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Rubicon Manual Towing Capacity

Bbannongmu

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I'm sure it's mentioned and if so,could you guide me there? My question is dealing with manual transmission, I plan on putting 33's on my soon to be bought gladiator, is the Sport S with the 3.73 sufficient? I do not plan on towing a trailer but will be hauling kayaks. Those aren't too heavy, probably ~200 pounds. Everywhere I read they say get the 4.10. The payload for the Sport S is 1,600 and the max towing is 4,000 while the Rubicon is 1,200 and 4,500.

Since I am adding larger tires, is the 3.73 too small?
3.73 is ok but 4.10 seems better, more pep with 33s. There is a stop on Manuals right now due to the recall. The of course manual and 4.10 means a lot of Rubicon extras that cost extra. I recommend test driving both after the recall and virus to see what meets your needs and budget. Good luck.
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robglass

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here is some more info on the 6k estimate
So it sounds like the downgrade in weight is mostly due to the clutch life. Good video thanks for sharing. I still have to get the recall done, maybe I can talk them into a using a better clutch.
 

whiteglad

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"Organic" clutches have binders (resins) that melt/vaporize and come to the surface and cause glazing at about 400 deg. spot temperature. Some improvement can be had from brass wire in the facing, as a surface scrubber. Other types of facings such as bronze or sintered iron are a lot more temperature resistant, but expensive and not as smooth or well-behaved when slipped (the source of the heating). If you don't have enough gear to take off easily and smoothly, you will be slipping the clutch and that will glaze the facings, and cause hot spots and possibly cracks (with cast flywheels and pressure plate rings).
 

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"Organic" clutches have binders (resins) that melt/vaporize and come to the surface and cause glazing at about 400 deg. spot temperature. Some improvement can be had from brass wire in the facing, as a surface scrubber. Other types of facings such as bronze or sintered iron are a lot more temperature resistant, but expensive and not as smooth or well-behaved when slipped (the source of the heating). If you don't have enough gear to take off easily and smoothly, you will be slipping the clutch and that will glaze the facings, and cause hot spots and possibly cracks (with cast flywheels and pressure plate rings).
The manual has a lower 1st gear than the auto. I’ll be going to 4.88 axle gears eventually which will also help.
 

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whiteglad

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The auto has a torque converter, which helps a lot on take-off.
 

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"Organic" clutches have binders (resins) that melt/vaporize and come to the surface and cause glazing at about 400 deg. spot temperature. Some improvement can be had from brass wire in the facing, as a surface scrubber. Other types of facings such as bronze or sintered iron are a lot more temperature resistant, but expensive and not as smooth or well-behaved when slipped (the source of the heating). If you don't have enough gear to take off easily and smoothly, you will be slipping the clutch and that will glaze the facings, and cause hot spots and possibly cracks (with cast flywheels and pressure plate rings).
Thanks for this explanation. I did not know that organic clutches even existed. I have 3 other cars with sticks and I never had clutch problems -- I guess asbestos makes a difference.... but, so far, 6K miles on my manual Rubicon and no clutch issues, but, as you know, the pressure plate has been recalled.
 

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By organic, the industry means facings which have resin-bound materials, today including fiberglass, which has replaced asbestos almost universally since 1980. Once the resin has come to the surface, the surface is "glazed" and won't hold as much torque.
 

Maximus Meridius

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I'm sure it's mentioned and if so,could you guide me there? My question is dealing with manual transmission, I plan on putting 33's on my soon to be bought gladiator, is the Sport S with the 3.73 sufficient? I do not plan on towing a trailer but will be hauling kayaks. Those aren't too heavy, probably ~200 pounds. Everywhere I read they say get the 4.10. The payload for the Sport S is 1,600 and the max towing is 4,000 while the Rubicon is 1,200 and 4,500.

Since I am adding larger tires, is the 3.73 too small?

