New 2024 grill insert experiment

[Minty JL]

Here gents.....save some money and get it already color matched to your truck.........IN FTW

https://www.distinctionapplied.com/2024-grille

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[ShadowsPapa]

A couple of points I’ve often wondered about after reading about this problem….
1. Why is the radiator not as wide as it could be? If you look at the grill you’ll see that on either end it is actually blocked off and there is room behind it to be made wider.
2. The 392 in the Wrangler has to make more heat and given that it’s also larger there seems to be less room for air to circulate.
3. Why can’t the fake Rubicon hood grills be made functional and be of benefit. My Porsche has a grated opening behind the radiators to allow hot air to escape…

The structure of the JT had already been certified. Any changes at all to the width of the radiator meant changes to the structure, and re-testing, re-certification. Not that it can't be done - but not without some other sacrifices in money, time, and space for other things (look to the sides of the radiator and see how far anything could be moved and not interfere, and how much steel would be removed, resulting in different frontal and corner impact results)
If such a change is made, I'd expect it with the 24 or 25 model year - if then, since their focus is shifting (we won't go there, eh? Or as my 9 year old grandson would say "we don't talk about that")

Air circulation around the engine has almost no impact on the engine cooling (other than air getting back out of the engine bay)
Cooling is all done by oil and coolant. Directly for the oil, indirectly for coolant. Frankly, I've seen big engines tucked into really tight quarters and not worry a bit about cooling as long as the oil flows fast enough and there's an adequate cooling system. Think of engines in ag and industrial equipment - some of it fully shrouded with almost no air circulation at all, or those stuffing a 360 into an already tight Eagle where the steering column had to be revamped and things cut to allow room for exhaust manifolds to fit. Pretty much no air except what flows through the radiator and they generally route that downward (and end up with nice warm floor pans)
You have a natural "draw" under the vehicle would be my guess - to pull hot radiator air down and out, a natural flow. Hood vents may be too far forward to be effective - something along the cowl, perhaps? Just thinking aloud.

I don't believe it's an air escape issue - there's plenty of room for the air to go down and back in these even with the V8.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Here gents.....save some money and get it already color matched to your truck.........IN FTW

https://www.distinctionapplied.com/2024-grille

My only question would be the blue - anything metallic. You could see the differences in certain panels in the right light on my 2020. The roof was obviously painted in a non-horizontal position.
Automotive painting 101 when working with metallics, if you paint the car (or truck) with panels like doors, hood and trunk removed, paint them in the same relative position as the car, don't law the doors down, don't stand the hood up. It will not look right in the light (learned that in auto body painting classes, and from the body guys I worked with)
So if they paint these I hope they do it hanging right-side-up on a wall or rack and not laying down.
Some colors are really hard to match, metallics are really bad and don't even think about reign (luckily, or for me, not so luckily, they never made the JT in reign)

 

[smlobx]

The structure of the JT had already been certified. Any changes at all to the width of the radiator meant changes to the structure, and re-testing, re-certification. Not that it can't be done - but not without some other sacrifices in money, time, and space for other things (look to the sides of the radiator and see how far anything could be moved and not interfere, and how much steel would be removed, resulting in different frontal and corner impact results)
If such a change is made, I'd expect it with the 24 or 25 model year - if then, since their focus is shifting (we won't go there, eh? Or as my 9 year old grandson would say "we don't talk about that")

Air circulation around the engine has almost no impact on the engine cooling (other than air getting back out of the engine bay)
Cooling is all done by oil and coolant. Directly for the oil, indirectly for coolant. Frankly, I've seen big engines tucked into really tight quarters and not worry a bit about cooling as long as the oil flows fast enough and there's an adequate cooling system. Think of engines in ag and industrial equipment - some of it fully shrouded with almost no air circulation at all, or those stuffing a 360 into an already tight Eagle where the steering column had to be revamped and things cut to allow room for exhaust manifolds to fit. Pretty much no air except what flows through the radiator and they generally route that downward (and end up with nice warm floor pans)
You have a natural "draw" under the vehicle would be my guess - to pull hot radiator air down and out, a natural flow. Hood vents may be too far forward to be effective - something along the cowl, perhaps? Just thinking aloud.

I don't believe it's an air escape issue - there's plenty of room for the air to go down and back in these even with the V8.

The pieces on either side of the radiator are plastic so they are of no structural importance… they are just plastic blocks that disrupt the flow of air when it hits that area. If they were made more at a 45 degree angle (or with a slight concave curve) this would promote a more laminar flow of the air toward the radiator…

I agree that the hood vents MAY be to far forward BUT the oil cooler sits in the middle of the engine bay in the vee and if this promotes air circulation around / near the cooler that will help.

Another option would be to remove the rubber gasket at the firewall that seals the hood when closed. This could allow air to pass over the entire engine bay and exit just in front of the lower part of the windshield where there is already a negative pressure that will help pull the air through the engine bay.

