Oil / Coolant Temp Gauge Behavior

[Desert_Gladiator]

During a recent trip, I was monitoring temperatures while driving up some long highway grades using the "offroad pages" and noticed that the "needle" or bar portion of the Coolant and Oil Temperature gauges was stationary even when the temperatures were wildly fluctuating. I saw an oil temp over 250 and the bar/needle on the gauge was planted firmly in the center of the range at the exact place as when it drops to 190 or so. Pretty much the same story with coolant temps -- whether reading 200 or 230, the needle/bar sits in the exact same position. I'm not sure if trans temperature does this as well, as that temperature didn't fluctuate as much as the other two.

The other needle/outer bar/band/whatever you want to call it moves normally on the other gauges, such as the voltage, where a 0.1 change in indicated voltage is reflected by a slight movement of the bar/needle.

I know this is not a rare move by a manufacturer - many do it to alleviate concerns/complaints by ill-informed consumers... But it's valuable information and being able to glance at the gauges to see temps rather than having to read the individual temperatures would definitely be an improvement for me. Clearly the displays are capable of moving incrementally with temperature changes, since again gauges outside the temps work as one would expect.

Has anybody/any company tried to get in to the programming of this and "unlock" the gauges so they display correctly? Is there a setting in JScan that could change this behavior? It's very frustrating to me and it seems like the type of thing that there should be a fix for.

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[Maximus Gladius]

I think I’m seeing the same thing as you. I believe that if the temps were at the over heating stage and the bar/needle went past the centre, the colour would switch from orange to red. For me, if I’m not seeing red, she’s happy.

This pic was right after I got my second engine installed with 12 L of oil in it and I went on a 1500 km there and back road trip. Transmission temps way up there to but looks like temp bar is further along the meter than the hotter temp engine is.

This pic shows a much cooler transmission than the first pic but well behind the centre mark.

Never heard of “unlocking” the temp meter to read something different than what it posts but if you’re not seeing red past centre and temp is orange under centre, I’d be ok with that.

 

[Desert_Gladiator]

Hottest I ever got mine was the oil temp at 253 and coolant in the low 230s... Both bars were still planted in exactly the same position as in your photos and I was experiencing a derate at the time and the the truck was pulling a grade with the gusto of a VW microbus. Clearly it's not an "okay" temperature if it's going into derate, but you sure wouldn't notice with a quick glance to the gauges. I've never noticed any color change to the gauges either.

Idiotic behavior Stellantis programmed here, IMO.

Of course, all I need to do is read, but I'd sure love if the bars to reflect what the numbers are saying.

And, by the way, 248 is very hot for oil. Most manufacturers recommend keeping it under 240, and say oil rapidly begins to break down at 250 or above. In my opinion, it should be at least at the 3/4 mark by that point.

 

[Stan H]

I think I’m seeing the same thing as you. I believe that if the temps were at the over heating stage and the bar/needle went past the centre, the colour would switch from orange to red. For me, if I’m not seeing red, she’s happy.

This pic was right after I got my second engine installed with 12 L of oil in it and I went on a 1500 km there and back road trip. Transmission temps way up there to but looks like temp bar is further along the meter than the hotter temp engine is.

This pic shows a much cooler transmission than the first pic but well behind the centre mark.

Never heard of “unlocking” the temp meter to read something different than what it posts but if you’re not seeing red past centre and temp is orange under centre, I’d be ok with that.

That first pic the whole system is in distress. . The transmission temp is directly tied to the engine temp in each pic they are separated by 23 and 24 degrees.
In this pic my engine is running between 185-188 But transmission is 176 which is nearly the exact same margin as yours.
IMHO opinion the more the engine is cooled the more the transmission is cooled.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

And, by the way, 248 is very hot for oil. Most manufacturers recommend keeping it under 240, and say oil rapidly begins to break down at 250 or above. In my opinion, it should be at least at the 3/4 mark by that point.

Depends on the oil and the base.
Amsoil says different.

Modern synthetics are fine at those temperatures.

Their motorcycle oil handles 500 degrees.

The gauges are there to indicate danger - and if they don't move over center, it's not a danger point. Nothing wrong with it. I frankly wish they'd hide the NUMBERS so people would stop "freaking out" over modern engine temperature numbers.

From BITOG -

Stellantis - PLEASE hide the numbers! Give us only gauge indicators!

Think of the oil in a turbo - it easily sees several hundred degrees.

I think I’m seeing the same thing as you. I believe that if the temps were at the over heating stage and the bar/needle went past the centre, the colour would switch from orange to red. For me, if I’m not seeing red, she’s happy.

I don't see a problem there.
The scales are indicators - good/sort of good/not good
They aren't made to follow the numbers exactly and no, there's nothing to "unlock" then.

