We are Suckers

[Stan H]

This is the reality for 99% of them, even the never sellers on this forum who only drive with their doors off in low range over Engineers pass hauling the USS Nimitz.

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[WILDHOBO]

The $30k for the 5.7L swap sounds ridiculous... until you start pricing out a new truck plus all the mods. $30k for a brand new v8 and transmission installed with a 2yr 24 month warranty and my suspension is already set up how I want it? Once the 3.6 is worn out or eats a cam the hemi swap will be cheaper than a new truck with another v6 or turbo 4 or whatever they decide to power them with next.

Even cheaper with a donor engine out of a ram, and doing it diy. That’s my hope when my 3.6 dies someday. That and I hope it’s old enough that I don’t need to pass emissions anymore.

 

[Stan H]

Even cheaper with a donor engine out of a ram, and doing it diy. That’s my hope when my 3.6 dies someday. That and I hope it’s old enough that I don’t need to pass emissions anymore.

Yeah true

 

[Zachanadandy]

Even cheaper with a donor engine out of a ram, and doing it diy. That’s my hope when my 3.6 dies someday. That and I hope it’s old enough that I don’t need to pass emissions anymore.

Other advantage to the AZ property... no emissions or inspections of any kind.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Other advantage to the AZ property... no emissions or inspections of any kind.

same here - we used to have inspection laws, in the 1970s, and motorcycle helmet laws - those got ripped to shreds and repealed.
The inspection law also led to a lot of selling of stickers and pre-signed forms. Hand a business owner a few bucks, you just bought yourself a "my car passed inspection" kit. So it really did little good anyway.
\

Even cheaper with a donor engine out of a ram, and doing it diy. That’s my hope when my 3.6 dies someday. That and I hope it’s old enough that I don’t need to pass emissions anymore.

Bet there's a lot more to it than grabbing the engine and PCM - the way things are interconnected and must communicate. And there's a lot of stuff that has to be relocated under the hood.
I'm a DIY type of guy who rarely shies away from anything - I did things with my cars (and even the network at work) that people said were not possible.
But frankly, for the warranty and the amount of time and work that goes into this sort of thing - if I wanted it that badly, I'd pay and get full support and warranty.

Just speculation as I don't know every little thing they do - but I have a feeling they are earning that money.

 

[ChrisNLA]

Other advantage to the AZ property... no emissions or inspections of any kind.

They 'check' here, but it's easy enough to fool depending on what drivetrain you are using. They just plug in and make sure you don't have any active emissions codes. If you can make the engine light turn off - it's gonna pass. Like in my Camaro, I could use HP Tuners to 'deactivate' everything related to emissions (do not report error) and it would pass fine since there dumb scanner just goes 'yep computer says it is fine!'

Edit: My old '93 Chevy C1500 is LS Swapped, and I took it for a new inspection sticker and they plugged it in not thinking about it (I had the '96+ interior swapped in and the new OBD port in the correct spot) and it was passing the checks fine. Then she's like wait a minute, that's a '93. Why does it have an OBD2 port? They only check '96+ when OBD2 became standard.

Shhhh. Don't worry about it lady, put the sticker on lets go....

 

[ChrisNLA]

Bet there's a lot more to it than grabbing the engine and PCM - the way things are interconnected and must communicate. And there's a lot of stuff that has to be relocated under the hood.
I'm a DIY type of guy who rarely shies away from anything - I did things with my cars (and even the network at work) that people said were not possible.
But frankly, for the warranty and the amount of time and work that goes into this sort of thing - if I wanted it that badly, I'd pay and get full support and warranty.

Just speculation as I don't know every little thing they do - but I have a feeling they are earning that money.

I doubt its terribly complicated with a Hemi swap. It's the same 'ecosystem'. Especially if using a newer Hemi and the correct transmission. I have no doubt that some of the bigger companies try to gate keep the tech and parts to a degree though.

Heck, there is a swap company that does or used to sell swap kits to put LS swaps into JK's with no error lights and retained all functionality. They had developed their own bridge module that allowed the LS engine and transmission to communicate to the Jeep systems without elaborate swap harnesses and other goofy electronics. Even JK's were riddled to death with CAN modules and they figured it out.

In time, that may well exist for JL/JT if it doesn't already. Modern automotive tech guys are a wild bunch and find their way around anything, especially once this platform gets some age on it and a new generation comes out.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I doubt its terribly complicated with a Hemi swap. It's the same 'ecosystem'. Especially if using a newer Hemi and the correct transmission. I have no doubt that some of the bigger companies try to gate keep the tech and parts to a degree though.

