Replacement window switches - that are DIFFERENT ??

[Viper501]

https://www.jegs.com/i/Dorman-Products/326/901-405/10002/-1

https://www.jegs.com/i/Electric-Life/366/4990-10-421/10002/-1

Thinking buy a spare door card and install one of these as an alternative to the center console. Or something similar. Moves it to the left side and closer.

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[ShadowsPapa]

https://www.jegs.com/i/Dorman-Products/326/901-405/10002/-1

https://www.jegs.com/i/Electric-Life/366/4990-10-421/10002/-1

Thinking buy a spare door card and install one of these as an alternative to the center console. Or something similar. Moves it to the left side and closer.

Console itself is out.
One reason would be giving up the console space,
having them to her right, right next to her won't work. She can't bend that arm at all.
So the console is out. She'd not be able to reach them that close.

All of the switches appear to be only 3 position - up, off, down. The Jeeps use 4 position switches. Up, off, down, down auto. Only switches like the Grand Cherokee or others that use auto-down window switches with 2 detents down would work. They don't give any details on those switches as far as connections or operations, do they? Also need one that has the window lock-out function. So likely only a Grand Cherokee type or a JK type would work.

Would need to feed a 12 wire harness into the door besides the one that's already there so I'll have to look to see what would be needed to run another harness into the door, where to place switches. Would need spare door panel and likely other parts.

 

[Deleted member 52902]

The design of dashboards including switch gear for a car manufacturer has to take into account, safety during collisions. Children are also taken into consideration. Power window switches years ago were converted from the more convenient toggle type, to the switches we have now that provide a better chance for young children to not as easily make the window go up while they are another child has part of their body hanging out.

These switches and the ones used on the JEEP dash are not a perfect solution. Even child-proof bottle caps aren't perfect either. I do believe they are better. Imports went to the new switches before I recall seeing them on Made in USA vehicles. In the dash, the design continues the theme of human safety with at least a minor chance of deterence for kids to cause an unfortunate situation.

I totally get what your trying to do for your wife and others that could benefit too, but bat handled toggles or rocker types won't happen from the vehicle manufacturers these days. However, a solution for you might not be too difficult.

The factory switch connections are neatly engineered today for fast, modular assembly. Rather than attempting to replace them where other occupants, familar with late model Wranglers and Gladiators will naturally know where and how to operate them; Perhaps additional switches, located elsewhere, can be paralleled by tying into the existing wiring. These could be Auxiliary switches located on the passenger side B piller or a variety of other locations with aftermarket switch panel "escutcheons".

I don't think the MOPAR optional Auxilliary switches you might have at the lower right center dash panel can have switches that can be two way, center off but maybe two switches of momentary contact (not push ON or push OFF) might be available to operate one for UP and one for DOWN. I would research the aftermarket panels w/switches to see what can be located best for your wife. But you need to find one that offers a momentary ON-OFF-ON rocker that fits into their panel switch openings. The ones I have worked with in my JK Jeep only offered common, ON-OFF type switches in Rocker style. If you can only find switches with toggle "bat" handles and n accessory panel to put them on, then give that a lot of thought to be located where they will not add to possible injuries in a crash. Or simply by bumping into them.

Maybe under the lid of the center console could be the perfect compromise for safety, less likely kids if any, flipping them, and not awkward or too awkward for her or anyone to get at and use. Wiring bundle would be small enough from dash to center console, routed under the carpet which is easily pulled up. You should see all of the radio power and multiple antenna and speaker cables I have done a lot of this in my JEEP and nobody really knows the wiring exists under their feet.

Perhaps have her practice arm and hand movements to the console or other potential locations, if of course additional switches can easily be tapped into the wiring behind the factory switches that can still be operational too. Maybe a local, reputable car entertainment installer would do this work for you. I would hazard a guess that the labor would be more than $150 and less than $250, plus parts. A small white LED light could also be tapped into the power wire to this single, or dual switches, if set up for driver & passenger window operations. Why not. My thoughts are that an LED located on the underside of the console lid such that the glow is enough to make the switches "findable", in the dark.