Anyone who is contemplating bigger tires after they get their truck better go with 4:10’s . 33’s and 4:10’s shouldn’t have any problems. I have 35’s on a manual with 3:73’s and it’s dead in SW Pa. Theres lots of hills around here. I lost 6th gear about completely and if you can use 5th it dies on any moderate grade and your looking for 4th. This is all related to the speed your carrying when you hit a hill. If you have to go to 4th and you wait too long, your grabbing 3rd soon, if you still have hill left. I can use 5th once in a while and even 6th on the turnpike. Where they try and mellow out the hills and you can do 75. It would be much better with my setup if we were flat landers. BTW I lost 4 mpg right off the bat. My truck is a Sport S and came with 2.45’s stock that were 31” and it moved pretty good. No freak but ok. I could use 5th all the time and 6th quite often. With these 35’s I would have to go with 4:88’s to get any power back or 5:13’s but I can’t imagine how much more mileage I would loose. It looks good and I’m living with it for now. I knew exactly how it was going to run with 35’s but I couldn’t talk myself into 33’s.
 

whiteglad

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I was very pleased with the 8 speed auto after having a 2017 JKURR with 5 speed auto and 3.73. I had searched out that ratio in 2017, a rarity in the Recon, for more highway mpg, and was initially concerned about having to get 4.10 with the max tow package. I went ahead since for me one of the biggest reasons to trade was to get the towing capacity--going from 3500 to 7650 lb. was a "game changer." Then I found from the test drive that I got a better first gear and acceleration, by far, with the slightly shorter (0.25" less diameter) tires, 4.10, and 8-speed. When I got on the interstate, I found that I was running lower rpm, due to the steeper overdrive. Overall, the 8 speed made a previously "marginal" engine into a very capable engine/transmission combination.
 

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So would the Centerforce Clutch solve this issue (for the most part)?

I think 1st gear is waaaaay too short in mine, but I enjoy the 6 speed otherwise.

Added a Pedal Commander and it has helped some. I also have the AFE RockBasher exhaust but haven't installed it yet.

I'm eventually going to go to 35s or 37s and either 4:88s or 5:13s.
 

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It's not quite that simple - towing capacity is calculated based on several tests (0-60 time, handling, braking, etc). I've never seen the results of these tests but it could be that with the longer gears in the manual it failed 0-60 with 6k lbs of towing so they had to rate it lower
It could be that it failed tests but it also could be that they de-rated it for longevity purposes. We'll never know without a Jeep engineer to tell us but I'm inclined to agree with you. MTs tow better once you're moving but without low end torque, they struggle off the line compared to an AT.

And either way, no matter what the weak link (which is the MT in some way), you'll never increase your official tow rating. I know most don't care but you're in for a world of hurt if something bad happens while you're towing 6k on a 4k rating.
 

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I know I would have a lot more confidence in mine if I had a clutch comparable to the Center Force. I personally wouldn’t want to haul anything over 3500-4000 lbs.. with mine. Especially with the tall tires. Just from an engine perspective let alone suspension. I feel the torque curve and where the max horsepower comes in with the 3.6L is is all wrong. They need to redesign and retune the engine and PCM software to have max hp. And torque at a way lower rpm. If you want to haul heavier weights. I feel that you would kill that truck trying to tow 7000# around here. Again flat landers have it way different. Just my opinion.
 

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I know I would have a lot more confidence in mine if I had a clutch comparable to the Center Force. I personally wouldn’t want to haul anything over 3500-4000 lbs.. with mine. Especially with the tall tires. Just from an engine perspective let alone suspension. I feel the torque curve and where the max horsepower comes in with the 3.6L is is all wrong. They need to redesign and retune the engine and PCM software to have max hp. And torque at a way lower rpm. If you want to haul heavier weights. I feel that you would kill that truck trying to tow 7000# around here. Again flat landers have it way different. Just my opinion.
I agree. Unfortunately, to get more torque down low, you need more gas, and more air, to be consumed at a lower RPM. That can only be done in big chunks with a turbo, a supercharger, or more displacement. More displacement is the best, in my opinion for a 4WD, but, then, the cruise mileage will suffer, because as the displacement goes up, low HP and torque requirements at cruise become less efficient. Personally, I would have liked the 3.6L to have been a 4L Pentastar for the Jeeps, but, the Pentastar motor was meant for many other "small wheel" Chrysler vehicles before the Jeep.....

PS. If they re-cam the existing 3.6L Pentastar for moving the torque curve lower, then, we will loose some of the high RPM hp. Higher rpm is the only way to get more air into the Pentastar so it can make more power. If you limit the high end RPM to get the torque lower, you will lose some of the high end hp.
 
 



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