Pedal Monster 3.6, I'm converted.

[Jrgunn5150]

So, two things about me.

1. I've never been a believer in these pedal modifiers, I've very much been in the, "just push the pedal down further" camp. Seemed silly to me when tuning is available. I particularly find Banks advertising to be pretty propagandized, like if I don't buy their diff cover I'll die while towing... or any elbow but their 800 Cummins elbow will cause my engine to explode.

2. I've always felt the 3.6 is unnecessarily soft down low, and never put much thought into it, it's/was my wifes daily, she doesn't care, I didn't think much of it. I switched to 4.88's on stock 32's for towing power, and it still felt soft...

So, my wife has been mainly driving her Tesla lately, leaving the Jeep to me as a gas saver over my Ram 2500. I've been driving it daily about 2 months now, and the pedal simply lags. Once I started actually paying attention critically, you can feel the torque management going on.

The engine may make peak power at like 5800 rpm, but the TQ curve is pretty flat from 2k to 5k... Big block or diesel like, if lower...

But with 5.13's and 37's it still has feathery soft take off and acceleration. My 4 cylinder Toyota with the same will slam you right back for 5 feet until it runs out of breathe.

So WTF gives?

Then I remembered my experiences tuning my Ecodiesel, and how the tuning strategy is all about commanded TQ vs pedal position/speed/gear..

To tune the 3.6, I'd need to update my MVPI to a 4, for 200 bucks, unlock the PCM, for 400 bucks, then go poking around.. not appealing. To pay someone is like 1200, hard pass.

Which leaves the pedal modifiers and their nonsense... Why not try one? Worst that happens is it sucks and I'm mad but I sell it for like half off and give up.

Pedal Commander, terrible reviews, lots of complaints. So, Pedal Monster? Good reviews at least. Have a colleague with one in his Rubicon, he let me drive it to lunch, play with the app... Immediately everything clicked into place in my pickle brain lol.

It's not simply changing a throttle input of 20% to 30%, or whatever, it's commanding more TQ off idle. The change is just like the change from tuning my Ecodiesel, another vehicle very soft off the line for no reason, other than electronic limiting.

I ordered one, installed it in five minutes, and have to say, the thing drives like something with 280 hp and 5.13 gears should now. It moves when you push the pedal, no hesitation, and it's not violent or stupid. It just drives like it should.

Wife drove it, shes happy, all is well, if you've been on the fence, or skeptical, the thing is worth it in this case.

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[ChrisNLA]

So, two things about me.

1. I've never been a believer in these pedal modifiers, I've very much been in the, "just push the pedal down further" camp. Seemed silly to me when tuning is available. I particularly find Banks advertising to be pretty propagandized, like if I don't buy their diff cover I'll die while towing... or any elbow but their 800 Cummins elbow will cause my engine to explode.

2. I've always felt the 3.6 is unnecessarily soft down low, and never put much thought into it, it's/was my wifes daily, she doesn't care, I didn't think much of it. I switched to 4.88's on stock 32's for towing power, and it still felt soft...

So, my wife has been mainly driving her Tesla lately, leaving the Jeep to me as a gas saver over my Ram 2500. I've been driving it daily about 2 months now, and the pedal simply lags. Once I started actually paying attention critically, you can feel the torque management going on.

The engine may make peak power at like 5800 rpm, but the TQ curve is pretty flat from 2k to 5k... Big block or diesel like, if lower...

But with 5.13's and 37's it still has feathery soft take off and acceleration. My 4 cylinder Toyota with the same will slam you right back for 5 feet until it runs out of breathe.

So WTF gives?

Then I remembered my experiences tuning my Ecodiesel, and how the tuning strategy is all about commanded TQ vs pedal position/speed/gear..

To tune the 3.6, I'd need to update my MVPI to a 4, for 200 bucks, unlock the PCM, for 400 bucks, then go poking around.. not appealing. To pay someone is like 1200, hard pass.

Which leaves the pedal modifiers and their nonsense... Why not try one? Worst that happens is it sucks and I'm mad but I sell it for like half off and give up.

Pedal Commander, terrible reviews, lots of complaints. So, Pedal Monster? Good reviews at least. Have a colleague with one in his Rubicon, he let me drive it to lunch, play with the app... Immediately everything clicked into place in my pickle brain lol.

It's not simply changing a throttle input of 20% to 30%, or whatever, it's commanding more TQ off idle. The change is just like the change from tuning my Ecodiesel, another vehicle very soft off the line for no reason, other than electronic limiting.

I ordered one, installed it in five minutes, and have to say, the thing drives like something with 280 hp and 5.13 gears should now. It moves when you push the pedal, no hesitation, and it's not violent or stupid. It just drives like it should.

Wife drove it, shes happy, all is well, if you've been on the fence, or skeptical, the thing is worth it in this case.

Ugh, I've been looking at these and trying to not buy one - but this isn't helping, lol.

I'm in the same boat. The throttle response off idle / extremely low speed is bordering on dangerous at times.