Gene / K7TXO

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Maybe under the lid of the center console could be the perfect compromise for safety, less likely kids if any, flipping them, and not awkward or too awkward for her or anyone to get at and use.

Thanks, but............
I suspect you haven't seen her photos or followed this thread otherwise you'd see how so much just isn't possible.
For example -
No way switches on the console lid or especially under the lid could work, No, she couldn't reach them, yes they'd actually be a lot worse.
Console totally out due to the fact she can't bend her right arm and the console is behind the driver or next to the driver and even I can't get to the inside of the console easily while driving so that would be a huge step backwards even for a person with "normal arms and hands". I find it extremely awkward to open the console and get a specific item out of it. Worse for her.
Since it wouldn't be good for a person who has a normal arm and can bend it, it's a non-player from the get-go.

The only location is - their current location, unless they were moved into the left door. That's the only other location available, or that's reachable by her, or a normal person.
We've discussed other locations in or on the dash - no room or else worse location than current.

These switches and the ones used on the JEEP dash are not a perfect solution. Even child-proof bottle caps aren't perfect either. I do believe they are better. Imports went to the new switches before I recall seeing them on Made in USA vehicles. In the dash, the design continues the theme of human safety with at least a minor chance of deterence for kids to cause an unfortunate situation.

If it was all about kids, pets, safety, etc. then the Grand Cherokee wouldn't still have switches on the arm rest. A kid can still lean on the arm rest and open windows. Perhaps not close them, but they could open them. (their switches have changed and aren't as soft as they used to be, and there's also window locks or shut-offs)

As a side note, as a decades long mechanic and lover of automotive history........
I've seen power window switches from some of the very first ever used - even the ones in my Eagle I'm thankful they don't work with the engine off as otherwise a cat or dog could run the windows down and jump out. Easy operation. Very easy. And no safety going either up or down. They stop simply because they are too weak to do otherwise at each end.

It's sad that car makers even have to consider accidental window operation. People should never leave kids in a vehicle with the engine running, and....... there are window locks on modern vehicles - use them.

In the dash, the design continues the theme of human safety with at least a minor chance of deterence for kids to cause an unfortunate situation.

These are not on the doors but elsewhere due to the ability to remove the doors. That part is understood. It's not about safety at all. It's about removing the doors, reducing weight and complexity (as I've laid out in other posts in this thread)
All other Jeeps have switches in the arm rests or on the doors as well as also having window locks for the back doors. So that's the safety bit that is there to help prevent inadvertent window operation. Some vehicles have latches in the side of the door that change how the door latches and windows work.

It's extremely doubtful there's any bit of "child safety" involved in the location for these. Otherwise all other Jeep designs would have similar switches - Compass, Cherokee, Grand Cherokee, among others. Stiffness, type of lever, perhaps, yes, but the location isn't a safety factor. The more family friendly Jeeps - those marketed to young families, have easier to operate switches on the tops of the arm rests.

We really don't care if "other occupants" know where switches are.
very vehicle seems to have them in a different place anyway. In fact, most people seem to look for window switches on the doors where they were on Jeeps when Jeep first used electric windows. So in the dash is a weird place and most people don't realize they are there.
It's like a hood release or even fuel door release. All sorts of places for them.
The only people to ride in it ever are her, me, and some of her friends.
Other people are not a consideration when dealing with adaptive equipment - only the driver is.

Curious, I'm not sure what the aux switches have to do with windows because those aren't SPDT switches. They can't be. They can't switch power between two different sets of contacts. (besides being further away) The window switches must be SPDT with 2 detents on the lower direction for auto-down operation.
They work by taking the 12volt feed and sending it to the up lead or the down lead of the window motor. An aux switch can't do that. It's a SPST that can be programmed to latch or be momentary or remember last state. And like I said -they are farther away anyway.

