Start/Stop battery is STUPID!

[OldSarge]

I've heard your arguments on this before, and while you have many great contributions to this forum, you are just plain wrong about this. Its a poor design to have an "auxiliary" non critical system disable the entire vehicle. Rationalize away all you want and wax poetic about how no one understands what goes into these systems. It is an singularly awful design and we all know it.

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[TRUKEMAN]

This start/stop function is the dumbest invention ever. It’s an over engineered, discombobulated, mess that does nothing to save gas and causes nothing but problems. I just didn’t realize how stupid it is untill I had to change the Aux battery. 3 years old 2022. Gladiator and had two Aux batteries replaced under warranty.
I had to leave work today because the wife couldn’t leave the house when the electronics went haywire. Service trans mission warning. Put car in park warning without the vehicle actually running. Oh yea… the car can’t shift from park because you can’t start the vehicle! Couldn’t turn off the vehicle from “RUN” to off. It was a mess. Every warning bell and light was going off. So now it’s time to replace #3
So I got a new aux battery. But removing the fuse box and trays was THE BIGGEST PAIN just to replace a battery. I couldn’t imagine what a dealership would charge.

just ranting a bit. lol.

Agreed.

 

[Hootbro]

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I've heard your arguments on this before, and while you have many great contributions to this forum, you are just plain wrong about this. Its a poor design to have an "auxiliary" non critical system disable the entire vehicle. Rationalize away all you want and wax poetic about how no one understands what goes into these systems. It is an singularly awful design and we all know it.

Gee, BMW, Mercedes, GM and others have used it - and it's a dumb system.
Your hate is skewing your logical thinking.
We all know it - hahaha - yeah, the "we all know it" shows your thinking. Wow, so much hate and anger - over something one doesn't understand, and actually has false information about.

So it's ok if a main battery goes and disables the entire system? To the point you can't just start it?

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...h7-is-doing-the-job.90742/page-3#post-1589536

 

[Bigcatfish]

Unless you are married to having a ESS function, just do the full delete mod and you can stop worrying about it.

Would doing this impact my warranty?

 

[Charles 236]

Well, it is the internet. What do facts have to do with anything? I have in the past made a contribution or two in the never ending battle for truth, but I finally reached my fill on another site just minutes ago and bowed out. I was faced with weapons grade ignorance, "facts" based on what a member there heard from a friend of a friend. No truth in the "facts" posted to refute what I posted, but what I posted could be found and verified in print and other forms of information distribution. It wasn't "I heard..." type information.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Would doing this impact my warranty?

Maybe - frankly, I'd wait if that was a concern, but in the grand scheme of things, it "should not".
Dealerships can go either way - ignore mods (like they ignored all the stuff I did on my prior Jeeps, including driving it into their shop with a big snow plow on the front, massive mods to the lighting and electrical system), others might have said - uh, no, you are abusing it - no warranty for you.
Others might have personal "FIRST-HAND" experience with that bit. I don't think Hootbro cares, but he's smart enough to deal with dealerships anyway - let them go up against him. I'd enjoy seeing that. (uh, no offense, Hootbro)

Well, it is the internet. What do facts have to do with anything? I have in the past made a contribution or two in the never ending battle for truth, but I finally reached my fill on another site just minutes ago and bowed out. I was faced with weapons grade ignorance, "facts" based on what a member there heard from a friend of a friend. No truth in the "facts" posted to refute what I posted, but what I posted could be found and verified in print and other forms of information distribution. It wasn't "I heard..." type information.

You can't fight emotion with logic and facts. When there's so much bad, just plain incorrect info out there and people have made an emotional choice based on that bad info, no amount of fact can counter it. Besides, you only have so many facts to present - they will keep coming up with more and more emotion against it.
It's like the bit I posted about vacuum advance and the GM engineer - when i presented facts, it pissed people off. I was purely logical about it, presented exactly what I had, nothing more, nothing less, but I was going up against hatred of a system and a so-called "engineer" who had claims easily exposed as false.
Sad when feelings win over facts, hate over logic. Let one person get stranded and suddenly a whole system is bad. People hate and fear what they don't understand - and that's not just about cars, either.

 

[Charles 236]

You can't fight emotion with logic and facts. When there's so much bad, just plain incorrect info out there and people have made an emotional choice based on that bad info, no amount of fact can counter it. Besides, you only have so many facts to present - they will keep coming up with more and more emotion against it.
It's like the bit I posted about vacuum advance and the GM engineer - when i presented facts, it pissed people off. I was purely logical about it, presented exactly what I had, nothing more, nothing less, but I was going up against hatred of a system and a so-called "engineer" who had claims easily exposed as false.
Sad when feelings win over facts, hate over logic. Let one person get stranded and suddenly a whole system is bad. People hate and fear what they don't understand - and that's not just about cars, either.

This is true, but for me it's about trying to educate people, as I am sure it is with you. I don't want people to remain in ignorance, but like a pig in mud, it must be their happy place. I am glad that you and a few others take the effort to fight the tidal wave of ignorance and emotions that most of the internet consists of, but I reached my fill on that site. If it makes that person happy, I will gladly leave him to wallow in ignorance.

