Updated Steering - Not so Updated

[ShadowsPapa]

Its either alignment or something to do with the tires.

Swapping them left to right is free and quick. So doing it first makes sense.

I suspect that won't change anything. But its worth a shot.

That leaves alignment.

Is the caster even adjustable on the Gladiator without using aftermarket cam bolts?

Don

You can't align a JT - you can set toe.
Camber is welded in - can't be changed without parts.
Caster is set - can't be changed without swapping control arms.
Caster difference left to right can't be changed at all.

theres a chance your new box is crap. Ive been through 2 and had a right pull. Numerous others have reported the same. A right pull. Dont believe its your alignment and or something on your truck always. Mine didnt even start pulling or have any sort of right pull until my new gear. I went round and round for a few weeks, and its still not 100%

Yes. My Overland got the new steering gear fall of 2020. Wasn't too bad, some better, but got worse over the winter. I took it back and simply asked them to check it and do alignment. They called me later and said they wanted to keep my truck and replace the steering gear.

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[dcmdon]

You can't align a JT - you can set toe.
Camber is welded in - can't be changed without parts.
Caster is set - can't be changed without swapping control arms.
Caster difference left to right can't be changed at all.

Hmm.
Toe in is easy but generally doesn't result in the car pulling to one side if toe in is
off.

Camber . . well, its a stick axle.

I wasn't sure if caster could be tweaked. If there was any way to change the steering pivot angle. Either way, if it was built "off" from side to side, that could result in a pull.

 

[Chris262]

Is your steering wheel not straight? I get customers tell me their cars are pulling all the time but its really the steering wheel not being straight and they're pulling it straight.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Hmm.
Toe in is easy but generally doesn't result in the car pulling to one side if toe in is
off.

Camber . . well, its a stick axle.

I wasn't sure if caster could be tweaked. If there was any way to change the steering pivot angle. Either way, if it was built "off" from side to side, that could result in a pull.

Toe out can cause wander............not pull.

General rules (comes from racers/performance)
More Toe out = wander , decreases understeer , quicker turn in
More Toe In = good stability , increases understeer , takes up slack in linkage

With toe out the car will oversteer at speed.
The wheel will be constantly needing input to track in a straight line.
Any bias to one side or the other sends the car in that direction.

In short, toe out = bad and wander.
And steering boxes like we have, have a "high spot" when perfectly centered, so if the wheel isn't perfectly centered, steering can be less than ideal.

Rear wheel drive vehicles need some toe-in and the steering wheel perfectly centered - because off-center there's MORE LASH in the steering sector! In other words, if you are going straight but the wheel is crooked, your steering gear is running where it has the most lash or play.

 

[dcmdon]

Toe out can cause wander............not pull.

General rules (comes from racers/performance)
More Toe out = wander , decreases understeer , quicker turn in
More Toe In = good stability , increases understeer , takes up slack in linkage

With toe out the car will oversteer at speed.
The wheel will be constantly needing input to track in a straight line.
Any bias to one side or the other sends the car in that direction.

In short, toe out = bad and wander.
And steering boxes like we have, have a "high spot" when perfectly centered, so if the wheel isn't perfectly centered, steering can be less than ideal.

Rear wheel drive vehicles need some toe-in and the steering wheel perfectly centered - because off-center there's MORE LASH in the steering sector! In other words, if you are going straight but the wheel is crooked, your steering gear is running where it has the most lash or play.

Is the lash just off center a function of it having recirculating ball steering?

My dad and I used to autocross an RX7 GSL-SE. It was the 1st gen car with the "big" second gen engine. When we got to the parking lot / race track, we would dial in toe out. Then for the ride home we would dial the toe in back in. After a while it was pretty easy.

We had a trailer hitch on the car with a receiver mounted rack that held 4 mounted racing tires. It was pretty cool.

So one day I forgot to put the toe in back in for the ride home. Let me tell you. It was interesting. As you know, autocross is a low speed game. But on the highway, this thing was all over the road. It followed the crown like a magnet. Left lane - it pulled to the left. Right lane - it pulled to the right.

Terrible. But boy does toe out help with turn in speed.

 

[Victoryrider78]

Is your steering wheel not straight? I get customers tell me their cars are pulling all the time but its really the steering wheel not being straight and they're pulling it straight.

My steering wheel is not straight ( another complaint of mine ). Its actually tweaked to the right a little, but that means if I was pulling it straight the truck would be pulling left.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My steering wheel is not straight ( another complaint of mine ). Its actually tweaked to the right a little, but that means if I was pulling it straight the truck would be pulling left.

Correction - it would not be "pulling" left, it would be GOING left.
Pulling is totally different. Pulling is when the vehicle wants to go left (or right) and you are trying to make it go straight REGARDLESS of the steering wheel position.
Pulling is when you want to go straight, you aim the truck straight, you let go of the wheel and it goes either right or left instead of straight.

If it is not pulling, you can let go of the wheel and it will continue to track in the direction it was going when you let go.

Maybe that's where some of the confusion about handling comes from - a pull is when the vehicle is fighting or contradicting your intentions. It's not the direction it goes based on where you have the steering wheel.

 

[Victoryrider78]

Correction - it would not be "pulling" left, it would be GOING left.
Pulling is totally different. Pulling is when the vehicle wants to go left (or right) and you are trying to make it go straight REGARDLESS of the steering wheel position.
Pulling is when you want to go straight, you aim the truck straight, you let go of the wheel and it goes either right or left instead of straight.

If it is not pulling, you can let go of the wheel and it will continue to track in the direction it was going when you let go.

Maybe that's where some of the confusion about handling comes from - a pull is when the vehicle is fighting or contradicting your intentions. It's not the direction it goes based on where you have the steering wheel.

When I said pulling, I meant me as the driver pulling to the left to straighten the wheel that is cocked to the right. The truck itself is pulling to the right when I let go of the wheel.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I asked the service writer today for a copy of my alignment numbers from May when they replaced the steering gear again (2nd steel box).

They couldn't find the numbers, just where it said an alignment was done/checked.
He asked the service manager to look as apparently the manager has more or deeper access to details. Nope, numbers not there.

I said "I'd sure like to see the numbers sort of as a baseline and to see if the MOPAR lower control arms for the 2" lift would be worthwhile for me - but I didn't want to make any changes without knowing what my numbers were.
I simply acted disappointed that they couldn't find the numbers and thanked him for looking.
And guess what they did -
They put my truck on the rack, had their best alignment guy do it (apparently as an apology for not having my numbers for me the first time) and they gave me a printout of my truck's current alignment numbers.

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