Heck, there is a swap company that does or used to sell swap kits to put LS swaps into JK's with no error lights and retained all functionality. They had developed their own bridge module that allowed the LS engine and transmission to communicate to the Jeep systems without elaborate swap harnesses and other goofy electronics. Even JK's were riddled to death with CAN modules and they figured it out.

In time, that may well exist for JL/JT if it doesn't already. Modern automotive tech guys are a wild bunch and find their way around anything, especially once this platform gets some age on it and a new generation comes out.

Before Dakota customs went out of business I'm pretty sure their kits were $10k just for the wiring harness, pcm, and motor mounts. The DIY option would run you $20k+ with new parts. Sure you could buy some used high mileage ram for a few grand and spend all that time and energy swapping in worn out parts and dealing with junking the leftover truck, and then you're only $15k into a swap that might only last a few months and has no warranty.

 

[ChrisNLA]

Before Dakota customs went out of business I'm pretty sure their kits were $10k just for the wiring harness, pcm, and motor mounts. The DIY option would run you $20k+ with new parts. Sure you could buy some used high mileage ram for a few grand and spend all that time and energy swapping in worn out parts and dealing with junking the leftover truck, and then you're only $15k into a swap that might only last a few months and has no warranty.

I'm a lot closer to having $15K than $35K

To be fair - the folks considering doing this in their driveway could not care less about a warranty. That's why it's occurring in a driveway.

What would be junk in a Hemi anyway? The MDS? Delete that garbage while it's not in a truck and send it.

We make junkyard scrap runs every 6 months anyway. We usually take the junk hull of a vehicle, fill it full of a few months of garbage, and go get our beer money.

Edit: I bought a tractor to make bad choices (like pulling engines and transmission) easier, LOL.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I'm a lot closer to having $15K than $35K

To be fair - the folks considering doing this in their driveway could not care less about a warranty. That's why it's occurring in a driveway.

What would be junk in a Hemi anyway? The MDS? Delete that garbage while it's not in a truck and send it.

High mileage means worn. Everything from bearings to oil passages to the oil pump. If you're going to tear it down and rebuild it then add several grand more, but again what's your time worth? Are you rebuilding the high mileage trans too or betting on those clutches holding up? Rebuilding it all you're likely $20k into it anyway. Versus $32k out the door. Drop it off and pick it up. The hundred hours of labor saved damn near pays the difference.

 

[ChrisNLA]

High mileage means worn. Everything from bearings to oil passages to the oil pump. If you're going to tear it down and rebuild it then add several grand more, but again what's your time worth? Are you rebuilding the high mileage trans too or betting on those clutches holding up? Rebuilding it all you're likely $20k into it anyway. Versus $32k out the door. Drop it off and pick it up. The hundred hours of labor saved damn near pays the difference.

No rebuild, just an MDS delete - the most problematic part of the engine.

Again - this stuff doesn't bother DIY guys, and if I was considering such an ordeal, I am already driving / depending on another vehicle during the process.

If someone has $35K cash to pay AMW or want to finance $533+/mo for five years - go for it.

If someone doesn't and loves mechanical work or tinkering, has a good lead on a 5.7 and a transmission, and a DIY kit existed - I think it's a solid way to go, too. A motor with some miles on it and a challenging project doesn't bother me. I work 40 hours a week and don't have much else to do besides the honey do's - I'd have time

But I have no plans for either, so I'm just talking out my brown eye regardless.

 

[Zachanadandy]

No rebuild, just an MDS delete - the most problematic part of the engine.

Again - this stuff doesn't bother DIY guys, and if I was considering such an ordeal, I am already driving / depending on another vehicle during the process.

If someone has $35K cash to pay AMW or want to finance $533+/mo for five years - go for it.

If someone doesn't and loves mechanical work or tinkering, has a good lead on a 5.7 and a transmission, and a DIY kit existed - I think it's a solid way to go, too. A motor with some miles on it and a challenging project doesn't bother me. I work 40 hours a week and don't have much else to do besides the honey do's - I'd have time

But I have no plans for either, so I'm just talking out my brown eye regardless.

I have no plans for either any time soon, but can justify the cost when it comes time to replace the truck. At that point it's about half what a new one costs... with a v6.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm a lot closer to having $15K than $35K

To be fair - the folks considering doing this in their driveway could not care less about a warranty. That's why it's occurring in a driveway.

What would be junk in a Hemi anyway? The MDS? Delete that garbage while it's not in a truck and send it.

