 

[mojocho]

isotoners for the win!! Yea i understand what you are saying. Modern transmissions do not require this, but i even tried double clutching (bring vehicle to speed, push clutch in and remove from gear, release clutch out while stick is in between gears, push clutch in and move to desired gear, release clutch out) and it still shifts pretty smooth. The idea is to buffer mismatched speeds between the engine and the trans and syncing them between shifts. It takes a bit of coordination, but its another shift tactic to try.

I appreciate that. I'll gave it try, but man I'm just not coordinated enough to do that quickly. I ended up taking forever and was sure I'd get rear ended.

 

[Elwenil]

Double clutching is not needed on any synchronized transmission. The first gear is lower, though actually not that low, for pulling power much like my old NP435 4 speed with it's granny gear. Even though my granny gear (6.69:1) is not synchronized, it still does not require double clutching. I just match the RPMs a bit and it shifts smoothly and quickly unless it's cold and the gear oil is thick. I actually use my granny gear all the time, though most people just use a truck 4 speed as a 3 speed and ignore the granny gear unless they need to pull. With my 37s, only 4.10 axle gears and a rather worn TBI 318, it helps to get the truck rolling with granny gear, then immediately shift to second. If the 3.6L has enough balls to pull second from a roll, that is what I would do it just get rolling a little in 1st, then jump to 2nd as soon as you can. Naturally the torque, RPM and vehicle speed are going to determine if the engine lugs so it may take a bit of experimentation to get a good combination but soon it will be second nature and you won't even think about it. I don't even worry about using my granny gear anymore which is why it catches me off guard when it grinds a bit going into second on cold mornings sometimes. Shifting is a muscle memory sort of thing and once you get used to the rhythm and sound/vibration you should be able to shift quickly and smoothly without any issues. But either way a "short" first gear is not a bad thing and shouldn't hamper you getting up to speed very much.

The only worry I have is the cable shifter, which can vary the feel a little depending on the conditions. Some cables have mushy bushings to protect the transmission from someone forcing it into gear or getting too hard on the shift forks and they tend to make everything a little weird at times. I haven't gotten a chance to look at the cables on a JT yet, just some pictures in the parts manuals, but it doesn't look like there are any of that type of bushings used in them. There could be something else in the design that serves the same purpose. Just my ,02

 

[hjdca]

I guess when I'm heavier on the throttle, then the transition from 1st to 2nd is neck jarring for passengers. I tried shifting at 3k, 3500, and 4k. THe longer I wait to shift, the more RPMs it drops. I.e. shifting at 4k drops the RPMS to 2500 before I get going again. It's such a fast drop.

But if I'm being causal with the throttle then shifts are smooth and no bunny hopping.

Well, I appreciate the comments. I was hoping there was a magic formula to address it. I thought I heard larger tires impacts this issue, but don't recall if it was for better or worse.


Still need a mod for heated shift knob...Otherwise I'll have to pull my Michael Jackson gloves out.

The neck jarring is caused by the 1st to 2nd fast shift with the gas still pressed too much. You can accelerate pretty fast in first, lets say to 3500 rpm, then, more deliberately shift to second and match the revs -- so you do not lurch forward. If the gas pedal is pressed too much during the shift, then the Jeep will always lurch forward because your dropping the clutch with the engine rev'd too much.

 

[chrcal14]

about 1k miles on my Rubi M/T. Stock lift with Falken M/T 33s. Have had manuals in the past (Mazda 3, Ford Fusion, Mustang GT). Also ride sportbikes so I think i have some basic MT experience albeit very different applications. Also had a '13 JKUR with 2 in lift on 35's with auto tranny.

So a couple of things...One complaint and one question.

First question is around the 1st gear. This is the shortest 1st gear I've ever had. When pulling from a stop being first in line, I feel I have to shift before I even get through the intersection. I'm always seeing the car behind me have to brake behind me due to my sudden pause. Is this something I just have to deal with or am I approaching this all wrong? I notice I feel the need for a larger than normal space whenever I need to pull out from a side street into traffic. If the start is a flat or slight downhill I'll occasionally start in 2nd to avoid this. Not sure if that is a bad idea. But I know I can't do that with an uphill start. I've read this entire thread and tried all the different shift points, but man. I just hate that.

Been thinking about going to 35's after these tires are done, but not sure if that will change anything.

One complaint I have is more a funny first world problem observation. THis is my first vehicle with heated steering wheel. I mean come on. Really? Gloves are no longer enough? Enter early winter. LOVE THEM. So toasty. So my complaint is that the stick shift knob needs to be heated!!. I have a one cold hand and one warm when I'm in stop and go traffic.

Overall, despite the 1st gear, I love this Jeep. I missed my pick up when I got the JKU, but knew that I'd never own a non-Jeep again. Doors off and top down. SOLD for life. Now I've got the best of both worlds. Love the rest of the gears and shifting is smooth and enjoyable. I feel engaged in my driving and love the truck.

Thanks for reading my babble.

My first heated steering wheel too, and I only just recently realized it turns itself on. Wondered why my hands were getting hot! And the butt warmer is really warm, and gets there fast. I have those things on for about 30 seconds before turning them off. Maybe when it gets truly cold they'll be more welcome.

35s might let you stay in 1st a little longer just rolling a bigger tire around so the RPMs will be lower. Obviously not why you'd be doing it but a nice fringe benefit. I got mine with 37s, so I don't know the comparative change.

As for shifting through the intersection, yeah, that's a thing. I'm only in 1st for a second to get rolling and straight to second. I'm probably barely in the intersection before I shift. That's not all that odd to me, driven enough low geared work trucks I suppose.

The other driver thing is real as well. Not only are most people unable to drive manuals, they're not accustomed to driving around them. I've had a few people right on my bumper on hills that I probably wouldn't have given much thought to with recent auto transmissions. I enjoy the sport of looking in the rearview as I intentionally drift back a little, just to put the reminder out there in the general population. Make it a fun and educational thing.

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