 

[Batterycap]

This start/stop function is the dumbest invention ever. It’s an over engineered, discombobulated, mess that does nothing to save gas and causes nothing but problems. I just didn’t realize how stupid it is untill I had to change the Aux battery. 3 years old 2022. Gladiator and had two Aux batteries replaced under warranty.
I had to leave work today because the wife couldn’t leave the house when the electronics went haywire. Service trans mission warning. Put car in park warning without the vehicle actually running. Oh yea… the car can’t shift from park because you can’t start the vehicle! Couldn’t turn off the vehicle from “RUN” to off. It was a mess. Every warning bell and light was going off. So now it’s time to replace #3
So I got a new aux battery. But removing the fuse box and trays was THE BIGGEST PAIN just to replace a battery. I couldn’t imagine what a dealership would charge.

just ranting a bit. lol.

You are 100% correct. The Stellantis slogan should be "Stellantis - Where our Engineering Expertise always suffocates Common Sense."

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Haha.....problem is, it wasn't invented nor created by Jeep, FCA or Stellantis.
But let emotion and hate and total lack of understanding automotive electric systems trump fact. It's the cool thing to do. A lot of blind leading the blind on the internet.
No wonder my boss called it the misinformation stupid-highway.

 

[XraytecH]

Unless you are married to having a ESS function, just do the full delete mod and you can stop worrying about it.

I disconnected the negative lead, pulled "The Fuse", and left the aux in place.

Would doing this impact my warranty?

If you need to get service you can easily go back to factory.

 

[Hootbro]

Would doing this impact my warranty?

Possibly, not because if done properly will cause a fault, but because most techs do not understand it, they may lay blame on it for other issues.

 

[SanTan38]

I’m sure the heat is a big contributor. I try and turn it off every time. I suppose the stop/start system is like that little emissions module in my 84 cj7. Absolutely not needed for vehicle function and can run just fine without it. But Government emissions standards direct a nonessential subsystem be installed to make tree huggers feel better. I’d rather pay a 500 dollar emissions tax when I buy a new car to not have to deal with it. Similar thinking of putting turbo 4 cylinders in typical v6 platforms. Costs more by every measurable metric, does nothing for fuel consumption, and ends up being not as reliable and longevity diminishes.

A basic jeep with the turbo4 gets around 19-20 mpg in real world driving and a 6.3 L V8 in a corvette will easily get 27-28 mpg.

 

[MT1]

OT, but I'm not sure that bringing the MB brand and engineering, merged with Chrysler in '98, helps people feel good about ESS as implemented by Stellantis. There are good/expensive reasons why so many MB and BMW vehicles get traded in right after 3yr or 36k mi.

Whether one of the two batteries takes you down, or one of one takes you down, it doesn't matter, or which one of the two.

Better software engineering would be to have one of the modules that are always on, maybe the BCM, prevent engine start when voltage is below a threshold, and display a SERVICE BATTERY message. That would be preferred to every CM freaking out due to low voltage. They couod display a LOW BATTERY when down to 12v, let the user know before there is a problem.

I'll be replacing the batts here before winter; parallel so effectively one battery. H7 will be in for the main. Whether I remove or replace the aux is not yet decided.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’m sure the heat is a big contributor. I try and turn it off every time. I suppose the stop/start system is like that little emissions module in my 84 cj7. Absolutely not needed for vehicle function and can run just fine without it. But Government emissions standards direct a nonessential subsystem be installed to make tree huggers feel better. I’d rather pay a 500 dollar emissions tax when I buy a new car to not have to deal with it. Similar thinking of putting turbo 4 cylinders in typical v6 platforms. Costs more by every measurable metric, does nothing for fuel consumption, and ends up being not as reliable and longevity diminishes.

A basic jeep with the turbo4 gets around 19-20 mpg in real world driving and a 6.3 L V8 in a corvette will easily get 27-28 mpg.

HA - comparing a brick to an arrow. Funny stuff.

As far as heat and batteries - pushing that button won't do anything other than prevent the engine from shutting down at a stop. All of the rest keeps on operating normally. There's no way to disable it, and even pressing the button won't make a hot battery last longer. If the heat is going to kill it, it will regardless of what's functioning or not.

Whether one of the two batteries takes you down, or one of one takes you down, it doesn't matter, or which one of the two.

You missed the part about this happening in systems with only one single battery - not just with Jeeps, either. It's a problem these days - modern vehicles, modern batteries, and how often or not they are driven and so on. People with other "cars" are griping about battery issues and being stuck.

Yes, it would be nice if there was some warning - but then, many drive with the MIL on as hey, it's still running fine, must be a fluke. Would people pay attention?
Some might - but how many watch their gauges in these anyway and don't see the clues presented by the volt meter every day - gee, it's always at 14.5 volts and never below - and they ignore that. I guess a big flashing red light in the middle of the cluster and the radio blaring out a warning at deafening levels may help.

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