We make junkyard scrap runs every 6 months anyway. We usually take the junk hull of a vehicle, fill it full of a few months of garbage, and go get our beer money.

Edit: I bought a tractor to make bad choices (like pulling engines and transmission) easier, LOL.

I've grabbed engines for swaps before - RUNNING engines, sound good, run nice.

I had to do a full rebuild on it.

I also have a transmission I got as a spare to use in my car in case I get to where I can't push a clutch, or for some reason we decide to make it an automatic. "worked fine when pulled from the car"
Varnish, fluid was obviously never changed......................

You just don't know the history, the care it's had or hasn't had and with miles on it, you've already started with an engine that may be half done with instead of 0 miles.

My wife would say "if it's worth doing, do it once, do it right."
I've come home with bargain tools - and it was the last time as she sent me right back to the store to get the next level up.

It's not just the "kit", you get their expertise, knowledge in doing it right one time. They move the things around in the engine bay that must be relocated (the hemi isn't a drop-in without rearranging stuff in the engine bay)

Meh, odd for me to say and I've always done everything myself, but this is one case, even with all I know and can do - "let 'em, and if it breaks it's on them"

 

[ChrisNLA]

I've grabbed engines for swaps before - RUNNING engines, sound good, run nice.

I had to do a full rebuild on it.

I also have a transmission I got as a spare to use in my car in case I get to where I can't push a clutch, or for some reason we decide to make it an automatic. "worked fine when pulled from the car"
Varnish, fluid was obviously never changed......................

You just don't know the history, the care it's had or hasn't had and with miles on it, you've already started with an engine that may be half done with instead of 0 miles.

My wife would say "if it's worth doing, do it once, do it right."
I've come home with bargain tools - and it was the last time as she sent me right back to the store to get the next level up.

It's not just the "kit", you get their expertise, knowledge in doing it right one time. They move the things around in the engine bay that must be relocated (the hemi isn't a drop-in without rearranging stuff in the engine bay)

Meh, odd for me to say and I've always done everything myself, but this is one case, even with all I know and can do - "let 'em, and if it breaks it's on them"

I bought a 5.3L / 4L60E from a guy in 2011 or so. It was still bolted together, EVERYTHING still hanging off of it. Even still had 3 feet of factory fuel line hanging past the transmission.

Guy took it out of a storage room with a fork lift and plopped it on my trailer.

You know what I did before installing it in my LS swapped truck?

I rolled it on its side (still on my trailer) and put a Corvette servo in the transmission and a new transmission filter. I think I changed the water pump gaskets too? I shoved it in the truck without doing anything other than turning it over with a bar to make sure it wasn't locked up. I don't think I even lifted a valve cover. Didn't separate the transmission either. Took the core support out and shoved it in - one giant piece.

That motor and transmission still works fine to this day.

Anyway. I'm not saying your approach is wrong Bill - but my buddy and I as young bucks were car poor and we didn't have money to rebuild anything anyway, so to this day we still just buy shit and make it run. Find out the problems later. I can only afford to be a car guy because I go with the David Freiburger method. Don't get it right, just get it running.

Our track record is really good, too.

I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm not doing it to a three year old truck, so it's irrelevant.

Anything else though?

Send it.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I bought a 5.3L / 4L60E from a guy in 2011 or so. It was still bolted together, EVERYTHING still hanging off of it. Even still had 3 feet of factory fuel line hanging past the transmission.

Guy took it out of a storage room with a fork lift and plopped it on my trailer.

You know what I did before installing it in my LS swapped truck?

I rolled it on its side (still on my trailer) and put a Corvette servo in the transmission and a new transmission filter. I think I changed the water pump gaskets too? I shoved it in the truck without doing anything other than turning it over with a bar to make sure it wasn't locked up. I don't think I even lifted a valve cover. Didn't separate the transmission either. Took the core support out and shoved it in - one giant piece.

That motor and transmission still works fine to this day.

Anyway. I'm not saying your approach is wrong Bill - but my buddy and I as young bucks were car poor and we didn't have money to rebuild anything anyway, so to this day we still just buy shit and make it run. Find out the problems later. I can only afford to be a car guy because I go with the David Freiburger method. Don't get it right, just get it running.

Our track record is really good, too.

I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm not doing it to a three year old truck, so it's irrelevant.

Anything else though?

Send it.

I'm 100% with your train of thought building old clapped out junk. Like you said, not taking my 2 year old truck with a $65k msrp and junk yard swapping it. If I buy a clapped out old willys truck, I'm all for buying any running v8/ trans combo at the lowest price and cramming it in.

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