Understanding Dana 44 Axle and M210/M220

[bastage]

Trac Lok is not included with all Max Tow models. My Oct 2019 build has Max Tow & No TracLok. That has to do with when it was actually built.

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[PyrPatriot]

Trac Lok is not included with all Max Tow models. My Oct 2019 build has Max Tow & No TracLok. That has to do with when it was actually built.

Same

Now, should I feel bad about not having the Trac-Lock system and why didnt Jeep include it earlier

 

[mfrgs12]

I don't have it either. Sep 19 build, before they started adding it to MaxTow.

 

[WSU JKU]

Yup, it was an option but not included.

 

[WXman]

If you got the max tow, then you got the Trac Lok.
It's part of the max tow package.

Yes it is.

It is also a standalone option, but the Max Tow gets a trac lok automatically.

For the first 8-9 months of production, you could not get Trac-Lok with Max Tow.

Early this year, I suppose people griped about it enough that Jeep added it to the Max Tow package, but also jacked the price of the package up $100.

Personally, I'd rather not have it. It adds complexity, requires additives with each fluid change, and doesn't function well on slick, icy roadways. It also doesn't handle harsh off-road use well because the clutches don't have enough friction to simulate a true locker. So, I'd rather do without it.

 

[PyrPatriot]

Personally, I'd rather not have it. It adds complexity, requires additives with each fluid change, and doesn't function well on slick, icy roadways. It also doesn't handle harsh off-road use well because the clutches don't have enough friction to simulate a true locker. So, I'd rather do without it.

This in encouraging to me. You're right, p.360 of the manual says Trac-Lock systems need a friction modifier.

Why wouldn't it function well on slick surfaces?

If they don't function well on harsh-offroad use because they don't have the friction of a true locker, is it better to have a system without the limited-slip? Wouldn't something be better than nothing, extra complexity of maintenance aside?

This guy seems to share your view

Trac-Loc is best defined as "better than nothing." After about 30K miles it is "the same as nothing." It has clutches that wear every mile you drive. I would not waste money replacing the clutches. Much better LSD or locking differentials are available. If the option package I wanted required it, I would get it. Otherwise, I would pass.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...l-rear-axle-vs-rubicon.2575/page-6#post-40311

To which the discussion went

That’s only if you’re using it a lot, and 30,000 miles would even be a low estimate then. Typical rebukd time-frames are more around the 100,000+ mile mark, with a 50,000 mile rebuild be for someone using them for extensive off-roading, 30K would be for someone pushing them much harder where they would’ve been better served by a dedicated built-up off-road rig from a Sport or similar base. They would be the candidate for TruTrac, and realistically likely an LSD+Locker like the Eaton.

Even then rebuild kits are $150-250, a complete unit replacement can be had for about twice that, and either can be done by the dealership usually for a few hundred more. The question becomes if you see as much benefit from an LSD as you do from other components like tyres, etc.

For a soft-roading user they’re going to be fine for the usual life of their vehicle, and by the 100,000 mile mark rebuilding the LSD like rebuilding a manual transmission will be worth it for the benefits they provide to that driver.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

And yet it's funny how little I use my lockers compared to my swaybar disconnect. I'm willing to be that most owners could be given and lsd, never told and live long happy jeeping lives doing jeep stuff.

Looking at it another way, LSD and modern traction control do an amazing job of faking lockers. Yes you may not be able to chest hair your way up the mountain but I sure do chuckle everytime I see a crossover suv out on the beach just motoring through. Yeah i can do more and go further and my rig looks boss but they are doing it to.

As for magic elf fluid, most of the high end fluids already have it tossed it for the same price, wont harm a non-lsd in the least.

But fear not, you can always buy the elocker from dana/mopar and they sell a stand alone harness to run it.

 

[brianinca]

I went to the effort to replace the clutch LSD in my old Ranger with a heavier sprung Ford Motorsports LSD. The clutch plates wear and start losing effectiveness as soon as 25K miles. For both my old Explorer and my YJ, which both had factory clutch LSD's, I replaced them with TrueTracs, which are a helical geared Torsen type LSD.

Those will be available for the D44's in the JT's at some point, and they work GREAT. Have over 80K on my Explorer and 15K with my YJ, not a locker but darned effective.

Edit to add: The friction modifier is important! My CFO's old Tundra had the weirdest clunk in the rearend, the Toyota dealer threw up their hands. Took it to our own shop guys, they called it as friction modifier missing, problem solved.

