Thinking about running freedom panels only

[HorneyBadger]

Do the back end of the freedom panels lock in in the center if the hardtop is off? I don’t have my JT yet. Just sold my JL and I don’t think I ever tried that, nor would I.

It's the same as the JL. No they do not.

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[am1978]

It's the same as the JL. No they do not.

That’s what I thought. Not anchored at all points. Not advisable IMHO.

 

[spectre6000]

As mentioned earlier with the "leather": Many mfgs have gone away from real leather, even if they advertise it as leather.

Outside of some luxury brands, and maybe a particular model or two from the domestics, the "leather" interiors are all synthetic.

The new Bronco is actually marketing one of the trims as having "marine-grade vinyl" for an interior option.

My wife was all excited at the prospect that we could drive to Utah with the top off. I reminded her it's a 1100 mile drive, over 3 passes and multiple climate zones.

That's not entirely true... It's usually genuine leather. If you imagine leather as a series of layers, the top layer is the skin that the hair came out of, then there's a dense layer, then a less dense layer (really it's more of a gradient), then that hairy looking layer you see on the back of really cheap stuff. If the leather features the very topmost layer, it's called "top grain" and often suffers from blemishes. It's really expensive stuff because it's really hard to keep cows from getting scarred up in any realistic scenario. Typically, this is sanded off, and a plasticky material is applied, colored, and textured. This is "corrected" or "genuine" leather. This is what's in cars and most nice-ish shoes. There are a variety of grades based on where it comes from in the stack.

The whole hide is thick enough to actually split (the technical term) into multiple layers. The top layer to come out of this is the good stuff. The next layer down is typically suede (or cheaper genuine leather like you find in mid-price shoes). The lower you get in the stack, the looser the fibers get, and the less strength the leather has. The worst stuff is bonded leather; it's like a leather hotdog. You take all the sweepings from the floor of the leather processing facility, stir it up with a bunch of goop, and extrude it into sheets. Found essentially in just cheap shoes and fake "luxury" goods.

Those waters run deep, and it's a domain unto itself, but cars with leather seats are actually leather. The topmost surface is just plasticky. In Jeep's case, they design these things to take a drenching. It may be that the leather is specially treated for this, but it's also very entirely possible that they assume that if you check that box, you intend to not let that happen. Leather can get wet without suffering much damage (it gets wet as part of manufacturing), but it's a lot like a sponge, and stuff can and will grow in it if given enough of an opportunity.

 

[MPMB]

That's not entirely true... It's usually genuine leather. If you imagine leather as a series of layers, the top layer is the skin that the hair came out of, then there's a dense layer, then a less dense layer (really it's more of a gradient), then that hairy looking layer you see on the back of really cheap stuff. If the leather features the very topmost layer, it's called "top grain" and often suffers from blemishes. It's really expensive stuff because it's really hard to keep cows from getting scarred up in any realistic scenario. Typically, this is sanded off, and a plasticky material is applied, colored, and textured. This is "corrected" or "genuine" leather. This is what's in cars and most nice-ish shoes. There are a variety of grades based on where it comes from in the stack.

The whole hide is thick enough to actually split (the technical term) into multiple layers. The top layer to come out of this is the good stuff. The next layer down is typically suede (or cheaper genuine leather like you find in mid-price shoes). The lower you get in the stack, the looser the fibers get, and the less strength the leather has. The worst stuff is bonded leather; it's like a leather hotdog. You take all the sweepings from the floor of the leather processing facility, stir it up with a bunch of goop, and extrude it into sheets. Found essentially in just cheap shoes and fake "luxury" goods.

Those waters run deep, and it's a domain unto itself, but cars with leather seats are actually leather. The topmost surface is just plasticky. In Jeep's case, they design these things to take a drenching. It may be that the leather is specially treated for this, but it's also very entirely possible that they assume that if you check that box, you intend to not let that happen. Leather can get wet without suffering much damage (it gets wet as part of manufacturing), but it's a lot like a sponge, and stuff can and will grow in it if given enough of an opportunity.

I said many mfgs have gone away from real leather. Not all, and not all vehicles. And many vehicles that do have real leather it's usually just the seating surfaces; a small portion of the overall interior. I'm not disputing the method on how leather interiors are made.

