Sport S vs Rubicon

[XJADDICTION]

This thread cracks me up and deserves a long answer to this Sport vs Rubicon thread.

I can pick up Rubicon take off brand new wheels and tires with sensors for $1000 all day long.

If I went to discount tire I’d pay about $2000 for the same size Falken ATs on the rubicon. Mopar sells the Rubicon rims for $269.00 (discounted from $400)
So I can pick up $3000+ worth of wheels and tires for $1000.

rubicon owner looses $2000 to get rid of stock wheels and tires.

Take off Rubicon rock rails all day long for $80.00 (I wouldn’t want those anyway) so let's just say rubicon owner gets $0 for these and eventually dumps them in recycle bin.

Mopar cost for same rock rails
$500. Rubicon owner looses $500

Now time to make the Rubicon worthy for “off-road “ use.


Rubicon owner pays avg cheap lift price of $2000 (that’s a cheap setup with average Shocks) to run 37” tires.

Rubicon owner pays another $4-$5000 on wheels and tires.

Just say Rubicon owner paid the extra $2000 on purchase for the steel flimsy metal bumpers .

Rubicon owner adds a winch and winch plate for $1500

Real Rock rails for $1000 unless wife still needs to get in Rubicon and you drop $2500 for the rock-sliders that drop down.

Drive shafts “since you are a serious Rubicon... Rubicon traversing Rubicon add another $2000

Better get those gears changed
$3000 (I’m including labor here)

So Rubicon owner pays about $23,000 extra to “off-road “ or “look cool at the mall” of course this is up to you, what your Rubicon purchase is used is for.

Add this to $12,000 ($12g + $23g = $35g) price for rubicon over my Max Tow. (October 2019 difference was $12,000) $42,000 for my Max Tow and similarly equipped Rubicon was $54,000

So... when I bought my Max Tow most Rubicon owners (many Sport owners too, but not me right now and you will see why) will change and sell at a loss these parts... because they want a cool rig. I agree they do look good when lifted and set up. Now your Rubicon is truly “Rubicon trail ready”

BUT

Take the $1000 I gave you for the your new wheels and tires... thank you, you saved me $2000.

Real Cost of Rubicon to make it off-road Rubicon trail ready (give or take) $53,000 + $24,000
= $77,000

Rubicon owner, wife can get in with fancy sliders) grand total $77,000 ( as long as you do your own work on the rig). No shop labor added here except for the gear swap.

Now, you tell me; you (and your angry wife for most of us) are going to take a $77,000 dollar rig and beat it off road, damaging body panels, ripping tail lights off (man I hope those aren’t the tail lights with the proximity sensors!), and shortening the life span of most every drivetrain part on your Rubicon?

I’ll have put 60-65,000 miles on my “ugly” wheels and tires. I have paid $34,000 less than your “off-road” Rubicon rig. I will agree, it does look nice. Ok I’ll take those $1000 brand new wheel and tire take offs, so you can go get some new tail lights.

Your somewhat built Rubicon will have depreciated due to excess wear and tear that my mostly street towing open top dream machine Max Tow will not have (she is maintained, waxed and a garage queen)

Loosing $34,000 and trust me it will be more than that. For example you’ll spend another $3000 for tires before my ugly ass stockers wear out, plus any damage you incur during “off-roading”.

Let’s just stick with $34,000 to keep it simple.

While you’ve been out tearing the crap out of your now $77,000 Rubicon on trails (I know 99% of you will street drive for the most part). I will have invested $34,000 and double or tripled my money.

AND my Max Tow resale value, since this farce is often mentioned in here, will be worth more than your beat down used up Rubicon JT for you “real off-roaders” ( what does that really mean? I take mine off-road, I just don’t Rock Crawl.

For you Mall Crawlers (nothing wrong with Mall Crawling, your rig does look sweet.. but my wallet is fat and that is more important to me) the dealer on trade in isn’t going to give you anywhere close to what you have in a $77,000 Rubicon with 100,000 miles. Even less if it has insurance recorded trail damage you had to repair.

In closing... think amortization here... did you really have that many more smiles per $ than I have had driving my mostly stock Max Tow? No, not IMOP. If yes for you, then in your opinion all that lost money on your Rubicon purchase was worth it.

