Warranty work while tuned

[ArmyMP]

These cases have more to do with right-to-repair. Please stop driving this thread away from its true purpose to help OP avoid a potential dealer conflict due to his tuner.

Right to Repair is also Right to Mod. And as such is Magnusson Moss.

Once again A tune alone is not an immediate warranty void.

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[Chris262]

First TRX to hit our lot and sold came back a couple weeks later with a blown engine. Tuner installed and the claim was denied... guy pissed and moaned to Stellantis for weeks and got no where. Had to pay for a replacement engine out of pocket...

 

[ecidiego]

First TRX to hit our lot and sold came back a couple weeks later with a blown engine. Tuner installed and the claim was denied... guy pissed and moaned to Stellantis for weeks and got no where. Had to pay for a replacement engine out of pocket...

Not surprised. What was that, 25k?

 

[Chris262]

Not surprised. What was that, 25k?

The long block itself with no accessories on it at all was about 10k but I never asked how much labor was involved... I would guess maybe 18-20 hours at about 160$ an hour.

 

[cgm]

Just because people are sheep does not negate the law, nor condone illegal activity by others. If you or someone else is to timid or scared to cause a scene and or defend your own rights does not deny the right you threw away to others.

You can either allow it to happen and then whine online and spread falsehoods or you can rigorously defend you rights guaranteed under the warranty. Plenty of dealers out there, document the denial, find a new dealer and then sue the ever loving shit out of the offending dealer.

Just some advice to sheep from a sheepdog.

 

[Average Oregonian]

Magnusson Moss does not ensure your right to modify AND retain warranty coverage for the applicable part. If you tune the engine controller, and the engine suffers internal damage, all they have to prove is the existence of the tune. They do not have to provide coverage for something that was intentionally modified to operate outside of its delivered parameters. Will they sometimes? Sure. Do they have to? No.

And no, they will not deny your broken wiper motor for an unrelated modification, regardless of the existence of MMA.

John Deere is primarily being sued for right to repair and antitrust issues by gating the repair tools and software necessary for an independent to perform repairs.

 

[BryantM4]

Oh boy,

Your bearish attitude is laughable, you remind me of Dwight Schrute! I was cringing at first, now its entertaining, feel free to keep going!

I pulled this from Banks Website:

"Does the Derringer void my warranty?

The Derringer is an inline tuner. It does not alter the truck’s ECM in any way, unlike a flash tuner that permanently alters the truck’s ECM. Treat the Derringer as you would with altering the truck’s suspension. Most dealerships understand accessories like upgraded suspension systems is harmless, however, some dealers are not as forgiving. Always check with your service advisor prior to dropping off your truck. Are they ok with aftermarket accessories? When in doubt, simply remove the Derringer and engine harness. It takes less than 10 minutes. After removal its presence is undetectable.


Should I remove the Derringer and iDash before a dealer visit?

This depends on your relationship with your dealership and/or service writer. It’s good to know if they’re aftermarket accessory friendly. When in doubt, remove the Derringer module and engine harness. Coil up starter cable and zip-tie it out of sight. The iDash is a diagnostic device just like any mechanic’s diagnostic scan tool or code reader. It can remain in the vehicle."

In the real world, we have a lot of ways the MM can help, but a few important indisputable facts:
-MM act at its core was created to prevent dealers from locking you into OEM service an/or using OEM parts, breaking up that monopoly they had on consumers.
-If the aftermarket part was defective or installed improperly and that causes damage to a warranted part, warranty on parts impacted can be denied.
-If the aftermarket part changes the intended design or function, or causes/allows function outside of the intended range, your warranty claim could be denied for parts impacted by or related to the aftermarket part.

To the OP, be smart, hide or conceal what you can, avoiding the fight and getting what you want is the real win; facing the dealer head on in a lengthy legal battle, with the stress, anxiety and time lost... no one is the real winner there....

I planned on keeping spare tools for removing the derringer, incase it had to be towed from the road. I guess it just comes down to how my dealership will react. Heck, I’ve seen some dealerships installing the tuners, so you never know.

 

[redrider]

Just my 2c from the heart. Army MP, I sincerely hope the service dog helps and strongly suggest additional therapy with the appropriate medical professionals. I say this from the perspective of some-one who also served albeit from the mid 70's and 80s. Your avatar reveals that you are a young man. Leave the bitter, curmudgeonly stuff to the old pharts, like me. Peace Brother.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

Wrong.

Unless they can prove the tune caused the damage they are mandated to perform the warranty work. Just because you changed something motor does not mean it caused a glow plug to crack, an alternator to die or an oil pump to go out, turning off def or the dpf is not going to cause an oil pump to go out or the impeller on a water pump to break

100% a warranty can be denied for a tune that is a reflash of the ECM, they can't for lift kits or for changing for tire size and things like that, but a actual tuner the changes the way the ECM acts and how vehicle may perform is absolutely grounds for FCA to deny a claim if they find a trace of it. I know because I had it happen on my JKU, Lifetime power train was denied when my transmission crapped the bed at 59,000 miles. I had it tuned and a ECM reflash done with a superchips flashpaq. They hooked up the OBD2 found the trace of it and denied the claim.

I couldn't get a lawyer to touch the case, I tried and they said it was their right and there was no protection for it. I was newbie then but live and learn. I ended up paying out of pocket for a rebuilt transmission that Came with a 100,000 mile 3yr warranty from Jasper. That's facts and I don't think the laws are different in other states but for reference I'm in North Carolina. It also didn't leave a sour taste in my mouth for the dealership either because guess what they have right's the same as we do. The same laws that protect us are there to protect them as well.