Any vehicle that says it has "leather" and proceeds to give it a name (Alcantara, SofTex, Artico, Sensatec, NuLux, vegan leather, leatherette, Ultrasuede, etc) is not leather.

Off the top of my head, I know these manufacturers use fake leather - yet depicted as "leather" in marketing - in some of their interiors (not sure if in all):
M-B
Lexus
BMW
Toyota
VW
Kia/Hyundai

 

[5JeepsAz]

'Ah-leather' it ain't. Saddle leather it ain't. What it is, is, leather 'look and feel'. Welcome to the hybrid era. Next thing? It'll adjust itself to soothe your butt. Oh wait. We already have heated and cooled leather seats. What bugs me are the little holes. Why do tthey put those?

 

[Murgatroid]

Do the back end of the freedom panels lock in in the center if the hardtop is off? I don’t have my JT yet. Just sold my JL and I don’t think I ever tried that, nor would I.

You lose one lever lock down, I can't remember right now which one, I think the back outside one. But the three lock it down with no play. No way it is flying off.

 

[spectre6000]

I said many mfgs have gone away from real leather. Not all, and not all vehicles. And many vehicles that do have real leather it's usually just the seating surfaces; a small portion of the overall interior. I'm not disputing the method on how leather interiors are made.

Any vehicle that says it has "leather" and proceeds to give it a name (Alcantara, SofTex, Artico, Sensatec, NuLux, vegan leather, leatherette, Ultrasuede, etc) is not leather.

Off the top of my head, I know these manufacturers use fake leather - yet depicted as "leather" in marketing - in some of their interiors (not sure if in all):
M-B
Lexus
BMW
Toyota
VW
Kia/Hyundai

Mercedes has been using a synthetic leather called MB Tex for decades. It's not leather, but they don't say it is. Their leather is actually leather.

Lexus and Toyota use genuine leather, and are pretty clear about it.

My BMW was genuine leather. It certainly wasn't good, but it was real. About on par with the leather in my Chevy.

I had some vinyl interiors in some really old VWs (late '50s, early 60s), but they never called them anything but vinyl. I've been in VWs with leather interiors, but never had any reason to inspect anything upholstery.

No experience with Hyundai, or KIA leather directly.

All of the named "leathers" aren't actually called leather anywhere that I've seen. Individual idiot salespeople may say it's leather, but the average car salesman lasts 6 weeks on the job (true fact, at least from a few years ago when I was in the industry).

Things that look leather-ish aren't leather. You're correct about that. However, I've never seen anything in any car that was in any way called leather that was anything less than genuine leather. I've definitely seen some genuine leathers (like what's in the Suburban currently in my driveway) that were really plasticky and low quality, but never anything that purported to be leather without being leather.

 

[am1978]

You lose one lever lock down, I can't remember right now which one, I think the back outside one. But the three lock it down with no play. No way it is flying off.

You sure it’s not the rear center?

 

[MPMB]

Mercedes has been using a synthetic leather called MB Tex for decades. It's not leather, but they don't say it is. Their leather is actually leather.

Lexus and Toyota use genuine leather, and are pretty clear about it.

My BMW was genuine leather. It certainly wasn't good, but it was real. About on par with the leather in my Chevy.

I had some vinyl interiors in some really old VWs (late '50s, early 60s), but they never called them anything but vinyl. I've been in VWs with leather interiors, but never had any reason to inspect anything upholstery.

No experience with Hyundai, or KIA leather directly.

All of the named "leathers" aren't actually called leather anywhere that I've seen. Individual idiot salespeople may say it's leather, but the average car salesman lasts 6 weeks on the job (true fact, at least from a few years ago when I was in the industry).

Things that look leather-ish aren't leather. You're correct about that. However, I've never seen anything in any car that was in any way called leather that was anything less than genuine leather. I've definitely seen some genuine leathers (like what's in the Suburban currently in my driveway) that were really plasticky and low quality, but never anything that purported to be leather without being leather.

I've spent a year looking at and researching Tacomas and rabbit-holed a while ago when I found out that the "leather" in the Tacomas isn't real leather. Despite being listed as leather on websites everywhere.

The Limited trim is the only Tacoma with real leather; the rest are the SofTex imitation leather.