For me it is simple economics. I can have more fun off-road on my $3000 carbon fiber stump jumper. I will have more fun on my $1400 Honda XR250R dirt bike, and more fun with my 2004 $24,000 Tige 24 foot wakeboard/surf boat and my jet skis.

The $34Gs I saved will be happily growing with the investments I have made.

My Sport S Max Tow is still fun to drive and brings a smile every time I get in it. Put that top down and the smile factor for me doubles. Top down and drop it into 4 Lo and smiles to the 3rd power... yes of course my stock Max Tow still can go off road silly. Ok, yes mine doesn’t look as cool as yours but damn man, losing that kind of money isn’t worth it IMOP !?

Go with the Sport!

Sponsored

 

[JDMRN81]

This thread cracks me up and deserves a long answer to this Sport vs Rubicon thread.

I can pick up Rubicon take off brand new wheels and tires with sensors for $1000 all day long.

If I went to discount tire I’d pay about $2000 for the same size Falken ATs on the rubicon. Mopar sells the Rubicon rims for $269.00 (discounted from $400)
So I can pick up $3000+ worth of wheels and tires for $1000.

rubicon owner looses $2000 to get rid of stock wheels and tires.

Take off Rubicon rock rails all day long for $80.00 (I wouldn’t want those anyway) so let's just say rubicon owner gets $0 for these and eventually dumps them in recycle bin.

Mopar cost for same rock rails
$500. Rubicon owner looses $500

Now time to make the Rubicon worthy for “off-road “ use.


Rubicon owner pays avg cheap lift price of $2000 (that’s a cheap setup with average Shocks) to run 37” tires.

Rubicon owner pays another $4-$5000 on wheels and tires.

Just say Rubicon owner paid the extra $2000 on purchase for the steel flimsy metal bumpers .

Rubicon owner adds a winch and winch plate for $1500

Real Rock rails for $1000 unless wife still needs to get in Rubicon and you drop $2500 for the rock-sliders that drop down.

Drive shafts “since you are a serious Rubicon... Rubicon traversing Rubicon add another $2000

Better get those gears changed
$3000 (I’m including labor here)

So Rubicon owner pays about $23,000 extra to “off-road “ or “look cool at the mall” of course this is up to you, what your Rubicon purchase is used is for.

Add this to $12,000 ($12g + $23g = $35g) price for rubicon over my Max Tow. (October 2019 difference was $12,000) $42,000 for my Max Tow and similarly equipped Rubicon was $54,000

So... when I bought my Max Tow most Rubicon owners (many Sport owners too, but not me right now and you will see why) will change and sell at a loss these parts... because they want a cool rig. I agree they do look good when lifted and set up. Now your Rubicon is truly “Rubicon trail ready”

BUT

Take the $1000 I gave you for the your new wheels and tires... thank you, you saved me $2000.

Real Cost of Rubicon to make it off-road Rubicon trail ready (give or take) $53,000 + $24,000
= $77,000

Rubicon owner, wife can get in with fancy sliders) grand total $77,000 ( as long as you do your own work on the rig). No shop labor added here except for the gear swap.

Now, you tell me; you (and your angry wife for most of us) are going to take a $77,000 dollar rig and beat it off road, damaging body panels, ripping tail lights off (man I hope those aren’t the tail lights with the proximity sensors!), and shortening the life span of most every drivetrain part on your Rubicon?

I’ll have put 60-65,000 miles on my “ugly” wheels and tires. I have paid $34,000 less than your “off-road” Rubicon rig. I will agree, it does look nice. Ok I’ll take those $1000 brand new wheel and tire take offs, so you can go get some new tail lights.

Your somewhat built Rubicon will have depreciated due to excess wear and tear that my mostly street towing open top dream machine Max Tow will not have (she is maintained, waxed and a garage queen)

Loosing $34,000 and trust me it will be more than that. For example you’ll spend another $3000 for tires before my ugly ass stockers wear out, plus any damage you incur during “off-roading”.

Let’s just stick with $34,000 to keep it simple.

