We are Suckers

[dajudge]

The last generation 4runner was only ~14 years old and still had a 5 speed auto until the new one so if Jeeps following Toyotas lead there will be no new engine option and no real improvements until 2033? Pass. I'll take an antiquated v8 over toyotas hybrid/4cyl garbage any day. Perspective.

Not to mention that Hagerty describe the new 4cylinder hybrid this way:
" as you drive long the noise and vibration is so bad it feels like it is broken"

As to this thread. Why the hell do you buy something and then bitch that it isn't "modern"? It is what it is, if you want IFS there are plenty of options for that. I didn't buy mine because it's a Jeep, I bought it because it has:
1. Solid axles (I actually use it on the rocks)
2. The roof and doors come off
3. The truck part makes it dual purpose
4. It is normally aspirated

If I wanted IFS I would have bought something else.
If you don't like yours, trade it in on something else, stop bitching.

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[Jrgunn5150]

Yeah, Ford was just completely unable to sell Bronco's, no one wanted that woke IFS crap.

Toyota can't move Tacomas, 4runners, Landcruisers to save their lives, look at all the rebats, 10, 12k off MSRP!

*This post sent from the alternate reality where IFS actually decreases sales somewhere in the multiverse.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Yeah, Ford was just completely unable to sell Bronco's, no one wanted that woke IFS crap.

Toyota can't move Tacomas, 4runners, Landcruisers to save their lives, look at all the rebats, 10, 12k off MSRP!

*This post sent from the alternate reality where IFS actually decreases sales somewhere in the multiverse.

None of them have offered a solid axle in 40 years, so there's no point of reference. Grand Cherokee's have been available with IFS since 2005, Jeep already has those sales AND the solid axle buyers. The only thing going IFS does is eliminate some buyers. As you said, Becca doesn't care because she wants the unique vehicle and the top that comes off. She won't go buy another one because they added Honda civic front suspension. It's not a change that will add buyers period and it will cost some. Hopefully we never find out how many that would be.

 

[Zachanadandy]

They will still sell the same. Even if offroaders make up 20% of the market, 100% of those buyers aren't going to drop Jeep as an option just because it no longer had a solid front axle. Even with IFS the Jeep is going to be a very capable off road platform, with far more aftermarket off road support, and a cult following to boot. The only ones who would stop buying are the salty cranky stubborn "I hate change har har har" types, and no vehicle manufacturer is concerned about 10% of the 10% of the 10%.

The only reason we still have solid axle fronts is because its Jeep and that's been one of "the things" about the Wrangler. As soon as it becomes more beneficial from a manufacturing and financial or sales standpoint to switch to IFS they'll probably do so, and after 5 years the off road crowd will stop complaining.

If it was more beneficial from a sales standpoint they would have already done it. The recon goes on sale soon and has the independent suspension you want and removable doors. There's nothing to be gained by putting car suspension on the JL/JT. I agree it won't deter 100% of the off road buyers, but how you get from there to .1% is a hell of a stretch (10% of 10% of 10%). In reality it would likely cost them half of the off road buyers. On the JL forum there have been many who jumped to the Bronco... and came back after realizing just how terrible the IFS is off road. The grenadier seems to be doing well (for a startup) and I'm guessing that's partially because of the solid axles. The idea that IFS is modernizing the Jeep is dumb. IFS is damn near as old as the Jeep brand and the competition made the switch 40+ years ago. Are we modernizing to the 80s? Every vehicle in the 80s was terrible and the JL/JT are infinitely more modern than anything offered then.

 

[Teqsand]

I mean, and they'd sell just fine.

Offroad competitions, real or imaginary, don't increase share prices. Sales do.

Because the majority are mall crawlers

 

[Teqsand]

I hate to break it to you, but those that buy Wranglers and Gladis for the solid axle and off road capability are a small portion of the market. If they had IFS they'd still sell just the same, because Becca doesn't care about solid axle to get to Starbucks and get ducked. She cares about being able to remove the top and it being a "different" vehicle.

Those are the people that don't need to be in forums or in groups because they're not using the vehicle for the vehicle.They're using as a status symbol.And I don't play that....

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Ooh the Council Of Gladiator users has spoken!

Now we've moved the goal post from won't sell no one wants to, almost everyone wants but they're wrong cuz Merrica

 

[Zachanadandy]

Agreed, I hate special editions that are nothing more than a graphics package.


The Kei truck owners would beg to differ with you. People are going nuts importing them as fast as they can.
Try telling the guys spending $30K (and more) on Square body single cab Chevys... $50K for a clean, lifted Crew Cab.....

While I agree nobody really wants manual windows, but the real problem is that they still insist on charging 50K+ prices when offering the stripped down versions. THAT'S why they don't sell.

I will say, I saw a restomodded Chevy that used window cranks connected to switches to operate the power windows. That was gorgeous

When hunting for my Gladi, I purposely looked for one with the 5 inch screen and Uconnect 4. I don't want it to have any connectivity with the outside world. Nothing connected to the net is loyal... (Excuse me while I get my tin foil hat adjusted)

The base JL could be had under $30k with those garbage options... and everyone still bought the $50k loaded up models. They don't sell because nobody wants the illusion of simple and that's all it is in any modern vehicle. The kei truck imports are between 1,800 and 7k per year, not insignificant but miniscule compared to JL/JT sales. Classic trucks are now the proof that people don't want modern ones? Supply is very limited and total numbers still on the road don't match the sales figured of any 1 truck from any manufacturer. Clearly people want new trucks... with modern features as that is what sells 99% of the time.