And while corporate information tends to be accurate when acknowledging leather/leatherette/vegan/etc (because lawsuits), dealer sites and other auto listings identify the interiors as leather, not synthetic. Search features have two options: cloth or leather. Even when that vehicle is known to not have leather (VWs come to mind), they're classified as leather.

Kia got in trouble because they tried to pass off fake leather as real. Which I faintly remember years ago manufacturers tried doing that. And that's when all the fancy names for interiors came out. Corinthian (slightly before my time), Alcantara, etc. Kia calls theirs Sofino Synthetic Leather. I don't believe they always had "synthetic" in there.

If a customer sees an interior and goes, "oh, it's leather?" does the salesperson really answer? Or do they kinda nod and avoid answering the question with some other distrative comment?

I'm not saying all leather interiors are fake leather. I'm saying that manufacturers started going away from all leather interiors (clarification- for leather-interior options/trim levels) across the board, and the move to synthetics muddies the waters. Mfgs and dealers have also gotten a little loose with their imitation leather naming terms and marketing verbiage, and are doing a good job at hiding that fact. I think it's ridiculous that mfgs are upcharging the buying public for fake leather interiors.

 

[Slojo]

Freedom Tops in the targa configuration. I did not see anything in the JT manual about doing this option. The JKs had retainer screws that went through the roll bar to the panels.

 

[Murgatroid]

You sure it’s not the rear center?

I just checked, the center latches onto the center of the black roll bar/speaker pc., it is the rear outside that latches onto the inside top white plastic pc.

 

[Murgatroid]

I've spent a year looking at and researching Tacomas and rabbit-holed a while ago when I found out that the "leather" in the Tacomas isn't real leather. Despite being listed as leather on websites everywhere.

The Limited trim is the only Tacoma with real leather; the rest are the SofTex imitation leather.

And while corporate information tends to be accurate when acknowledging leather/leatherette/vegan/etc (because lawsuits), dealer sites and other auto listings identify the interiors as leather, not synthetic. Search features have two options: cloth or leather. Even when that vehicle is known to not have leather (VWs come to mind), they're classified as leather.

Kia got in trouble because they tried to pass off fake leather as real. Which I faintly remember years ago manufacturers tried doing that. And that's when all the fancy names for interiors came out. Corinthian (slightly before my time), Alcantara, etc. Kia calls theirs Sofino Synthetic Leather. I don't believe they always had "synthetic" in there.

If a customer sees an interior and goes, "oh, it's leather?" does the salesperson really answer? Or do they kinda nod and avoid answering the question with some other distrative comment?

I'm not saying all leather interiors are fake leather. I'm saying that manufacturers started going away from all leather interiors (clarification- for leather-interior options/trim levels) across the board, and the move to synthetics muddies the waters. Mfgs and dealers have also gotten a little loose with their imitation leather naming terms and marketing verbiage, and are doing a good job at hiding that fact. I think it's ridiculous that mfgs are upcharging the buying public for fake leather interiors.

Always think of Ricardo Montalban saying, "rich Corinthian leather"

 

[Kevin_D]

I just checked, the center latches onto the center of the black roll bar/speaker pc., it is the rear outside that latches onto the inside top white plastic pc.

Yup.
With the main top removed, you only lose the rear outside latch points for the Freedom panels.

Kevin

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

'Ah-leather' it ain't. Saddle leather it ain't. What it is, is, leather 'look and feel'. Welcome to the hybrid era. Next thing? It'll adjust itself to soothe your butt. Oh wait. We already have heated and cooled leather seats. What bugs me are the little holes. Why do tthey put those?

Ventilation. IF you didn't have them sweat would collect between your leather and the seat leather. The cooled seat is a duct inside the seat so the cool dry air flows out, chilling the seat structure and wafting cool air as you move. The heating is ribbon strips and as you warm you sweat, the holes let the warm moist air waft as you move. Either way it's to keep your skin comfortable and dry.

Or to bother your trypophobia as part of a massive global conspiracy with YOU as the targeted individual.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

My apologies to those who may have been inadvertently triggered. I'm sorry it makes you feel the way you do.

Okay enough of that, no seriously, I'm sorry. Someone dear to me has an issue with fish scales and related patterns and I've learned to cook it skin side down or eat alone, by myself, thinking about what I've done.

But yeah, it's for ventilation and keeping you from getting all sweaty.

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