While you’ve been out tearing the crap out of your now $77,000 Rubicon on trails (I know 99% of you will street drive for the most part). I will have invested $34,000 and double or tripled my money.

AND my Max Tow resale value, since this farce is often mentioned in here, will be worth more than your beat down used up Rubicon JT for you “real off-roaders” ( what does that really mean? I take mine off-road, I just don’t Rock Crawl.

For you Mall Crawlers (nothing wrong with Mall Crawling, your rig does look sweet.. but my wallet is fat and that is more important to me) the dealer on trade in isn’t going to give you anywhere close to what you have in a $77,000 Rubicon with 100,000 miles. Even less if it has insurance recorded trail damage you had to repair.

In closing... think amortization here... did you really have that many more smiles per $ than I have had driving my mostly stock Max Tow? No, not IMOP. If yes for you, then in your opinion all that lost money on your Rubicon purchase was worth it.

For me it is simple economics. I can have more fun off-road on my $3000 carbon fiber stump jumper. I will have more fun on my $1400 Honda XR250R dirt bike, and more fun with my 2004 $24,000 Tige 24 foot wakeboard/surf boat and my jet skis.

The $34Gs I saved will be happily growing with the investments I have made.

My Sport S Max Tow is still fun to drive and brings a smile every time I get in it. Put that top down and the smile factor for me doubles. Top down and drop it into 4 Lo and smiles to the 3rd power... yes of course my stock Max Tow still can go off road silly. Ok, yes mine doesn’t look as cool as yours but damn man, losing that kind of money isn’t worth it IMOP !?

Go with the Sport!

Wut?

 

[NachoRuby]

Not trying to topple your idea of what cross shopping is, but a Toyota is not a solid front axle. Just sayin. But you are here so welcome to the dark side

Understood, but nothing else has a solid front axle any more, so if I were to only cross shop things with a solid front axle, I'd be eliminating every over vehicle, other than the Wrangler. Cross-shopping also involves comparing features. The solid front axle gave the JT a pro on my comparison chart, and a con on my Taco chart. So did the interior comfort.

 

[NachoRuby]

This thread cracks me up and deserves a long answer to this Sport vs Rubicon thread.

I can pick up Rubicon take off brand new wheels and tires with sensors for $1000 all day long.

If I went to discount tire I’d pay about $2000 for the same size Falken ATs on the rubicon. Mopar sells the Rubicon rims for $269.00 (discounted from $400)
So I can pick up $3000+ worth of wheels and tires for $1000.

rubicon owner looses $2000 to get rid of stock wheels and tires.

Take off Rubicon rock rails all day long for $80.00 (I wouldn’t want those anyway) so let's just say rubicon owner gets $0 for these and eventually dumps them in recycle bin.

Mopar cost for same rock rails
$500. Rubicon owner looses $500

Now time to make the Rubicon worthy for “off-road “ use.


Rubicon owner pays avg cheap lift price of $2000 (that’s a cheap setup with average Shocks) to run 37” tires.

Rubicon owner pays another $4-$5000 on wheels and tires.

Just say Rubicon owner paid the extra $2000 on purchase for the steel flimsy metal bumpers .

Rubicon owner adds a winch and winch plate for $1500

Real Rock rails for $1000 unless wife still needs to get in Rubicon and you drop $2500 for the rock-sliders that drop down.

Drive shafts “since you are a serious Rubicon... Rubicon traversing Rubicon add another $2000

Better get those gears changed
$3000 (I’m including labor here)

So Rubicon owner pays about $23,000 extra to “off-road “ or “look cool at the mall” of course this is up to you, what your Rubicon purchase is used is for.

Add this to $12,000 ($12g + $23g = $35g) price for rubicon over my Max Tow. (October 2019 difference was $12,000) $42,000 for my Max Tow and similarly equipped Rubicon was $54,000

So... when I bought my Max Tow most Rubicon owners (many Sport owners too, but not me right now and you will see why) will change and sell at a loss these parts... because they want a cool rig. I agree they do look good when lifted and set up. Now your Rubicon is truly “Rubicon trail ready”

BUT

Take the $1000 I gave you for the your new wheels and tires... thank you, you saved me $2000.