 

[Viper501]

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/jt-3wliners-window-control-module-install.40950/

 

[ShadowsPapa]

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/jt-3wliners-window-control-module-install.40950/

Maybe you missed - that's been "suggested" twice, and I posted that I already have that and it's installed.

It's no solution to the real problem at hand - the module doesn't replace switches or make them easier. It only adds auto-up mode. You still have to be able to reach and be able to pull the switch up.

(3W really needs to put in some real documents and fix that too-short wiring harness and do the fuse correctly. Wonder who the heck placed that fuse in their thin battery lead)

 

[Viper501]

Maybe you missed - that's been "suggested" twice, and I posted that I already have that and it's installed.

It's no solution to the real problem at hand - the module doesn't replace switches or make them easier. It only adds auto-up mode. You still have to be able to reach and be able to pull the switch up.

(3W really needs to put in some real documents and fix that too-short wiring harness and do the fuse correctly. Wonder who the heck placed that fuse in their thin battery lead)

I must have missed it. I wanted to pass it along though since 3w has figured a way to move the windows wirelessly there may be a solution to do so for your application. That would solve the wiring issue you face with putting a remote switch / control on the driver’s door. Just trying to keep an eye out to help get the problem solved.

 

[Gatorized]

The key takeaw for the 3W and 4xe::
does Not work on 4XE

Window Closer Control Module Function:
1. Lock the car and raise the window: After the car is powered off, press the remote control to lock the car and automatically raise the four windows.
2. Remote control window descending: After the car is powered off and locked, press unlock-lock-unlock, the four windows will descend at the same time, which is convenient for heat dissipation.
3. window ascending: After dissipating heat, press the lock button twice to raise the window again.
4. Window ascending pause: During window ascending, press the unlock button to pause window from going up.
5. Window descending pause: During window descending, press the lock button to pause window from going down.
6. One-button lift all windows: Press and hold the window raise button for 0.5 seconds on the driver side control panel, and then let go of your hand , the winders will rise to the top. Operate the window to go down the same way.

 

[Viper501]

?‍

 

[Russler]

Just spitballing here. Have you talked to anyone that installs alarms/remote starters? I have had them install relays allowing me to turn on lights, open doors, activate trunks etc. I am betting they could install something allowing your much better half to control the windows without ever touching the buttons.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I must have missed it. I wanted to pass it along though since 3w has figured a way to move the windows wirelessly there may be a solution to do so for your application. That would solve the wiring issue you face with putting a remote switch / control on the driver’s door. Just trying to keep an eye out to help get the problem solved.

It's too bad that their module doesn't act as a receiver for remote switches.
Actually, they aren't moving the windows wirelessly so much as sensing the door lock wires in the door harness and counting lock and unlock signals, and their order, and running the windows based on the lock and unlock wires going through the door harness.
I did not connect those two wires because:
We have no need to roll windows up or down remotely with the fob
and
You have to literally cut into the door harness to connect it. There's no pigtail you can just plug in. They tell you to tap into the two wires on the door side of the harness but that means you can't take the doors off. So others have instead tapped into the dash or truck side of the door harness. That's really hard to get to unless you are extremely agile and take more stuff apart.
And for my wife and I - we'd never remember their combination of fob button presses. Heck, my wife never sees or touches the fob for her Jeep until she comes back into the house and stashes the fob so it would be a step back (passive entry - pocket the fob and never touch it again)

However, if they actually had found a way to do it wirelessly, that would be cool. But they haven't - they simply cut into the door lock and unlock wires in the harness. Nothing wireless about their module.