 

[RHINO79]

I'm a plain jane jeep fan!

 

[1Badazraptor]

Save, save, save, it's coming

 

[yoda13]

It’s a jeep. You make certain sacrifices to get the features that make it a Jeep. The price is a very valid complaint though.

 

[Alpine Warthog]

I think, to your point - a lot is cost.
Personally, I am not buying anything with roll up windows, manual mirrors, and without a touch screen radio that I have to drive daily to and from work, running my errands, etc. As it is I'm spoiled and get annoyed when I have to use the keys to start my '15 Camaro instead of pushing a button.
But, if you offered that at low enough price - perhaps you'd find some customers. Some folks are into that.
I do like a stripped down vehicle - but only as a toy or a run around. Me and the ole lady really want a no-frills mid 1970's Ford long bed to run around in when the kids aren't home and we are going on our Sunday jaunts around town. No witchcraft in it, no expensive parts, and maybe even keep it carbureted.

For the extremely short time that I sold cars (4 months JDR/Subaru dealer), once had a guy try to order a Subaru Crosstrek that was "BARE BONES". Sure, we've got some that have nothing....
Nope, he basically wanted a little SUV with the creature comforts of a UPS truck LOL It couldn't even be ordered.

I hate to break it to you, but those that buy Wranglers and Gladis for the solid axle and off road capability are a small portion of the market. If they had IFS they'd still sell just the same, because Becca doesn't care about solid axle to get to Starbucks and get ducked. She cares about being able to remove the top and it being a "different" vehicle.

I have to disagree here. Wranglers and the Jeep Brand itself, only survive because of the Wrangler fanbase.
Nobody buys a Jeep for It's cost, reliability or safety.

If Jeep loses the loyalists, the purists, the brand is done. There is nothing else that is keeping the Jeep relevant. Go IFS on the Wrangler and the loyalists and purists are suddenly looking at a vehicle that is completely the same as everything else, except they are ugly, boxy, less sexy than the Bronco and Scout and Toyotas.
Average people buy Jeeps because of the outdoor/adventure mystique. Average Jeep owners are not loyal, they don't even understand solid axles or the history, they only know Jeeps are "cool".
The solid axles, windshield, doors and roof, keep purists happy and enthusiastic about the brand. That enthusiasm keeps Jeep in the outdoor adventure conversation. If the enthusiasm dies so does the brand. Loyalists are what keep them cool. Bronco (and soon the Scout) eats into that. The removable roof, the doors... Bronco has that, Scouts might have it too. The Tacos and 4Runners are cool and "off-roady" and they don't have removable doors and roof. Toyota has the aftermarket support Jeep does and they are doing very well. Jeep already has the smallest portion of the market and Stelantis would take any excuse to divest it. We were (and still are) worried about the Gladiator getting killed off, the Grand Cherokee and Wagoneer would never be able to carry the brand. We saw GM kill Pontiac for less. Jeep is a niche brand with a niche model and their entire existence hang in the balance of it's popularity. No "real" Wranglers? No Jeep brand. Thankfully, I think Stelantis and Jeep leadership understand that. For now...

If it was more beneficial from a sales standpoint they would have already done it.

Jeep will forever be on the edge of extinction, it's niche. Jeep's blessing and it's curse is that it gets to not change doesn't have to keep on top of trends. The curse is that ANY change has to be very carefully thought out. It can't change TOO much. Its niche, It has to be or it's done. It can't go IFS if it does, it dies and the Jeep brand with it. Toyota and Ford and others have the luxury and freedom of being a cool alternative, but they have to be careful not to copy Wranglers too closely or they will look and feel like knock-offs (looking at you Mahindra)
The new Scout has a similar problem but it's only saving grace is that it's been gone so long. All electric is risky but they retain enough of the last version of the scout to take advantage of nostalgia.
100% Wrangler and it's solid axles are the foundation that keeps Jeep alive. They may shrink the production numbers over time but they will have to keep the solid axle and the Wrangler.

 

[Batterycap]

I'll take a proven, reliable and durable V8 - even the push rod variety, over a whizbang 3-cylinder triple turbo modern engine on every day that ends in a "Y". You say there are no 3-cylinder engines? Look around - there are and they are spreading. Don't ever discount the notion that one won't show up in a Jeep. Bad ideas tend to spread like mushrooms among the automotive engineering population.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I hate special editions that are nothing more than a graphics package.

But some aren't - the MOAB edition also gets you the full time transfer case. Most have mechanical or interior items beyond a name and graphics.

Look at the order guides and it's a different story than what some think.

 

[Mr Miami]

And I always struggle to understand why these are compared to any other mid sized truck ever. They’re wranglers and pickups combined. I bought it because I wanted a wrangler that could tow better than a wrangler. Other than that, it’s a toy that pretends to be a truck. I couldn’t be happier. It was never meant to be a serious truck. It’s meant to be a fun one.

I would love to copy and paste your comment and make it my own. I look at my JTR as my JK but with a longer bed that lets me carry more stuff and tows my toys. I couldn't be happier, just as you mentioned. I knew what I was purchasing and got exactly that. If I wanted a FordTaco or some other mid-sized pickup which have the decals screaming "Off Road" I would have bought one of them. I wanted a Jeep, plain and simple. I can easily take the doors off when I want and let the air in. I can buy stuff to make it my own, it's that simple.

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