Real Cost of Rubicon to make it off-road Rubicon trail ready (give or take) $53,000 + $24,000
= $77,000

Rubicon owner, wife can get in with fancy sliders) grand total $77,000 ( as long as you do your own work on the rig). No shop labor added here except for the gear swap.

Now, you tell me; you (and your angry wife for most of us) are going to take a $77,000 dollar rig and beat it off road, damaging body panels, ripping tail lights off (man I hope those aren’t the tail lights with the proximity sensors!), and shortening the life span of most every drivetrain part on your Rubicon?

I’ll have put 60-65,000 miles on my “ugly” wheels and tires. I have paid $34,000 less than your “off-road” Rubicon rig. I will agree, it does look nice. Ok I’ll take those $1000 brand new wheel and tire take offs, so you can go get some new tail lights.

Your somewhat built Rubicon will have depreciated due to excess wear and tear that my mostly street towing open top dream machine Max Tow will not have (she is maintained, waxed and a garage queen)

Loosing $34,000 and trust me it will be more than that. For example you’ll spend another $3000 for tires before my ugly ass stockers wear out, plus any damage you incur during “off-roading”.

Let’s just stick with $34,000 to keep it simple.

While you’ve been out tearing the crap out of your now $77,000 Rubicon on trails (I know 99% of you will street drive for the most part). I will have invested $34,000 and double or tripled my money.

AND my Max Tow resale value, since this farce is often mentioned in here, will be worth more than your beat down used up Rubicon JT for you “real off-roaders” ( what does that really mean? I take mine off-road, I just don’t Rock Crawl.

For you Mall Crawlers (nothing wrong with Mall Crawling, your rig does look sweet.. but my wallet is fat and that is more important to me) the dealer on trade in isn’t going to give you anywhere close to what you have in a $77,000 Rubicon with 100,000 miles. Even less if it has insurance recorded trail damage you had to repair.

In closing... think amortization here... did you really have that many more smiles per $ than I have had driving my mostly stock Max Tow? No, not IMOP. If yes for you, then in your opinion all that lost money on your Rubicon purchase was worth it.

For me it is simple economics. I can have more fun off-road on my $3000 carbon fiber stump jumper. I will have more fun on my $1400 Honda XR250R dirt bike, and more fun with my 2004 $24,000 Tige 24 foot wakeboard/surf boat and my jet skis.

The $34Gs I saved will be happily growing with the investments I have made.

My Sport S Max Tow is still fun to drive and brings a smile every time I get in it. Put that top down and the smile factor for me doubles. Top down and drop it into 4 Lo and smiles to the 3rd power... yes of course my stock Max Tow still can go off road silly. Ok, yes mine doesn’t look as cool as yours but damn man, losing that kind of money isn’t worth it IMOP !?

Go with the Sport!

Do you see what folks are doing with stock JTs of all trims off road? Why would a Rubicon owner be throwing more money at their rig than anyone else? People who like to mod the heck out of their jeeps are going to do it regardless of trim. My wife is 5'2. She gets in fine with the rock sliders. The grab handles help though. My children get in fine too. A beat up Sport or Sport s will lose value the same as a beat up Rubicon, or any other trim. Folks act like a Rubicon is like a $150k G-Wagen or something.

 

[SquirrelNuts]

hahahaha that’s funny as hell?

It's Mack's Toe, thank you very much...

 

[SquirrelNuts]

Max Tow OPTION only available on the Sport models is correct.

HOWEVER the max tow equipment is either STANDARD on the Rubicon and the other couple of items are added on the $400 trailer tow package.

So there is nothing in the Max Tow that isn’t or cannot be equipped on the Rubicon trim.

The one exception may be the spin diff

Max Tow has progressive rear springs, which are pretty nice if you do tow and use the payload capacity.

But... you can find them on the marketplace fairly often and swap into a Rubicon if ya really wanted.

 

[XJADDICTION]

Do you see what folks are doing with stock JTs of all trims off road? Why would a Rubicon owner be throwing more money at their rig than anyone else? People who like to mod the heck out of their jeeps are going to do it regardless of trim. My wife is 5'2. She gets in fine with the rock sliders. The grab handles help though. My children get in fine too. A beat up Sport or Sport s will lose value the same as a beat up Rubicon, or any other trim. Folks act like a Rubicon is like a $150k G-Wagen or something.

