Towing Camper without Max Tow

[sroberts1519]

Good thing is the trailer I’m looking at is 3500. Well under the max.

Last night I put a deposit down on a Freedom Express 192RBS with a dry weight of around 4150. The trailer is currently being built, and no idea of when it will roll off the assembly line or when it will be shipped....
I will be towing with a factory (no lift, no bigger tires, etc) JT Overland (6000 pound tow capacity). It is going to be just me and the wife. Ultimately, I concluded that a 4200 (dry) tandem axle trailer would probably tow better than a 3500 (dry) single axle trailer. I will be mainly towing in the flat lands of Oklahoma. I also will be adding wdh with sway control and a brake controller.

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[Gvsukids]

You're getting close on tow capacity with that size camper. Factor in weight of passengers, cargo, supplies, fuel; you'll be nearing your capacity, which isn't good.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The bad news is modern manual transmission's are not what they was in the past, the one's being made now are to maximize MPG if anything. "Muncie" and like is gone. You, I and many more might not like it. I'm not going to say manual transmission is dead. But it's not getting R&D that automatics have been for heavy duty use (USA and Europe) OTR trucks are using automatic transmission even. I've been towing with the 6 speed manual in my LJ up to 5k I do have trailer brake controller for it too. The manual it said no need to change it, I have been changing it every few years at least. That transmission was considered a light duty one.
Late models light duty clutch low clamping force for less driver effort AKA easy drive-ablity. The last part is possible the manual transmission problems on JL/JT's ???

WHAT?? No world class T5? No Muncie 4 speed with Hurst shifter? Bummer.

The automatic of course has a torque converter - so it can multiply torque when taking off, more gears and it's programmed for towing keeping you in the correct RPM range for engine power and efficiency. Sticks are fun, "manly" (don't tell the guys winning races with a Powerglide whomping stick shifters), and I enjoy a stick - people like me do because it keeps me thinking and occupied where I'd often drift off to na-na land with an automatic doing it all (ADHD - if nothing is happening, I get BORED)
But for backing, maneuvering, and hills and torque when you need it, the automatic will be rated for higher towing. If you've ever worked on a modern stick -AND have worked on those from the 60s and 70s (like what I grew up with) you'd see why.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Last night I put a deposit down on a Freedom Express 192RBS with a dry weight of around 4150. The trailer is currently being built, and no idea of when it will roll off the assembly line or when it will be shipped....
I will be towing with a factory (no lift, no bigger tires, etc) JT Overland (6000 pound tow capacity). It is going to be just me and the wife. Ultimately, I concluded that a 4200 (dry) tandem axle trailer would probably tow better than a 3500 (dry) single axle trailer. I will be mainly towing in the flat lands of Oklahoma. I also will be adding wdh with sway control and a brake controller.

4200 dry. Add LP and tank, any water in the tanks, food, bedding, clothes, other supplies, perhaps a TV, etc. and you'll be over that. I'll be conservative and say you'll be at 4700. That's 470 tongue weight. You have about a 1,000 payload on an Overland unless it's a BASE OVerland with no options at all. So take 470 tongue weight from the 1,000 and you have 530 pounds left. Say you weigh 200 and your wife 130, there's another 330 to subtract so now you have 200 pounds left for payload - stuff you toss in the truck. (or have added TO the truck, winch, bumpers, whatever)

Water is about 8.3 pounds per gallon or so - so 50 gallons of water in the camper adds over 400 pounds to the camper. If it's dry weight of 4200 and you have 50 gallons of water, you are now at over 4600 pounds with nothing else in the camper.

Just thinking, musing and figuring as I also have an Overland and will be towing a car hauler (1500) plus car (3200) and have to keep the same things in mind. Your weight won't be a whole lot different than mine in some ways.

 

[Blade1668]

ShadowsPapa
I didn't want to get to wordy and figured you would be back by with "the rest of the story" I was at Summit Racing few years back looking at a powerglide and thinking I needed one but didn't know what for. I should have probably got it and installed in my XJ. Then just made it in to trail vehicle only.