It's not that it doesn't have the power - it's that the stupid truck doesn't know how to deliver it when you whack the pedal.

And, like you - the cost to tune right now is a bit gut wrenching...

 

[Zachattack50]

Good info, I too am on the fence with tuning. I definitely would like more on the bottom (under 2k) but sending my pcm out to be unlocked (3-5 business days) then tuning is just deeper than I care to go at the moment. Also, I have the worst luck when it comes to "bolt ons" id probably have the pcm brick or something stupid. Might have to look into this.

 

[Zachattack50]

I just ordered one, for $295 Im curious. If tuning would net me 50hp I could justify it, but its not going to with a N/A 3.6. This wont gain any HP or TQ but hopefully it cleans up the downlow.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I just ordered one, for $295 Im curious. If tuning would net me 50hp I could justify it, but its not going to with a N/A 3.6. This wont gain any HP or TQ but hopefully it cleans up the downlow.

I think, and as an amateur, I've done a lot of tuning on various platforms over two decades, the main thing a tune would gain that you won't get here, is the ability to hold gears longer, and generally change the shift pattern.

The OE strategy is get them in top gear idling along ASAP to meet CAFE targets.

Of course messing with timing and fueling is another boon, but the biggest, easiest, lowest hanging fruit is always dial back TQ management, and let it rev out a bit more.

Before ECU's needed expensive unlocks, DIY tuning was great, but now, for the cost, it's just not there, even if it is impressive and I've no doubt drives better than mine.

I would hazard to say, I've gotten 7/10 the gains at 1/3 the price.

 

[BourbonRunner]

Good info, I too am on the fence with tuning. I definitely would like more on the bottom (under 2k) but sending my pcm out to be unlocked (3-5 business days) then tuning is just deeper than I care to go at the moment. Also, I have the worst luck when it comes to "bolt ons" id probably have the pcm brick or something stupid. Might have to look into this.

Same boat.

I am seriously considering getting the paddle shifters to at least be able to row my own or the pedal controller/master/whatever. Ive just never thought outside of FI motors those things were worth it.

 

[DirkG]

This post is not helping me either. Ha. This is always me when Pedal Monster is standing next to me with it's skirt raised.

 

[Zachattack50]

Good thing with the MT I can hold gears as long as I want. I will post a writeup when it comes in on my results. Positive or negative.

 

[Metalhead]

Will this fix the lag between the trans shifting from 3rd gear to 4th gear? I know the tuner guy that posts on here says his tune fixes it but I too can't afford the price for a custom tune.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Will this fix the lag between the trans shifting from 3rd gear to 4th gear? I know the tuner guy that posts on here says his tune fixes it but I too can't afford the price for a custom tune.

Didn't change my shifting at all.

 

[DiehardTory]

For the thread and those considering; We have run the Ped Monster on the 21 Mojave for 3+ years and It did pick up the off idle accel from stops .. Set on Street at 20%.. We studied their systems and found street more for bottom end & straight line than Sport or race. the other 2 were more for above mid range and WOT. Just saying for use.. BTW have one to install on the 23 Mojave too.

 

[bmpcamry09]

Will this fix the lag between the trans shifting from 3rd gear to 4th gear? I know the tuner guy that posts on here says his tune fixes it but I too can't afford the price for a custom tune.

That lag/hesitation has everything to do with the variable cam system and nothing to do with the trans, tune is the only fix

 

[bmpcamry09]

So, two things about me.

1. I've never been a believer in these pedal modifiers, I've very much been in the, "just push the pedal down further" camp. Seemed silly to me when tuning is available. I particularly find Banks advertising to be pretty propagandized, like if I don't buy their diff cover I'll die while towing... or any elbow but their 800 Cummins elbow will cause my engine to explode.

2. I've always felt the 3.6 is unnecessarily soft down low, and never put much thought into it, it's/was my wifes daily, she doesn't care, I didn't think much of it. I switched to 4.88's on stock 32's for towing power, and it still felt soft...

So, my wife has been mainly driving her Tesla lately, leaving the Jeep to me as a gas saver over my Ram 2500. I've been driving it daily about 2 months now, and the pedal simply lags. Once I started actually paying attention critically, you can feel the torque management going on.

The engine may make peak power at like 5800 rpm, but the TQ curve is pretty flat from 2k to 5k... Big block or diesel like, if lower...

But with 5.13's and 37's it still has feathery soft take off and acceleration. My 4 cylinder Toyota with the same will slam you right back for 5 feet until it runs out of breathe.

So WTF gives?

Then I remembered my experiences tuning my Ecodiesel, and how the tuning strategy is all about commanded TQ vs pedal position/speed/gear..

To tune the 3.6, I'd need to update my MVPI to a 4, for 200 bucks, unlock the PCM, for 400 bucks, then go poking around.. not appealing. To pay someone is like 1200, hard pass.