Post was long so I am sure you didn’t want to read all of it. I don’t blame you.

Several times I made sure to mention IMOP and not all Rubicon owners. I also said many Sport (or Overland, I did not mention them but they are included) JT owners spend tons on an already expensive truck. When you get finished in 1-5 years you’ll look back, most of you , and say what in the hell was I thinking.

I’ve owned a Rubicon (I’ve owned 15 Jeeps), i have friends that own them and there is a mentality that “oh I got lockers and 4:1 t-case and sway bar DC” I need to rock crawl.

I’ve done it, I spent over 20 years building and crawling rigs, most were Jeeps. So I understand, so do the marketers, how easy it is to get in the trap of spending a lot of money for upgrades. Chasing a look or a capability “I might need to have” that’s been said here as well.

This is an addiction ? it’s ok, you just have to understand it and the Sport vs Rubicon IMOP is after a lot of experience building , spending money and using most of them off road “Rock Crawling “ is again IMOP, original poster asked the question... a no brainer.
Get the sport and use your money more wisely.

That said, some of us here I also understand, we have the money and can buy/do whatever we want with the expendable income.

For those that buy a vehicle, a JT , on a interest bearing note of “ill pay later”. All I’m saying is he Sport May be less tempting to modify, and is honestly the better choice for a dd you will use for hunting, camping, truck stuff vs the Rock Crawling you think you might do. My stock JT Sport S MT is very capable even on nearly a street tire. I could spend $1000 on those Rubicon take offs and be even more capable.

Read my username XJADDICTION. Not my first Jeep and but first XJ (of 3 XJs) I got caught up in the crazies. a 1996 I bought used in 1997 and spent $10,000 to purchase, and I spent another $27,000 going through different lifts, death wobble issues, axle changes , lockers, bumpers, winch, wheels different tires, snorkel (yes I used it) etc... I didn’t even realize how much I had actually spent until a very intelligent friend of mine pointed it out. I eventually had that XJ on 35’s 7”s of lift, lock out hubs, lockers, chromoly axles, 3”es of fender sheet metal cut out and it would hang with just about anything from mild built buggies to other built Jeeps on 38’s. Back then that was the big tire. The XJ is an incredible rig that flexes like crazy and has great power and reliability with the inline 6 and AW auto.

So NO, I don’t think the JT Rubicon is a Mercedes G Wagon.

I think the JT IS the best mid sized pickup on the market currently and the only option for drop top smiles.

I do NOT think the JT makes a good Rock Crawler without a lot of expensive modifications. Honestly IMOP if I really wanted the JT to be a Rubicon trail rig I would chop as much off of the bed as possible. I did that in a long bed MJ on 38’s with built wagoner axles etc and that trick was amazing! Plus... I had about $5000.00 in it, still had AC, and could be driven at interstate speeds with cruise. The JT built for true rock crawling with purchase price will cost more than the $77,000 I mentioned and you will need to make some permanent metal modifications. You add a hemi v-8 and you are over $150,000 with axles and all other mods easily.

So in conclusion, you do you, I’ll do me. I’ve justified IMOP which is the better option here.

For me a Sport S MT Is IMOP a better option to the Rubicon whether you are thinking of going rock crawling or as a good looking DD.

I need Max towing capacity for my toys. Really the only other thing I need , though I love my dirt bike, is my slightly used Specialized Stumpjumper FSR ST a $6000 dollar bike I bought for $3000. I go off road, I jump stuff and I get in shape while enjoying every minute of it.

My post isn’t a motivated slam against or jealousy for the Rubicon or against those that buy them because I could buy one myself (a diesel Red Rubicon... see? There is my temptation flirting with me!)

Just use your head, think about your families and be honest with yourself about what you will really use your JT purchase for.

 

[PDiddy]

The nice thing too is that you don't even have to get the red dash on the Rubicon if you don't want it. You can opt for tan leather seats which will get you a gray dash, or certain body colors also get you the gray dash.

Personally, I love the red dash.