The key takeaw for the 3W and 4xe::
does Not work on 4XE

Window Closer Control Module Function:
1. Lock the car and raise the window: After the car is powered off, press the remote control to lock the car and automatically raise the four windows.
2. Remote control window descending: After the car is powered off and locked, press unlock-lock-unlock, the four windows will descend at the same time, which is convenient for heat dissipation.
3. window ascending: After dissipating heat, press the lock button twice to raise the window again.
4. Window ascending pause: During window ascending, press the unlock button to pause window from going up.
5. Window descending pause: During window descending, press the lock button to pause window from going down.
6. One-button lift all windows: Press and hold the window raise button for 0.5 seconds on the driver side control panel, and then let go of your hand , the winders will rise to the top. Operate the window to go down the same way.

It does actually work on the 4xe although it threw a fit saying the hood was open, etc. I've not tried it again since I reset things and got rid of the error. Almost afraid to!

#6 - don't know what the heck they are talking about because it does no such thing. I tried rolling down the passenger front window and driver window, and then using their raise button 0.5 seconds. All it did was raise the driver's window. I tried multiple combinations. Think about it - 0.5 seconds is what you'd do to get auto-up on the driver's window, they are saying that any time you use the auto-up function you close all windows? Not only does it not work, but I'm thankful it doesn't because half a second is what you use to get the auto-up function to work. Otherwise, you are just running the window up a bit at a time with less of a button pull.
Momentary pull on the switch runs the window up just a bit. 0.5 second pull on the switch triggers auto up for that window - they are saying it runs all windows up. Thankfully it does not.

1 through 5 you have to cut into the door harness and connect 2 wires. A lot of people have troubles with that part. We'd never use that anyway so I didn't hack the door harness.

Am I missing something on this one -
>>2. Remote control window descending: After the car is powered off and locked, press unlock-lock-unlock, the four windows will descend at the same time, which is convenient for heat dissipation.<<

So you shut it off, get out, lock the doors. Oops, want windows down (oh, you forgot to do that after shutting it off?)
So you press unlock/lock/unlock and the windows go down.
Nice, now the truck is unlocked and the windows are down?
Oh, you skip from 2 to 5 - press lock again but quickly or the windows will be way down. That stops the windows and locks it again. But now they are down too far so you do it all again.

>>
3. window ascending: After dissipating heat, press the lock button twice to raise the window again.
4. Window ascending pause: During window ascending, press the unlock button to pause window from going up.<<
So you press the lock button twice to raise the windows but want to stop them before they get all the way up - and you have to unlock the Jeep to do so?
Sorry, worthless toy to show off. The key presses mean more complexity just not worth cutting wires to hook it up. It's a joke. Easier to bump a couple of windows down 1" before getting out of the truck. So I never hooked it up. No more often than that might get used (maybe once or twice a year) we'd never remember it anyway. Be honest - how often would that feature be used?

In any case, the module is nice for auto-up when you are in the Jeep, but not much else. And I need to go out and try the functionality again to see if it triggers the hood open alert and prevents charging. Hopefully that was a fluke.
But - 3W says it's not compatible due to wiring harness differences. No, the switches and harness are exactly the same as the JT.
2 reviewers on Amazon said they couldn't make it work correctly on 4xe. Jury still out for us as I have to test it again to see if it causes more errors.

Just spitballing here. Have you talked to anyone that installs alarms/remote starters? I have had them install relays allowing me to turn on lights, open doors, activate trunks etc. I am betting they could install something allowing your much better half to control the windows without ever touching the buttons.

Still need buttons or switches somewhere.
The only place that would make sense would be on the driver's door. Get a used door panel to cut up and experiment with as far as mounting switches.
So let's say you mount switches there - they'd need to mimic the actual window buttons.
4 switches on the door would be needed.
Ideally done wirelessly otherwise you run roughly 12 wires through the door into the dash. Had wondered about that but the thought of a fat bundle of wires caused me pause. So if they could have wireless functions controlling relays tied into the factory switches, that is doable, but a custom build for sure.
A person could do what 3W did and pigtail into the switch harness, make a receiver that ran relays under the dash. You'd need switches and a transmitter in the door.
You'd need to mimic the factory switches perfectly with the wireless otherwise the auto-up function of the 3W device wouldn't work.
It would take quite an electronics guy to do that (lets me out for sure LOL)
Door switches with transmitter. Neat, clean, no wires, could be contained inside the door save for 4 switches.
Receiver controlling relays under the dash, tied into the factory wiring.