Also for reference once a dealership denies a warranty claim your flagged and put in system for all dealerships to see and when they enter your Vin at another dealership they see the reason it was denied and then they will deny it as well. So you can't just remove it and take it to another dealership. Those are facts.

 

[WXman]

People throw the Magnusson-Moss Act around all the time but who actually has pockets deep enough to fight a multi-billion dollar corporation in court?

You should never mod a vehicle purposefully thinking that law will save you. When I mod my trucks I know going into it that there's risk. That one reason I keep my mods very mild. But, even some of the things I do to my trucks could potentially cause me issues depending on what fails on the truck.

The Banks tuner and the AFE tuner work similarly. They can be totally removed from the vehicle for a service visit. BUT....it's not something a guy would want to do on a regular basis. There's a good amount of work involved accessing those sensors, running wires through the firewall, removing tune display from the dash, etc. And, with these tunes you HAVE to remove them for service visits because there are visible and obvious signs of the tune right there in the cab of the truck. It's not like you can hide it when the display is right there mounted to the A-pillar. So, there are pros and cons to the Banks way of doing it and the GDE way of doing it.

 

[Deleted member 22728]

I recall the tuner/mods/warranty issue surfacing back in 04', when the 6.0 Stroke was blowing-up left and right. Came a point where it was 4-5 a month, with the first engines being shipped directly from Huntsville (not enough salvageable cores had worked their way thru the Motorcraft rebuilt steam yet). A couple of Rotunda-casts (early video streaming) later, techs and engineers were discussing the whole coach builder mods issue; seems as if a few ambulance builders were adding improper coolant after splicing into the chassis cooling system. At the time, everyone was trying to root-fail the engine, so ANYthing out of sorts was being considered. In the end, Ford usually warranted a catastrophic engine fail if a compelling case could be made in the customer's favor, usually as a satisfaction gesture. Fast-forward, when I add a supercharger, for example, to a new 3.6, it is completely understood by all that "if it explodes, take it to the component vendor, as Jeep will likely not cover it". It really does ride a grey area, on a case-by-case basis. Using the supercharger example: my 20' JLUR has the aluminum steering box, and I'm eligible for the iron box campaign. A Hamburger's was added at 141 miles, thus the alternator and hardware must be moved to get the box out. The dealer we buy $$$$$$ Jeeps from, likely would replace as long as I paid them to remove said components. Even in that case, I just bought the box and did it all myself, knowing well that once I charged the engine, I OWNED it and became the warranty provider.

 

[LostWoods]

They cannot deny warranty due solely to the presence of a tuner or a tune. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act prevents it.

The only time warranty work can be denied is if they can prove(burden on dealer) that the mod, tune, accessory caused the damage being repaired.

They cannot say a lift kit caused a wiper motor to go out

People love to say what MMW can do for them forgetting that the onus is on you and they have a whole lot more lawyers on staff who do absolutely nothing but concoct methods to deny warranty claims.

Tuners are one of the most destructive ways to void your warranty because you give them a lot of ammo to come at you with. This is a very interconnected CAN system so modifying the computer system in any way gives them that in to void literally everything electronic.

You can throw MMW in their face all you want but in reality, they will deny your claim and you won't find a lawyer to help you without a substantial retainer and fees. The financial risk to you to fix a rejected warranty claim is massive unless you have a very solid case against an army of lawyers that do nothing but pick those cases apart all day.

 

[Mjolnir]

Jesus @ArmyMP you really are not reading properly. No one here is SAYING that you can't fight FCA if your warranty is voided due to a mod. What they ARE saying is that it will be difficult, strenuous, COSTLY, and LONG. Very few people are willing to go through that when it will be cheaper to just pay the repair bill.

However if you have a SOLID stance (transmission failed yet no changes to drivetrain/suspension/ECM) then I am sure EVERYONE on this forum will be all for it.

Relax.

 

[willhonkforparts]

Granted, a tune won't cause your 8.4 radio warranty to be denied. Duh?

It shouldn't, but if you catch the wrong dealership, or service manager, they'll just tag your VIN as modified, and your entire warranty will be voided. It is extremely stupid and unfair, but it hasn't happened to hundreds if not thousands of people. And yeah, consumer protection acts are great, but how much time, money, energy and stress are you gonna expend getting the dealership to replace your head unit? Warranty is kinda of like insurance, it sounds like a great idea, meant to protect the consumer, but it's really about money. Auto manufacturers and insurance companies alike want to make as much as they can, while paying out as little as possible, so they will try to find any excuse they can not to spend.

 

[willhonkforparts]

People throw the Magnusson-Moss Act around all the time but who actually has pockets deep enough to fight a multi-billion dollar corporation in court?

You should never mod a vehicle purposefully thinking that law will save you. When I mod my trucks I know going into it that there's risk. That one reason I keep my mods very mild. But, even some of the things I do to my trucks could potentially cause me issues depending on what fails on the truck.

The Banks tuner and the AFE tuner work similarly. They can be totally removed from the vehicle for a service visit. BUT....it's not something a guy would want to do on a regular basis. There's a good amount of work involved accessing those sensors, running wires through the firewall, removing tune display from the dash, etc. And, with these tunes you HAVE to remove them for service visits because there are visible and obvious signs of the tune right there in the cab of the truck. It's not like you can hide it when the display is right there mounted to the A-pillar. So, there are pros and cons to the Banks way of doing it and the GDE way of doing it.

I knownyoubdid the GDE tune. One thing I've wondered about is the history stored within the ecm. When you remove the gde ecm and replace it with stock for a dealer service, does that ecm not have a block of time with no history? I can just see the tech pulling up AFR numbers, peak boost numbers or idling time etc. and going "where the hell did the last 6 months go?" Also, I assume that milage is stored in a bcm as opposed to the ecm?

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