What should I tell the dealership to get second steering box TSB fix?

[Davesnothereman]

I've read a bunch of people saying the Fox Steering stabilizer makes a big difference

Hope it makes a difference because my steering is pretty bad… the tires move a little when my hands are at 7 and 1. The owner said my steering was slightly worse than a gladiator that was on the lot that he tried…. A brand new 2021 mind you (no TSB). I feel like snapping the steering column off at this point.

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[Elff]

Holy crap. That almost a quarter turn.

IMHO, you need at least a new steering box, but might also have other issues.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Hope it makes a difference because my steering is pretty bad… the tires move a little when my hands are at 7 and 1. The owner said my steering was slightly worse than a gladiator that was on the lot that he tried…. A brand new 2021 mind you (no TSB). I feel like snapping the steering column off at this point.

Here's the thing - if you have to move the steering wheel 10 degrees (just a number for kicks) to get the tires to move, a steering dampener can't change that. It's still going to take 10 degrees it will simply make you feel good about it because there will be resistance even if the wheels haven't started to turn.
A steering dampener can't take play out of steering. I can't see why people think that sideways shock can remove play from anything. It simply makes it harder for you to make things move, or for things to move on their own.

If you have a piece of take at the top of the steering wheel, and that tape moves 2" to the right before the tires respond - then it will take 2" for the tires to respond no matter what you bolt to that linkage as far as steering dampener.

My truck is not tiring driving on the highway, I can drive it for hours - and have. It is not tiring when towing, it's not tiring at high speeds. My wife would complain if there were any issues steering this truck, she's used to her Grand Cherokee with rack and pinion.

 

[Davesnothereman]

Here's the thing - if you have to move the steering wheel 10 degrees (just a number for kicks) to get the tires to move, a steering dampener can't change that. It's still going to take 10 degrees it will simply make you feel good about it because there will be resistance even if the wheels haven't started to turn.
A steering dampener can't take play out of steering. I can't see why people think that sideways shock can remove play from anything. It simply makes it harder for you to make things move, or for things to move on their own.

If you have a piece of take at the top of the steering wheel, and that tape moves 2" to the right before the tires respond - then it will take 2" for the tires to respond no matter what you bolt to that linkage as far as steering dampener.

My truck is not tiring driving on the highway, I can drive it for hours - and have. It is not tiring when towing, it's not tiring at high speeds. My wife would complain if there were any issues steering this truck, she's used to her Grand Cherokee with rack and pinion.

The steering damper is for the death wobble. I’m basically SOL for the steering as of now.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The steering damper is for the death wobble. I’m basically SOL for the steering as of now.

No it's not even for that. It will not fix that.

From experts -

A steering damper is not a fix, it's a band-aid used to mask issues with either worn components or poor design. Dampers did not start appearing on stock vehicles until the late 70s, mostly associated with the trend to larger (wider thus heavier) tires on older designs.

On a properly designed and well maintained system, a damper's purpose is to mitigate the effects of bump steer and the sudden encounter of unexpected objects, such as hitting a rock in a trail at 50 miles per hour. On an improperly designed and/or poorly maintained system, a damper is used as a crutch to mask issues with suspension and tire errors.

Bump steer, not death wobble. And yet people persist in believing it "fixes" anything. All they are doing is masking their inability to fix it right, or to cover their mistakes made when swapping parts without consideration to what they were changing (design, angles, etc.)

 

[Elff]

I removed the steering damper on my TJ because I have it dialed in.
I can drive one handed with zero issues.

 

[sharpsicle]

It really sounds like something else is going on here. Some other part of the steering system might need adjustment or replacing if it's truly that bad. The steering box might be doing perfectly fine, and moving what it should, but if there's other play in the system then it's going to look and feel like this. Until that is dealt with you might keep blaming the steering box for something that isn't its fault.

And to others points above, yes the steering damper is exactly that: a damper. It's not an adjuster or a play-taker-upper. It's a false sense of solution when you put one on with higher resistance.

 

[Davesnothereman]

No it's not even for that. It will not fix that.

From experts -

A steering damper is not a fix, it's a band-aid used to mask issues with either worn components or poor design. Dampers did not start appearing on stock vehicles until the late 70s, mostly associated with the trend to larger (wider thus heavier) tires on older designs.