 

[Mister Lamb]

?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The pieces on either side of the radiator are plastic so they are of no structural importance… they are just plastic blocks that disrupt the flow of air when it hits that area. If they were made more at a 45 degree angle (or with a slight concave curve) this would promote a more laminar flow of the air toward the radiator…

I agree that the hood vents MAY be to far forward BUT the oil cooler sits in the middle of the engine bay in the vee and if this promotes air circulation around / near the cooler that will help.

Another option would be to remove the rubber gasket at the firewall that seals the hood when closed. This could allow air to pass over the entire engine bay and exit just in front of the lower part of the windshield where there is already a negative pressure that will help pull the air through the engine bay.

They experimented with fan blade profiles and changes, spacing between fan and heat exchanger (we call radiator) and other aspects of cooling. But the radiator itself had reached the point of diminishing returns in the water flow aspect. In other words, simply making it thicker or flow more water wouldn't improve things.
They talked to the design engineers about changing the grill - maybe this new grill is a late response to that request??

All of the work done wasn't to improve anything at all below the maximum towing ability. So there's really no need nothing to be done for anything except improve cooling for the maximum payload and towing cooling needs.

 

[smlobx]

^^^ those aren’t the blocks I was referring too…

 

[Gren71]

No one's tearing him apart - just being scientific about it.
If you are testing for a fix for a problem, you must generate the problem first then see if your theorized fix resolves it.
How do you know if a vaccine helps prevent a virus unless you put the person in a place with high instances of the virus?
His normal drive won't mean a thing - too many variables and the engine won't be producing BTUs the cooling system can't already remove.

so the only results that matter are with or while towing. Nothing else would matter.
Take cues from TFL - load the beast up, make it get hot, see if doing the same exact drive in the same ambient temps with the same load is improved with the other grill.
Grills can be swapped in moments and he doesn't even need to put all of the top fasteners back in. So he could do multiple tests in one day.
I'd concentrate on maxing out the towing - make it run hot.

%100 agree with you. And I intend to gather data while towing as well. Im just hoping to prove or disprove the hypothesis with normal everyday driving since that seemed to be where forum members were “seeing an improvement”.

 

[Gren71]

Nice thing about the grill - pops off and back on in a minute. Heck, he can carry the grill with him (assuming his payload permits) and swap them out at the other end away from home.

THIS is a phenomenal idea. I only ordered the inserts intending to swap them. But I may have to see about a whole new grille

 

[Gren71]

ok, got it. I wonder what the unpainted color is? Matte / shiny black could look ok.

Heck, ill spray paint the thing. Better than the $700+ ive seen some say they paid.

 

[Gren71]

?

Ive never had a meme more accurately capture my life hahahaha

 

[JarHeadLV]

Heck, ill spray paint the thing. Better than the $700+ ive seen some say they paid.

Im gonna guess it comes standard in black before paint.....which may look good on my truck!

 

[RacerAV]

I ordered the new grill inserts to do a bit of a test since there is so much back and forth. Nearly all of which is absent of date.

Much like my past MPG experiment I have the same drive to and from work every day. It has mostly flat terrain with a bridge that will "tax" the engine a little (emphasize on the little)

I will update the main post with the new data as I go is its easier to see it all in once place.

Question:
+ Will the "new" plastic grill inserts make a difference with the 2020 JT grill? Positive OR Negative

Research:
-Random opinions that the inserts will/will not make a difference.

I can't help but think that all the new holes in between the slots are just to make up for the overall smaller size of the grill, ("it looks like a Renegade grill, smooshed JL grill, etc...") so maybe the additional ventilation is just compensating for that? @ajkaz

 

[Chrisbequick]

Another option would be to remove the rubber gasket at the firewall that seals the hood when closed. This could allow air to pass over the entire engine bay and exit just in front of the lower part of the windshield where there is already a negative pressure that will help pull the air through the engine bay.

It's the other way around. The base of the windshield is a high pressure area, not a negative one. Air stacks up in that area. That's why cowl induction intakes work well.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Ahead of the bottom edge of the glass a bit is higher pressure, but as seen by years of using things like RainX and fancy wiper blades, the bottom of the glass is neutral pressure, the high pressure is a bit higher (green) and farther forward of the windshield base.
I've watched water droplets on my cars for years - and the water at the bottom just sits and hangs there, not being compressed or pushed at all. Water up a couple of inches will slowly start to move up.
The cowl proper is dead space, at the front of the cowl, where cowl induction hoods work, there's higher pressure (the green in the clip above. Cowl induction works because it's not right at the base of the glass but forward. Now the question - where's the highest pressure - at the grill area or the cowl? Will air still flow through if that's opened up? All it takes is a little pressure differential to move air.

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