What’s everyone using for oil?

[ShadowsPapa]

EVOO.

At the recommendation of Rachael Ray, I'm sure.
Do you use her EVOO dispenser, too?

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[IamWardicus]

Admittedly o just did mine at the valvoline drive thru. 0w20 full synthetic and I brought my own Fram synthetic filter cartridge. (.I don’t have an available space to do my own changes sadly)

 

[lobelsteve]

At the recommendation of Rachael Ray, I'm sure.
Do you use her EVOO dispenser, too?

Must have bought a bottle here on vacation and have been on a mailing list ever since....
Great stuff.
https://www.outrageousoliveoil.com/

 

[Riccochet]

Going to let the dealer do the first change at 2500 miles.

After that I'll changing my own oil at 7500 miles running RedLine 5w30. High moly to keep those parts lubricated during cold starts. Amsoil and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum are also great choices.

0W20 is bean counter oil. Only reason they went with 0w20 is to squeeze an extra fraction of a % of MPG out of the motor at the cost of durability and make it easier on the ESS system.

 

[WaterDR]

I wouldn’t use the Jeep wave if they paid me to do it, the one time I took my JK in for a leaking rear axle under warranty they put the lug nuts back on way too tight, took a huge breaker bar to get them off. Can’t trust them to do anything right, so many horror stories of over filled, under filled, full cap left off, drain bolt cross threaded, no thanks.

Always had great experience here

 

[WaterDR]

Chemical engineer here with way more understanding omotor oils then the average person.

I use the dealer and what never they use

why? Easy. Prices are good. Documented. And if I have warranty work, convenient.

the amount of engine failures out there these days where oil played a part is somewhere between slim and none unless abuse (never change the oil).

Use the correct grade. Use a quality brand. Change at recommended intervals. Unless you are performing an EOA you really will never know.

that’s my $.02

 

[Sduncan]

Costco 0-20w synthetic. $24 for 10 quarts. It’s rated same as all the other 0-20 oils.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

0W20 is bean counter oil. Only reason they went with 0w20 is to squeeze an extra fraction of a % of MPG out of the motor at the cost of durability and make it easier on the ESS system.

Yup - that 0w20 or 5w20 spec'd by some is not the engineer's choice.
5W30 is better.

Costco 0-20w synthetic. $24 for 10 quarts. It’s rated same as all the other 0-20 oils.

Rated the same? Oh, you mean the letters on it - that doesn't mean it's rated the same or the same quality, just meets certain minimums.

Since I'll be towing and working mine, it's going to get top stuff.

 

[Sduncan]

Yup - that 0w20 or 5w20 spec'd by some is not the engineer's choice.
5W30 is better.



Rated the same? Oh, you mean the letters on it - that doesn't mean it's rated the same or the same quality, just meets certain minimums.

Since I'll be towing and working mine, it's going to get top stuff.

Fine by me.., but do you really think Costco makes synthetic oil?? It’s coming out of the same refineries that major brands do.. in fact I just looked at my second container.. manufactured by Warren Industries.. they make oils for lots of major corporations...

And bet your whatever... royal purple, Mobil 1, Valvoline, etc, don’t do anything special than to meet the same certain minimums that are required by the ASE and similar. They aren’t jumping thru hoops and adding pixie dust to make their particular oils better than anybody else.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Fine by me.., but do you really think Costco makes synthetic oil?? It’s coming out of the same refineries that major brands do.. in fact I just looked at my second container.. manufactured by Warren Industries.. they make oils for lots of major corporations...

And bet your whatever... royal purple, Mobil 1, Valvoline, etc, don’t do anything special than to meet the same certain minimums that are required by the ASE and similar. They aren’t jumping thru hoops and adding pixie dust to make their particular oils better than anybody else.

Wrong. They do.

No one is saying "Cosco oil is junk" or anything like that, just that if one were to truly compare, there's a reason for price differences, and likely some of those reasons are the chemistry in the additives. It may be great for you, but for a guy really stressing things, it may not be that great.

If you'd studied oil like I have - being in the automotive industry for decades, you'd see a whole lot of differences. It's the additive packages that are well researched that do the work. Not the base oil.
Oil is not oil is not oil.
And generally speaking, you can't add things to the oil later - "in most cases" additives added later actually take away. They need to be blended with the oil during manufacturing processes.

Among differences - some of the better oils have a higher heat threshold - in other words, they will run in higher temperatures before starting to break down. That's really important in hot climates or where the engine is under load as in towing, mountain driving, etc.
Other differences are protection under pressure - the ability to resist stress as one engineer measures in PSI.
Here's one quote on it -
For example, if oil “A” has a 110,000 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength” in this test, and oil “B” has only a 65,000 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength” in this test, it’s not hard to understand the fact that oil “A” with its WHOPPING 70% HIGHER CAPABILITY, will provide a MUCH HIGHER level of reserve wear protection in a running engine as well.