On a properly designed and well maintained system, a damper's purpose is to mitigate the effects of bump steer and the sudden encounter of unexpected objects, such as hitting a rock in a trail at 50 miles per hour. On an improperly designed and/or poorly maintained system, a damper is used as a crutch to mask issues with suspension and tire errors.

Bump steer, not death wobble. And yet people persist in believing it "fixes" anything. All they are doing is masking their inability to fix it right, or to cover their mistakes made when swapping parts without consideration to what they were changing (design, angles, etc.)

Well it doesn’t really matter, does it? Since the dealership is the one handling it. I can’t go in there and tell them what to do. As far as the damper, I’m just repeating what they’re telling me. I’ve never had a steering damper on any of my other Jeeps. In all honesty, I’ll probably have to go to a third dealership since they just can’t get it fixed.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well it doesn’t really matter, does it? Since the dealership is the one handling it. I can’t go in there and tell them what to do. As far as the damper, I’m just repeating what they’re telling me. I’ve never had a steering damper on any of my other Jeeps. In all honesty, I’ll probably have to go to a third dealership since they just can’t get it fixed.

Really sad that so many of today's "techs" (and I use that word loosely) aren't all that well educated and aren't troubleshooters before they start their education. If you aren't a troubleshooter by nature, all you are is a parts-swapper or follower of computer print-outs. You have to first know exactly how things work and why before you can make them work again if they fail.
I'd bet that at least 1/4 of those out there would have dropped out of the college courses I took. We started out with 30 and graduated 18 in the end. (some of those barely).

 

[Davesnothereman]

Really sad that so many of today's "techs" (and I use that word loosely) aren't all that well educated and aren't troubleshooters before they start their education. If you aren't a troubleshooter by nature, all you are is a parts-swapper or follower of computer print-outs. You have to first know exactly how things work and why before you can make them work again if they fail.
I'd bet that at least 1/4 of those out there would have dropped out of the college courses I took. We started out with 30 and graduated 18 in the end. (some of those barely).

I was worried when he didn’t know what a “death wobble” was…

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I was worried when he didn’t know what a “death wobble” was…

Seriously?
I had that on a Ford pickup, it happens on other vehicles with a solid front axle besides Jeep.

 

[Toyfrog]

Ok, I have a 2021 Mojave and it’s stock except for wheels and tires, no suspension upgrades. I noticed yesterday after starting my truck that you could hear the fluid from the steering bypassing without me even turning the wheel. So when I got home and parked, I had the truck in park with the wheels straight. I started to slowly turn the wheel to the left. I got over half a turn before the tires started to move any. I have taken it in because of the steering and they just said it a Jeep thing. Mine being a 2021 with the “new” steering box is not affected by the TSB. Is anyone else having issues with the steering on a 2021? Thanks for the help.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That "it's a Jeep thing" is as stupid as "thinking outside the box" bunk.
I can stand by my Jeep, running or not running, and when I move the steering wheel the wheels move just like any of my other vehicles - except of course my wife's Jeep with rack and pinion steering - move the steering wheel in that a fraction of an inch and you have left the road - it's stupid tight and fast.
Granted on some surfaces there are forces acting against the wheels turning when you turn the wheel, but on my garage floor (which is slicker than puppy poop when wet) those wheels respond pretty quickly when I turn the steering wheel.
I'd say if your truck is like you say, Jeep still hasn't totally fixed steering response on these - at least for 2021 model year.

 

[Elff]

So I drove out to pick up my 18' trailer today. It was the first long trip since I dropped the tire pressure down to 35psi. I set the ACC to 80mph and drove it with one hand.

Once I got the trailer, I did the same thing on the way home and it felt great. Really stable.

Sorry Dave, you definitely have something off.

 

[Davesnothereman]

So I drove out to pick up my 18' trailer today. It was the first long trip since I dropped the tire pressure down to 35psi. I set the ACC to 80mph and drove it with one hand.

Once I got the trailer, I did the same thing on the way home and it felt great. Really stable.

Sorry Dave, you definitely have something off.

I figured out why I have the death wobble, I believe that the ball joints were not torqued down to spec and became loose. I noticed some noise last year but I figured it was gear delay while I was in four-wheel-drive. I’ve been going over in my head and I believe that the dead space in the steering wheel is because of the input shaft into the steering box not fitting perfectly. The question is how too small is the input shaft in relation to the steering box. How does that ~1.5” of steering wheel deadspot translate to the difference in steering column to steering box connection.

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