Which leaves the pedal modifiers and their nonsense... Why not try one? Worst that happens is it sucks and I'm mad but I sell it for like half off and give up.

Pedal Commander, terrible reviews, lots of complaints. So, Pedal Monster? Good reviews at least. Have a colleague with one in his Rubicon, he let me drive it to lunch, play with the app... Immediately everything clicked into place in my pickle brain lol.

It's not simply changing a throttle input of 20% to 30%, or whatever, it's commanding more TQ off idle. The change is just like the change from tuning my Ecodiesel, another vehicle very soft off the line for no reason, other than electronic limiting.

I ordered one, installed it in five minutes, and have to say, the thing drives like something with 280 hp and 5.13 gears should now. It moves when you push the pedal, no hesitation, and it's not violent or stupid. It just drives like it should.

Wife drove it, shes happy, all is well, if you've been on the fence, or skeptical, the thing is worth it in this case.

The PM and PC and similar devices are not commanding more torque. The commanded torque table on the GPEC2A and GPEC5 ECU can't be modified without tuning or else you'll go into limp mode immediately. See my below post for more detail as I decided to put some visual help in.

Throttle controllers like this are simply shifting the pedal voltage table in a direction that makes the pedal more responsive.

PM is a solid product for the price, but the way you wrote this is as if it will give you more down low torque. It won't. Custom tuning is still less money than a set of tires and you get all the other perks like transmission tuning, cooling fan control, gear/tire size changes, plus the MPVI4 works on basically every platform now.

I'll be posting dyno test results and videos later this week, so look out for that, but 30-50 ft. pounds of torque increase below the curve is very possible on these with premium fuel and VVT tweaks paired with mild spark timing modification.

 

[Rusty PW]

I've had a Pedal Monster on my diesel for over 3 yrs now. Love the thing. Have it set on Sport 4. When off roading. I'll dial it back to like Stock 4.

 

[bmpcamry09]

In an effort to back up what I mentioned, here is a breakdown of the pedal tables, and a demonstration of what pedal manipulators do to your Jeep, for those who like good data.....again, there is no substitute for good tuning.....a few of my Gladiator customers (@zuki_dan @DronePilot) had a throttle controller in place before my stuff. And FWIW, I actually tell people to get a PM if they want some extra pedal feel without a tune.

PC and PM and other similar devices operate under one principle. They manipulate the 5 volt canbus signal from the pedal to the ECU. Their circuitry sits in between your pedal and the ECU. The pedal will output a certain voltage between 0 and 5 volts. The throttle controller will convert that value to a higher voltage value for more throttle response, or a lower value for the ECO modes. The sensation as a result "feels" like more torque, but it is just the ECU commanding whatever power it is set to command at lets say 1.0 volts instead of .8 volts.

What is nice about the PM is it gets it's power from the OBD2 port and does not only rely on the power at the pedal itself. This is a great fail safe and a great innovation on their part. Likewise, since it is plugged into the OBD, it can sense when reverse is selected and go back to a normal soft throttle for reverse.

Here is what throttle maps look like to your tuner, mind you, this is the actual data within the ECU and not what a device is interpreting. I used a 2026 Gladiator 3.6 as reference here, but they are the same from 2020 to 2026 for the 3.6 although not every OS has these tables defined....

The above picture is the Engine>Torque Management>Driver Demand section of a factory tune file Mode 1 is used for normal drive mode. Modes 5-7 are used for off road plus or 4LO typically, depending on year. Power % request is the percentage of available torque you can command. If the torque isn't actually possible, it will never reach this target. Expected pedal is the pedal at which the ECU expects the pedal to be for that power % request. These tables must be directly inverse of each other or else limp mode will occur. These tables can't be modified by any device and can only change via tuning.

At the top there, you'll see Pedal WOT set to 3.510 volts. This is the voltage output from the pedal that the engine considers wide open throttle. On these Jeeps, pedal to the floor is usually 4.1 volts, so from the factory, technically WOT is happening before your pedal is to the floor. As far as tuning goes, any tuner can go in and lower this WOT voltage amount and achieve the exact same thing your throttle controller is doing. All your throttle controller is doing is tricking the ECU outputting a higher voltage.

Now lets talk about torque. On stock tuning, maximum torque is set at 272 pound feet, and there are several multipliers and other limiters in place that keep the engine from even achieving that most of the time. Simply upping these numbers by themselves will not get you more torque without the proper VVT and spark timing changes to actually achieve requested torque. I opened up all related tables I could fit for this picture so you can see.........

This table cross references the power % request mentioned earlier. Your throttle controller is not changing any of these commands or limits. You can't make more torque without tuning. Period.
Here is a visual representation of the voltage output from your throttle on a stock tune, and the same table as what you may find on a pedal manipulator in it's "sport setting"

STOCK

Manipulated by a throttle controller (just for demonstration, your controller isn't actually changing this):

Hope this helps explain to people weighing the whole tune vs. throttle controller thing. For the price, PM is a great option. But don't get it twisted, it is not adding torque.

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