So my response is - where's the problem? We drove for decades with a gauge with no numbers and were pretty clueless about actual temperatures. We knew when it got into the red, it was bad.
Same thing here but they give you numbers. That's the dumbest thing they could have done - show numbers.

 

[MT1]

From a user experience, having some gauges not move as the values change, while the oil pressure and volt meter needles move with the values, is junk.

There is enough screen space on the 8.4" display. They could have simulated the gauges with a NORMAL range, and then have the needles move with the values, and not cause concern. The users would also have a better idea of when they are getting close to "too hot".

Slackers. ;-)

Instead, we get this, "
This warning light warns of an overheated
engine condition. If the engine coolant tem-
perature is too high, this indicator will illumi-
nate and a single chime will sound. If the
temperature reaches the upper limit, a continuous
chime will sound for four minutes or until the engine is
able to cool; whichever comes first."

I went looking through the manuals to see if a normal range was noted. Nope on that, and then some oops!

They definitely did not have anyone technical check the images in the manuals. The wrangler manual with coolant at 15F, oil at 115, trans at 160.

From the JT PDF manual, no oil pressure?

 

[Stan H]

Depends on the oil and the base.
Amsoil says different.

Modern synthetics are fine at those temperatures.

Their motorcycle oil handles 500 degrees.

The gauges are there to indicate danger - and if they don't move over center, it's not a danger point. Nothing wrong with it. I frankly wish they'd hide the NUMBERS so people would stop "freaking out" over modern engine temperature numbers.

From BITOG -

Stellantis - PLEASE hide the numbers! Give us only gauge indicators!

Think of the oil in a turbo - it easily sees several hundred degrees.




I don't see a problem there.
The scales are indicators - good/sort of good/not good
They aren't made to follow the numbers exactly and no, there's nothing to "unlock" then.

So my response is - where's the problem? We drove for decades with a gauge with no numbers and were pretty clueless about actual temperatures. We knew when it got into the red, it was bad.
Same thing here but they give you numbers. That's the dumbest thing they could have done - show numbers.

Outta sight outta mind kinda thing huh?
If the numbers are good for anything its keeping our eyes off the roadway. I will say they are a distraction..however to play devils advocate it does clearly show you an outright rise of a particular section. I know when I had my 6.7cummins I was running up I-68 near meyerdale ,PA ( steep pulls) and just felt a quiver and then truck was still hauling the mail. I looked down at the EVIC and happened to have it on temp and seen that my temp went from like 200 to 246 and climbing I immediately pulled over and let idle very little and shut it down and got out and popped the hood to find that the serpentine belt had come off and I looked around with my flashlight and discovered that the water pump had locked up. ( it was a known defect and had just came out for recall)
I ended up having it towed all the way home . And it was fixed for free by Chrysler. So those numbers can save your butt too.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Outta sight outta mind kinda thing huh?
If the numbers are good for anything its keeping our eyes off the roadway. I will say they are a distraction..however to play devils advocate it does clearly show you an outright rise of a particular section. I know when I had my 6.7cummins I was running up I-68 near meyerdale ,PA ( steep pulls) and just felt a quiver and then truck was still hauling the mail. I looked down at the EVIC and happened to have it on temp and seen that my temp went from like 200 to 246 and climbing I immediately pulled over and let idle very little and shut it down and got out and popped the hood to find that the serpentine belt had come off and I looked around with my flashlight and discovered that the water pump had locked up. ( it was a known defect and had just came out for recall)
I ended up having it towed all the way home . And it was fixed for free by Chrysler. So those numbers can save your butt too.

True, if you know how to use them. Trends and all
But the so-called gauges aren't - they are go/no go indicators.
They aren't directly connected and aren't supposed to be. The numbers are for those like me who like numbers, the indicators are there for others.
We have digital clocks, calendars, thermometers, radio displays, but want analog gauges?
People are misunderstanding the purpose of each.
And the books?
LOL...they are just drawn examples, not photographs.
On the other hand, get in and press the button but not the brake pedal and you have 0 oil pressure.

 

[Desert_Gladiator]

Going in to derate and having reduced power on the road unexpectedly in an incredibly dangerous situation. Monitoring gauges allows a driver to prevent spiking temperatures or be prepared for issues which leads to safer driving and prevents a vehicle from traveling very slowly on the roadway, which leads to safer roads.

Anyone that would suggest otherwise is a fool.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Going in to derate and having reduced power on the road unexpectedly in an incredibly dangerous situation. Monitoring gauges allows a driver to prevent spiking temperatures or be prepared for issues which leads to safer driving and prevents a vehicle from traveling very slowly on the roadway, which leads to safer roads.