This in encouraging to me. You're right, p.360 of the manual says Trac-Lock systems need a friction modifier.

Why wouldn't it function well on slick surfaces?

If they don't function well on harsh-offroad use because they don't have the friction of a true locker, is it better to have a system without the limited-slip? Wouldn't something be better than nothing, extra complexity of maintenance aside?

This guy seems to share your view



https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...l-rear-axle-vs-rubicon.2575/page-6#post-40311

To which the discussion went

 

[bastage]

But fear not, you can always buy the elocker from dana/mopar and they sell a stand alone harness to run it.

Please prove this with a link to buy the eLocker without having to buy a whole new axle... I'll wait with my credit card #'s handy.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

This in encouraging to me. You're right, p.360 of the manual says Trac-Lock systems need a friction modifier.

Why wouldn't it function well on slick surfaces?

If they don't function well on harsh-offroad use because they don't have the friction of a true locker, is it better to have a system without the limited-slip? Wouldn't something be better than nothing, extra complexity of maintenance aside?

As noted the friction modifier is to make the fluid have more bite for the clutches. But this only comes into play when you have wheel slip. How often are we really slipping out wheels on pavement without intending to? The FM is also part of the fluid, buy this jug with it or that jug without it, same cost per quart.

The issue with slick surfaces is that that the diff gets overwhelmed, from a stop the surface is slick so it sees slip and locks but now youre rolling what slip there was appears to go away so it unlocks but thats enough impulse to cause slip again so it locks and the whole things cascades until you mash the go pedal and spin everything all the time. But its better than nothing. And in this type case, lockers arent helping much either, Ive had the back end start stepping out like a part time girlfriend at a light and worried I might drift into someone.

In serious conditions an LSD will be out performed by a locker hands down. While a friction clutch system relies on the clamping/friction force of the spring and clutch pack to force an equal left right power split, a locker uses a ring of steel to join the left and right shafts in unison. But the down side is once you spin, youre spinning. All the gabble about complexity and maintenance overhauls is hot air because IF you manage to wear out the clutch pack, its cheaper to buy a new carrier than pay the shop to rebuild. But... it is possible to tune and tweak the clutch pack to give you what you need, say track racing etc where you need it locked 90% of the time and only slippy when turning. But I digress.

If you had a gun to your head and were told build a mad max machine Id recomend an LSD front and manual locking, most performance most of the time.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Please prove this with a link to buy the eLocker without having to buy a whole new axle... I'll wait with my credit card #'s handy.

I'd love to but as yet Dana/Spicer isn't offering it yet for the JT. Yup, whole axle looks to be the way.

But good news is you can buy the whole axle in either 44 or 60 flavor.
https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/DAG-JK-JL-JT-PRODBRO-92019.pdf

 

[bastage]

I'd love to but as yet Dana/Spicer isn't offering it yet for the JT. Yup, whole axle looks to be the way.

But good news is you can buy the whole axle in either 44 or 60 flavor.
https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/DAG-JK-JL-JT-PRODBRO-92019.pdf

Yeah my wallet wont stand for that kind of a purchase right now. I have already contemplated the 16k+ to get a set of 60's

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

If it helps mine won't either. But like any good catalog, it never hurt to just look right?

Wife walks in; what were you doing?
Just reading...
Yeah? why's your hand in your pants?
I umm... umm I... masturbating!?!
Put that wallet down, NOW!

 

[bastage]

If it helps mine won't either. But like any good catalog, it never hurt to just look right?

Wife walks in; what were you doing?
Just reading...
Yeah? why's your hand in your pants?
I umm... umm I... masturbating!?!
Put that wallet down, NOW!

I am divorced... So for me its the Girlfriend just walked in & goes "oh god what are you buying now... ya know what I dont care" and then I buy it..

Best is when I ask an opinion such as 2 different options on PRP seat covers & she is like "350 for seat covers, what the fu*k" & I am like "thats just the front, but that doesn't answer which one looks better"... That ended with her saying "whatever makes you happy dear"

 

[d k]

That seems crazy..

Has anyone jacked up the diff and actually checked?

For the first 8-9 months of production, you could not get Trac-Lok with Max Tow.

Early this year, I suppose people griped about it enough that Jeep added it to the Max Tow package, but also jacked the price of the package up $100.

Personally, I'd rather not have it. It adds complexity, requires additives with each fluid change, and doesn't function well on slick, icy roadways. It also doesn't handle harsh off-road use well because the clutches don't have enough friction to simulate a true locker. So, I'd rather do without it.

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