 

[sroberts1519]

4200 dry. Add LP and tank, any water in the tanks, food, bedding, clothes, other supplies, perhaps a TV, etc. and you'll be over that. I'll be conservative and say you'll be at 4700. That's 470 tongue weight. You have about a 1,000 payload on an Overland unless it's a BASE OVerland with no options at all. So take 470 tongue weight from the 1,000 and you have 530 pounds left. Say you weigh 200 and your wife 130, there's another 330 to subtract so now you have 200 pounds left for payload - stuff you toss in the truck. (or have added TO the truck, winch, bumpers, whatever)

Water is about 8.3 pounds per gallon or so - so 50 gallons of water in the camper adds over 400 pounds to the camper. If it's dry weight of 4200 and you have 50 gallons of water, you are now at over 4600 pounds with nothing else in the camper.

Just thinking, musing and figuring as I also have an Overland and will be towing a car hauler (1500) plus car (3200) and have to keep the same things in mind. Your weight won't be a whole lot different than mine in some ways.

Wow, just wow!!! You attacked me in a different thread, and now in this thread.

For atleast the 4th time, lets go over the facts again. You keep adding all kinds of mods to my JT, that I will NEVER consider adding to my JT. I will never add a winch, upgraded bumper, lift it, go bigger tires, etc. NEVER!!! Do you get that???? The only things I have added is a soft tonnea (around 15 pounds) cover and a small tool bag (around 15 pounds). everything else is stock. I guess, according to you, "the expert" 30 pounds will break a Jeep. Or is it my 7 pound dog that will be in the JT that break the JT? Or is it the 4 bottled drinks we will have in the JT? or maybe the bag of chips to snack on? Or is it the aftermarket floor mats that I added, that actually weigh less than the stock Jeep carpet floormats? To make it more clear to you, I will never add any heavy mods to my JT - and all of the misc stuff that may be in the truck, I have already accounted for, and in fact added a fudge factor on top of that.

Also, you keep adding things to my trailer, that I have already stated I will never tow with. My tanks will be dry, except for around 5 gallons of water in the fresh water tank - enough to be able to use the restroom, or wash my hands during a typical 5 hour tow. yep, my tow distance in a day will never be over 5 or 6 hours. I will never boondock, or dry camp. I will always be glamping in a camp ground with hookups, and a dumping station for me to empty my tanks before I roll home. (Even though I will always empty my tanks before I travel home, I even accounted for residual leftover in the black and grey water tanks)

I have spent countless hours putting together everything that will go into my camper and truck, weighing each item, and generating spreadsheets tracking and calculating everything. Even after that, I have put a fudge factor in where I have added additional weight to the trailer and truck. And spent additional hours performing engineering analysis on the different sub-components of my JT.

My trailer, wet, loaded, and dripping wet after being washed before I hit the road will weigh in at around 4750 pounds. Most everyone on this forum, except you, think that a overland will be able to tow that. The facts that I know are this: I will be 1000+ pounds under my tow capacity, I will be 1000+ pounds under my GCVWR. I will be under both front and rear GAWR. I will be 50 to 100 pounds over the GVWR of the JT. Yes, I have already weighed my JT (when I got a load of dirt), and know what my JT weighs with me, and my wife, and a full tank of gas (I didnt have my 7 pound dog on board, so I am sure all hell is going to break loose when I add him). 50 pounds (from GVWR of 5800) is 0.8%. According to NIST Handbook 44, heavier scales very well may not have the division scalars to measure less than 50 or 100 pound increments. To put this in perspective, you are arguing weights that may be less than what is measurable.

The bottom line is it is my truck, my trailer, but you cant seem to leave me alone - why do you care? Either your are a troll, or have unresolved issues.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Wow, where was the attack? Did you read my last sentences? I was simply tossing out numbers and thinking aloud. You didn't give specifics either - dry trailer weight - who knew you were not hauling anything in it? Or did you post that you would be hauling it at dry weight and I missed that? I see no attack.
You also must consider that many members and many more non-members will be looking over the posts and using them for their own configuration or planning. Say someone was considering buying a JT - and had a camper in mind. They'll google, find these posts and read and buy or not based on what they see. (the forum I run has thousands of non-member hits every week, people doing research)
That's it. No attack that I saw or even intended. I even tried to be careful and thus the last lines I added.
We aren't the only ones using these as guidelines.
Sorry if you see it as an attack. Why would it be?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

ShadowsPapa
I didn't want to get to wordy and figured you would be back by with "the rest of the story" I was at Summit Racing few years back looking at a powerglide and thinking I needed one but didn't know what for. I should have probably got it and installed in my XJ. Then just made it in to trail vehicle only.