 

[Deleted member 30519]

Probably depends on the local market, but around here, the Rubicons are priced similarly enough to the other trims that I saw no reason not to get it. A loaded Willys was nearly the same price as my much less loaded Rubicon. The difference was about 3 grand, which was only like $50 a month different. I figured, why not. Factory warrantied lockers and 33 inch tires, sign me up! If you're not going to do heavy modifications, or replace all of the Rubicon parts with aftermarket, it's perfect. I didn't want an 8.4 inch screen or an automatic transmission, so I saved some dough there.

In NY the difference is like 10-15k. I bought my sport for 38k after taxes and the cheapest Rubicon was a M\T for 47k sticker and the price went up to 56k. The lower Hudson Valley has always been this way.

 

[NachoRuby]

In NY the difference is like 10-15k. I bought my sport for 38k after taxes and the cheapest Rubicon was a M\T for 47k sticker and the price went up to 56k. The lower Hudson Valley has always been this way.

Are they still marking up the Rubicons in you're area? Wow.

In NY the difference is like 10-15k. I bought my sport for 38k after taxes and the cheapest Rubicon was a M\T for 47k sticker and the price went up to 56k. The lower Hudson Valley has always been this way.

They don't really stock a lot of sports at all around here. Mostly sport s, Willys, Mojave, nd overland is what I see at the local dealer. With the occasional Rubicon

 

[DankjeeP]

Understood, but nothing else has a solid front axle any more, so if I were to only cross shop things with a solid front axle, of be eliminating every over vehicle, other than the Wrangler. Cross-shopping also involves comparing features. The solid front axle gave the JT a pro on my comparison chart, and a con on my Taco chart. So did the interior comfort.

You have a point. You would have to go to full size otherwise.

 

[Hootbro]

One should not have to write a "War and Peace" novel explanation to make their point.

In years past concerning the Sport Wranglers I owned, I could have written a treatise also on why it was a good value over a Rubicon. I can say when it came to finally buying my Gladiator, it was nice to go all in and get the Rubicon model.

I think what gets lost in the shuffle when people just focus on the mechanicals, the Rubicon model also brings a value to it standard interior equipment that in many cases shortens the cost delta between a Sport that gets higher optioned vs. what is standard equipment in a Rubicon trim.

 

[Willys2Gladiator]

west huh.. So you also bought from Dennis Dillon?

Live in Western Washington. Dealers wouldn't budge and saved $4,000 to pickup special order at Dennis Dillon.

 

[bastage]

Well you still have two lockers and a sway bar disconnect. I would think that is worth the $2500 difference. Not saying everyone needs those things, just saying value wise I would be happy to pay $2500 to get two e lockers and an electronic swaybar disconnect, that have a manufacturers warranty.

If you simple don't need those things, then the Max Tow is the way to go.

That wasnt the point I was making. It was simply that the take off's arent worth the price increase in your replacing the stuff anyway.

 

[PDiddy]

That wasnt the point I was making. It was simply that the take off's arent worth the price increase in your replacing the stuff anyway.

I know that was your point. Your saying paying foe $1000 set of tires and selling them for $600 is not worth it. But your not paying full retail for the 33s that come on the gladiator. So it isn’t like you paid a grand for them and then your selling them for $600. You need to look at the difference in cost of two gladiator trims that are similarly optioned. If that difference is 4K, then you can look at what you would sell and keep, then decide if it’s worth it.

Let’s say the difference is 5k for similarly optioned Rubicon and max tow. For the 5k you get two lockers, sway bar disconnect, rock rails, metal rear bumper, under armor, high clearance fenders, 4:1 transfer case, fox shocks, 33s, Molle seat back panels, foot well ambient lighting, and maybe some more. For me, I like a little bling, so I love the rubicon hood and badging. If I didn’t get a rubicon I would have added some other text to the hood. Plus, the interior upgrades are nice.

Now, I’m not saying you should pay for all that, just because I think it’s a good value. If you don’t want any of it then it’s not at all. What I am saying is, if you do want even just the lockers and sway bar disconnect, it quickly starts to make financial sense. Because you can sell off some of the parts and reduce the price between the trim levels.

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