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Mark Allen Says Full Electric Jeeps Can Be Even More Capable Off-Roaders

Kent5

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But we gotta differentiate between electric off-road vehicle and electric “overlanding” vehicle, whatever your definition of overlanding is.

Not everyone is going to do multi-day 200+ mile trips away from civilization. Heck, most people don’t even take their Jeeps off-pavement!

I’m about to take the JT out to do the White Rim Trail next week. Considered one of the premier Jeep trails in the country (or so I’ve read). Taking it slow over three nights and it’s just around 100 miles. Thats 200 rated miles of reserve range assuming a 300-mile battery.

For those that do require “unlimited” range via gasoline, by all means, they should not get an EV 4x4.
I think you may be in for a rude awakening if you think your city/highway range in miles will be anything near your "range" when doing offroad trails. One of the touted advantages of offroad EV is the torque available at low speeds. However, using that additional torque comes at a price... additional battery drain.

It would not be surprising in the least if an 'on road' range of 300 miles would drop to 100 miles or less when being used off-road.
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remlemasi

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I think you may be in for a rude awakening if you think your city/highway range in miles will be anything near your "range" when doing offroad trails. One of the touted advantages of offroad EV is the torque available at low speeds. However, using that additional torque comes at a price... additional battery drain.

It would not be surprising in the least if an 'on road' range of 300 miles would drop to 100 miles or less when being used off-road.
No, I’m well aware of rated vs actual range which is why I even bothered to use the term “rated” in the first place.

100 to 150 miles off road should be a piece of cake in my estimation, otherwise the engineers are not doing their job and designing in a large enough battery. Off-roading is often low-speed, i.e no air resistance, which is a crazy range sucker and can take advantage of regenerative braking.

In any case, let’s not get caught up on exact numbers until Rivian and Tesla actually come out with their trucks and we start seeing real data. My point is that 90% of buyers will never take these vehicles off-pavement, let alone a multi-day “overland” trip. They may not be suited for crossing the Gobi, but to insinuate (not you) that these vehicles are completely pointless and that there is no market would be missing the point.
 

Kent5

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No, I’m well aware of rated vs actual range which is why I even bothered to use the term “rated” in the first place.

100 to 150 miles off road should be a piece of cake in my estimation, otherwise the engineers are not doing their job and designing in a large enough battery. Off-roading is often low-speed, i.e no air resistance, which is a crazy range sucker and can take advantage of regenerative braking.

In any case, let’s not get caught up on exact numbers until Rivian and Tesla actually come out with their trucks and we start seeing real data. My point is that 90% of buyers will never take these vehicles off-pavement, let alone a multi-day “overland” trip. They may not be suited for crossing the Gobi, but to insinuate (not you) that these vehicles are completely pointless and that there is no market would be missing the point.
Whether or not most people actually take their Wranglers/Gladiators offroad is totally immaterial. You cannot market a vehicle like a Wrangler/JT by telling the customer "You, sir/madam, are never going to actually take your Jeep off-road it anyway, so don't worry about it!" These vehicles sell on what they are capable of, not just because most buyers will actual go out and do it. And if the reviews and interwebs say that the offroad capability is a sham because of insufficient range, that info WILL affect sales.

If the "90% never offroad, so they don't need it AND THUS won't miss it" rationale was accurate, 90% (your figure) of Jeep buyers would be happier and FAR better off (cheaper, more comfortable, more MPG) buying a car-based CUV instead of a body-on-frame solid-axle Jeep. And yet -- that 90% still insist on buying Wranglers and Gladiators, and seem to be quite happy with them. Why is that? Are those buyers "wrong"?

(EDITED TO ADD: I don't think you are wrong about the "90% never offroad" figure, but I do think product decisions for such a vehicle that depends on its off-road cache would be quite ill-advised to think those 90% don't care about off-road ability, even if it is only from a "bench racing/bragging rights" perspective)
 
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remlemasi

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Whether or not most people actually take their Wranglers/Gladiators offroad is totally immaterial. You cannot market a vehicle like a Wrangler/JT by telling the customer "You, sir/madam, are never going to actually take your Jeep off-road it anyway, so don't worry about it!" These vehicles sell on what they are capable of, not just because most buyers will actual go out and do it. And if the reviews and interwebs say that the offroad capability is a sham because of insufficient range, that info WILL affect sales.

If the "90% never offroad, so they don't need it AND THUS won't miss it" rationale was accurate, 90% (your figure) of Jeep buyers would be happier and FAR better off (cheaper, more comfortable, more MPG) buying a car-based CUV instead of a body-on-frame solid-axle Jeep. And yet -- that 90% still insist on buying Wranglers and Gladiators, and seem to be quite happy with them. Why is that? Are those buyers "wrong"?
I’m speaking about EV 4x4s, SUVs, and trucks as a segment rather than just Jeeps. I’m also asserting that Jeep will want to participate in this new segment in some way. This is evident in Mark Allen’s comments, which is the basis of this thread.

What I’m NOT claiming is that these new products will somehow replace the traditional ICE-only variants that enthusiasts and traditionalists love and cherish. I believe they will exist side-by-side and cater to different buyers. For reasons you and others have stated in this thread, I can see the Wrangler being one of the last non-electric vehicles available on the market in, I don’t know, 30, 40, 50 years...
 

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adding the prototype or product development aspect. They might do this for a million reasons, never intending to market. Current economy notwithstanding, being in the electric market is needed for being in the market period. If... And it's a big if... Higher end off-road vehicles do offer an electric 4X4, jeep has a niche as a less expensive but more capable choice. Count me out tho
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