Anyone that would suggest otherwise is a fool.

Watch the numbers. There are no gauges.
Those are go/no go indicators. I've driven all sorts of vehicles in all states of repair in almost all conditions. I go by numbers. But I understand those confuse most people.
Having seen hundreds of vehicles towed into a shop, believe me, the gauges are ignored by most, just like the MIL..

 

[Stan H]

the gauges are ignored by most, just like the MIL..

Your 100% right about that..( I procede to tell on myself) years ago before I knew much of anything about newer vehicle operating with computers. I went to buy this used van off a guy I said there is a light on in the dash . He said yeah there should be a pice of black tape I usually keep over that its nothing. I bought it cheap like 1000 bucks so it ran good had a good body . A few months down the road the fuel pump went out ...lol that MIL might have been telling me something but I just did what He had done stuck the black tape over it

 

[MPMB]

Hottest I ever got mine was the oil temp at 253...<snip>

And, by the way, 248 is very hot for oil. Most manufacturers recommend keeping it under 240, and say oil rapidly begins to break down at 250 or above. In my opinion, it should be at least at the 3/4 mark by that point.

My oil was running hot - 240* hot!

280-285* is when Mobil 1 50w allows engines to make the most horsepower (limited sample size). Tested on the dyno. Our last few racecars we built only had the following gauges: Oil pressure and oil temp. Tach was removable. If pressure drops, shut off the engine. Oil temp was there for testing how much of the grille we could tape. Putting in a heat exchanger from a Cup team allowed us to tape all but a 2"x2" square of the grille for qualifying with a crate engine. For races (50-75 laps) we ran 1/3 to 1/2 taped. Car never got enough engine heat most of the time.

The first time we raced at one track (WVSO) years before, the car owner came over to the car just before the race and put a piece of tape over the water temp gauge. "Doesn't matter here."

 

[Stan H]

My oil was running hot - 240* hot!

280-285* is when Mobil 1 50w allows engines to make the most horsepower (limited sample size). Tested on the dyno. Our last few racecars we built only had the following gauges: Oil pressure and oil temp. Tach was removable. If pressure drops, shut off the engine. Oil temp was there for testing how much of the grille we could tape. Putting in a heat exchanger from a Cup team allowed us to tape all but a 2"x2" square of the grille for qualifying with a crate engine. For races (50-75 laps) we ran 1/3 to 1/2 taped. Car never got enough engine heat most of the time.

The first time we raced at one track (WVSO) years before, the car owner came over to the car just before the race and put a piece of tape over the water temp gauge. "Doesn't matter here."

Quaker Sludge , my oh my how they have improved used to be the absolute cheapest goop you could put ypur hands on. It literally would turn brown almost black in 1000miles and by 3000 your better be underneath that sucker draining the oil. .
Crap for that matter In my V-Twin air cooled 113CI Yamaha motorcycle I have tried Yamahas brand , Mobil 1 and Amsoil V-Twin. The Amsoil last and last and last thousands of miles before even browning up. The Yamaha oil 200 miles. The mobil 1 , 1000miles give or take. Amsoil was leaps and bounds better than the other 2 and quaker state would never be in anything more important than my pushmower.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Quaker Sludge , my oh my how they have improved used to be the absolute cheapest goop you could put ypur hands on. It literally would turn brown almost black in 1000miles and by 3000 your better be underneath that sucker draining the oil. .
Crap for that matter In my V-Twin air cooled 113CI Yamaha motorcycle I have tried Yamahas brand , Mobil 1 and Amsoil V-Twin. The Amsoil last and last and last thousands of miles before even browning up. The Yamaha oil 200 miles. The mobil 1 , 1000miles give or take. Amsoil was leaps and bounds better than the other 2 and quaker state would never be in anything more important than my pushmower.

For QS and Pennzoil, that all went away decades ago. It's all from better base oils these days. In fact, depending on where you look, the QS and Pennzoil oils are very highly rated and do very well in testing.

Speaking of hot engines, oil, and so on - our morning coffee was at a guy's shop - who runs bikes on the salt flats. Man, the stuff he had there, and the temperatures they'd run.
The bit about "my oil is too hot, it got to 240" is old thinking from the 1980s.

 

[Stan H]

For QS and Pennzoil, that all went away decades ago. It's all from better base oils these days. In fact, depending on where you look, the QS and Pennzoil oils are very highly rated and do very well in testing.

Speaking of hot engines, oil, and so on - our morning coffee was at a guy's shop - who runs bikes on the salt flats. Man, the stuff he had there, and the temperatures they'd run.
The bit about "my oil is too hot, it got to 240" is old thinking from the 1980s.

Yeah I remember those days .. I could run like a deer and I also owned a comb.

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