The additives must resist the heat, deal with acids and many other things. It's one thing to meet minimum standards, your letters on the top of the can - and it's a given you need to match those certifications - but to have longer life and be able to handle heat and stresses better, you need to exceed those standards.

No pixie dust - CHEMISTRY and yes, absolutely they do use different additive packages.

I've seen a many things in my decades as a mechanic, engine builder, and classic car restorer/enthusiast, and differences in oils is among them.
When you tear down 100,000 mile engines and see the differences even though the owners each had their oil changed like they were supposed to - you had to wonder - ok, what was going on? What was different?

Here's an example of an oil from Warren - and the psi is not where I'd want to be running, the ranking is low (it meets your letter standards)-

162. 5W30 amazonbasics motor oil, synthetic, API SN Plus, GM dexos 1-Gen 2 = 76,237 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil was tested Spring 2019.
The bottle says this oil is manufactured by Warren Distribution, Inc.
----------------------------------------

I've used some of these top oils - and others - over the years.
Look at the PSI ratings compared to the other - >

2. 0W20 Amsoil Signature Series, synthetic = 134,840 psi

3. 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, synthetic = 134,352 psi

4. 5W30 Renewable Lubricants Super High Performance Passenger Vehicle Bio-SynXtra motor oil = 130,436 psi

6. 0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, synthetic = 127,221 psi

7. 5W30 Renewable Lubricants HD Super High Performance Bio-SynXtra motor oil = 125,250 psi

8. 0W20 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN, synthetic (originally gold, now green bottle) = 124,393 psi

9. 5W30 Valvoline Full Synthetic High Mileage with MaxLife Technology, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved (silver bottle) = 123,470 psi

21. 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved, synthetic (originally gold, now green bottle) = 113,377 psi

 

[Riccochet]

Warren manufactures oil for Costco, Amazon, Kirkland/BJ's, Walmart/Sams Club. Pretty much anyone that wants to rubber stamp their name on a bottle. There's nothing special about these oils. They all have very slightly different additive packages that barely meet the MINIMUM spec to be certified. They're all group 3 base oils. Nothing special. They're still conventional oils, only they've been hydrocracked so much that they're allowed to be marketed as full synthetic. Let that sink in. They are not synthetic oils, but are allowed to be marketed as such. In terms of additives they're 1 step below Mobil1, Valvoline, Castrol, even Royal Purple (since they changed formula back in 2010 I believe).

Those oils aren't bad. Nothing special about them either.

Then you get in to the group 4 and 5 oils. PAO esters and natural gas extractions. These are fully synthesized base oils. AMSoil, RedLine, Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra Platinum. These base oils cost more to produce than the finished product from Warren. They also have higher grade additive packages. Higher levels of moly, ZDDP, phosphorus. Shear strengths are considerably higher. These oils are going to protect your engine better under extreme operating conditions. Towing, hauling, high heat low speed engine lugging and cold starts.

You get what you pay for.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Warren manufactures oil for Costco, Amazon, Kirkland/BJ's, Walmart/Sams Club. Pretty much anyone that wants to rubber stamp their name on a bottle. There's nothing special about these oils. They all have very slightly different additive packages that barely meet the MINIMUM spec to be certified. They're all group 3 base oils. Nothing special. They're still conventional oils, only they've been hydrocracked so much that they're allowed to be marketed as full synthetic. Let that sink in. They are not synthetic oils, but are allowed to be marketed as such. In terms of additives they're 1 step below Mobil1, Valvoline, Castrol, even Royal Purple (since they changed formula back in 2010 I believe).

Those oils aren't bad. Nothing special about them either.

Then you get in to the group 4 and 5 oils. PAO esters and natural gas extractions. These are fully synthesized base oils. AMSoil, RedLine, Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra Platinum. These base oils cost more to produce than the finished product from Warren. They also have higher grade additive packages. Higher levels of moly, ZDDP, phosphorus. Shear strengths are considerably higher. These oils are going to protect your engine better under extreme operating conditions. Towing, hauling, high heat low speed engine lugging and cold starts.

You get what you pay for.

You sound as if you have studied even more than me - by a fair percentage! Or are a chemist or work in a refinery, etc. Thanks for the info.

I wanted to add I am not suggesting Walmart or Cosco or Amazon oils are crap - they may and obviously do work for a lot of folks. But I'd suggest only for normal driving, long drives where the engine gets good and warmed up and then run for another 20-30 minutes to reduce moistures in the crankcase. They won't deal with the acids and stresses like other oils do.
This means my wife could use it ok, me, not so much. I am not easy on things.

I had an interesting experience with my 73 - I had a situation where my dual quad air cleaners were subjected to a torrential Iowa rain. Water in engine. I pulled all the spark plugs, drained the crankcase, pulled the filter and decided it a great time to change to the Mobil 1 filter (after talking to a guy in the place they are made - along with other brands LOL) and change to the oil I wanted to try.