Don't forget to put the I6 in front of that powserslide. ;-)

 

[sroberts1519]

Wow, where was the attack? Did you read my last sentences? I was simply tossing out numbers and thinking aloud. You didn't give specifics either - dry trailer weight - who knew you were not hauling anything in it? Or did you post that you would be hauling it at dry weight and I missed that? I see no attack.
You also must consider that many members and many more non-members will be looking over the posts and using them for their own configuration or planning. Say someone was considering buying a JT - and had a camper in mind. They'll google, find these posts and read and buy or not based on what they see. (the forum I run has thousands of non-member hits every week, people doing research)
That's it. No attack that I saw or even intended. I even tried to be careful and thus the last lines I added.
We aren't the only ones using these as guidelines.
Sorry if you see it as an attack. Why would it be?

hmmm. in the last thread we discussed, I pointed out to you atleast 3 times in that thread that my tanks would basically be dry, and in that thread, I basically outlined how I added every thing up (no winch or other aftermarket upgrades/mods). Then you come on this thread and added back everything that I told you in the other thread that I wouldnt be towing. You coming back with the same non-factual arguments (for my specific case) that I already told you were false in the other thread, is in fact, somewhat attacking me.

Since I had already made it clear to you on the other thread what I would and would not be towing, if you wanted to reply to this thread, for other non-members to learn from, a better response would have been: (summarized) If you are towing dry, as long as you pay close attention to all the numbers (GCVWR, tow, GVWR-both truck and trailer, GAWR, etc), you probably be ok. But most people tow with full tanks, 500 pounds of unnecessary stuff, etc, and can easily add 1500 pounds to the UVW of the trailer, in which then, you would be grossly over weight.

It is all how you present your argument/discussion on how it is interpreted.

 

[Gvsukids]

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...-tow-capacity-with-trailer-tow-package.21456/

 

[JHTrail]

Ok, time for an update. We've towed 3 times with no issues (knock on wood). The camper is 3380, so I'm probably around 3900 loaded up. The break controller is a big help, glad I added it. Getting around 10.5 MPG. I'm very pleased so far! We're having a blast!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Nice looking rig. The MPG i'd be a tad disappointed in personally, but then it's only about 1 to 1.5 less than I got with my Silverado - and you are towing a taller rig than my car hauler would have been, so your number is likely to be considered decent for these hauling a camper with that profile. I like how your setup looks, all set up and ready to enjoy.

 

[SwampNut]

Last night I put a deposit down on a Freedom Express 192RBS with a dry weight of around 4150. The trailer is currently being built, and no idea of when it will roll off the assembly line or when it will be shipped....
I will be towing with a factory (no lift, no bigger tires, etc) JT Overland (6000 pound tow capacity). It is going to be just me and the wife. Ultimately, I concluded that a 4200 (dry) tandem axle trailer would probably tow better than a 3500 (dry) single axle trailer. I will be mainly towing in the flat lands of Oklahoma. I also will be adding wdh with sway control and a brake controller.

Aside from all the other mud slinging, I would very strongly agree with your choice to get a weight distribution hitch. I've towed a lot of things, with a lot of different vehicles. The WD system on a lighter vehicle helps tremendously. I had it for a 3500# trailer on my JK, and still use it on the JT. It still helps a lot compared to towing without it.

 

[JHTrail]

Aside from all the other mud slinging, I would very strongly with your choice to get a weight distribution hitch. I've towed a lot of things, with a lot of different vehicles. The WD system on a lighter vehicle helps tremendously. I had it for a 3500# trailer on my JK, and still use it on the JT. It still helps a lot compared to towing without it.

Yes sir, I have that as well!

 

[sroberts1519]

Aside from all the other mud slinging, I would very strongly agree with your choice to get a weight distribution hitch. I've towed a lot of things, with a lot of different vehicles. The WD system on a lighter vehicle helps tremendously. I had it for a 3500# trailer on my JK, and still use it on the JT. It still helps a lot compared to towing without it.

Yes, I have only owned one other RV, but from my experience, a WDH and sway control is required for any RV (unless you are towing a small trailer with a 1 ton truck, then it might not be needed). The first RV I had was a high-walled Fleetwood tent trailer, loaded probably around 3300. Even on that trailer, a WDH helped out alot. YMMV

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