Or - modify the factory switch pod in some way.

 

[ColoradoDennis]

IMO, the answer was given back in posts #29 & 30 of this thread, but then dropped in lieu of myriad mechanical switch proposals.

Voice control.

Use a MIMS microphone to feed audio commands to a Raspberry Pi 3 running PocketSphinx (open source voice recognition software). Use the output terminals of the Raspberry Pi to drive solid state relays controlling the window motors. Just three simple modules: microphone, Raspberry Pi, and a small strip of relays.

There are now Microsoft Windows interfaces to PocketSphinx, so you don’t even need to know C, C++, or Java (I don’t know how adept you are with the various programming languages).

A Raspberry Pi 3 is 85mm x 56mm, so it should be easy to find a location (and power) under the dashboard. This would leave the OEM switches in place for others to use, and open up functionality by the voice commands of your (and your wife’s) choice.

I wish you and her all the best as you make whatever modifications you select.

 

[Gatorized]

some of this has been mentioned before, and this is not to rehash it but just to keep the cognitive juices flowing until you find an adequate solution
Someone modified their homelink buttons to operate lights or some such… wonder if the homelink could be modified to replicate the fob buttons to power the 3W module instead of the key fob. Then you would not need to keep the fob out for window operation.
I think the all windows down function is for approaching your vehicle that has been sitting in the sun, to dissipate heat faster before you get in. Not so much for as soon as you get out.
most all of those key sequences would be a learning experience until done enough times to get used to it, not unlike learning how many button press3s gets the dash display to move from mpg display to tire pressure display or battery voltage.
wonder if the 3W could be connected so only the driver and passenger windows would be actuated- I can’t see that you would always want all windows down as the driver.
it isn’t a final solution, but it may be a temporary solution since you already have the 3W module, until something better is found.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

IMO, the answer was given back in posts #29 & 30 of this thread, but then dropped in lieu of myriad mechanical switch proposals.

Voice control.

Use a MIMS microphone to feed audio commands to a Raspberry Pi 3 running PocketSphinx (open source voice recognition software). Use the output terminals of the Raspberry Pi to drive solid state relays controlling the window motors. Just three simple modules: microphone, Raspberry Pi, and a small strip of relays.

There are now Microsoft Windows interfaces to PocketSphinx, so you don’t even need to know C, C++, or Java (I don’t know how adept you are with the various programming languages).

A Raspberry Pi 3 is 85mm x 56mm, so it should be easy to find a location (and power) under the dashboard. This would leave the OEM switches in place for others to use, and open up functionality by the voice commands of your (and your wife’s) choice.

I wish you and her all the best as you make whatever modifications you select.

I think that's a cool idea, but way beyond my doing. If there was a "kit" I could install - great, but to make up such a system............
"driver window down, stop" (for example to go partway down) or "driver window up"
That would be unreal. Just way more than I can take on.
With such a system, the 3W unit could be put in my truck as she'd not even need it.
I don't know what sort of a rating relays would need because those windows obviously take some current to operate seeing the wiring behind the switches.

My son would be excited to see such a thing in Barbara's Jeep. He loves tech like that.

Modifying switches or the handles would be the easiest and something totally non-intrusive.
I like the voice command idea but starting such a deep complex project for me at this point, it would work if it already existed.

 

[RudeJeepin]

Doesn't the 3W unit have auto down capabilities along with the auto up?
If so, it might help you find a set of switches easier than the "4way" you keep talking about or are looking for.

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