When all was said and done, I had to totally readjust my carburetors. Not a ton of fun with dual quads and 1:1 linkage. About like adjusting a motorcycle setup.
Anyway, the darned thing decided with the new oil to idle almost 100 rpm higher than before.

I ran into similar with my 70 - I switched oils shortly before selling it and noted that it, too, idled faster. Not nearly as much as my 73, but then I had always used a good oil formulated for high-performance flat-tappet engines with bigger cams.

I have to stick to top oil in my Eagle because that 4.0 I built has .023 shaved off the head and a cam that has radical ramps (as rad as I could go on the stock MAP and PCM)
It sounds like a truck engine. It takes a good oil capable of handling those cam ramps as they tend to slam the valves open and then let them drop. It's how they can move more air with less lift.
When I got the donor Jeep with the 4.0 it had 100,000 miles - I expected to be able to simply move the engine over - until I saw the insides of that engine. I have never seen a 4.0 or any AMC 6 worn like this one was. The cam distributor drive gear was toast, the distributor driven gear was toast. It was a total mess. I had to go about .020 under on the rods and mains. Yet the cylinder walls were not bad - not much ridge at all, valve guides had some wear, not horrible. This told me the oil didn't handle load really well. (and perhaps they didn't change it too often?)

 

[Riccochet]

You sound as if you have studied even more than me - by a fair percentage! Or are a chemist or work in a refinery, etc. Thanks for the info.

I wanted to add I am not suggesting Walmart or Cosco or Amazon oils are crap - they may and obviously do work for a lot of folks. But I'd suggest only for normal driving, long drives where the engine gets good and warmed up and then run for another 20-30 minutes to reduce moistures in the crankcase. They won't deal with the acids and stresses like other oils do.
This means my wife could use it ok, me, not so much. I am not easy on things.

I had an interesting experience with my 73 - I had a situation where my dual quad air cleaners were subjected to a torrential Iowa rain. Water in engine. I pulled all the spark plugs, drained the crankcase, pulled the filter and decided it a great time to change to the Mobil 1 filter (after talking to a guy in the place they are made - along with other brands LOL) and change to the oil I wanted to try.

When all was said and done, I had to totally readjust my carburetors. Not a ton of fun with dual quads and 1:1 linkage. About like adjusting a motorcycle setup.
Anyway, the darned thing decided with the new oil to idle almost 100 rpm higher than before.

I ran into similar with my 70 - I switched oils shortly before selling it and noted that it, too, idled faster. Not nearly as much as my 73, but then I had always used a good oil formulated for high-performance flat-tappet engines with bigger cams.

I have to stick to top oil in my Eagle because that 4.0 I built has .023 shaved off the head and a cam that has radical ramps (as rad as I could go on the stock MAP and PCM)
It sounds like a truck engine. It takes a good oil capable of handling those cam ramps as they tend to slam the valves open and then let them drop. It's how they can move more air with less lift.
When I got the donor Jeep with the 4.0 it had 100,000 miles - I expected to be able to simply move the engine over - until I saw the insides of that engine. I have never seen a 4.0 or any AMC 6 worn like this one was. The cam distributor drive gear was toast, the distributor driven gear was toast. It was a total mess. I had to go about .020 under on the rods and mains. Yet the cylinder walls were not bad - not much ridge at all, valve guides had some wear, not horrible. This told me the oil didn't handle load really well. (and perhaps they didn't change it too often?)

I'm no chemist or work in the oil industry. Just a nerd that keeps vehicles for a long time and want the best protection available. Oils with high moly content that coat metals to prevent cold start wear. Oils with high shear strength to protect metals when under load. My trucks spend 75% of their time towing. My Wrangler spent a lot of time on trails.

For your average driver that might tow a small utility trailer to the dump a couple times a year, or trades their vehicles in every 3-5 years. Ehhh...they can get by with whatever oil.

 

[JeepFox]

Currently use RP 5w30 in my JK. Any consensus on using 5w30 in my JT once I get it? Or something other than RP?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Currently use RP 5w30 in my JK. Any consensus on using 5w30 in my JT once I get it? Or something other than RP?

5w30 is better than the recommended 'viscosity", IMO, and it's the opinion of more than one engineer.
I think Royal Purple is a fairly good oil. Better than some, not as good perhaps as some others, but good enough that unless you race or really pull that thing hard it's likely fine.

I'll either keep using Mobil 1, or Renewable Lubricants oil like I use in my cars, or Amsoil. For now I'll keep taking it to the dealer for free oil, but once that's up, I'll use one of the above as I've used those in other things and had very good luck.
If you have had good luck with the RP oil - why not? I'll put it this way - never heard any complaints. I know some car people with performance engines that use it.

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