What should I tell the dealership to get second steering box TSB fix?

[Elff]

Shouldn't both of those be covered under warranty, or did you upgrade your ball joints?

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[Davesnothereman]

Shouldn't both of those be covered under warranty, or did you upgrade your ball joints?

Everything is covered under the warranty, just depends on if the mechanics are smart enough or get the okay from Chrysler to do what I ask lol

 

[Elff]

Hopefully you get a Mechanic
vs a
GuessAnic
Or
PartSwapAnic

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I figured out why I have the death wobble, I believe that the ball joints were not torqued down to spec and became loose. I noticed some noise last year but I figured it was gear delay while I was in four-wheel-drive. I’ve been going over in my head and I believe that the dead space in the steering wheel is because of the input shaft into the steering box not fitting perfectly. The question is how too small is the input shaft in relation to the steering box. How does that ~1.5” of steering wheel deadspot translate to the difference in steering column to steering box connection.

There's a TSB for the ball joints, it's a known thing.

As far as the "input shaft" in the steering gear..... HUH?? What's that mean?
There are bearings - there's no "not fitting perfectly". If the shaft was too small a seal would not hold and it would leak. Sorry, but if you've worked on any steering gear, you might see you can't put a shaft that's too small into it.
Don't know how you think the input shaft can be too small going into the steering gear.

 

[Davesnothereman]

There's a TSB for the ball joints, it's a known thing.

As far as the "input shaft" in the steering gear..... HUH?? What's that mean?
There are bearings - there's no "not fitting perfectly". If the shaft was too small a seal would not hold and it would leak. Sorry, but if you've worked on any steering gear, you might see you can't put a shaft that's too small into it.
Don't know how you think the input shaft can be too small going into the steering gear.

The steering box has a square male connector to the steering column.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The steering box has a square male connector to the steering column.

I know there is - there's a coupling between the steering column shaft and the input shaft on the steering gear. The input shaft is square with a notch for the bolt that wedges and clamps that connector in place.

But what does that have to do with a shaft being too small going into the steering gear?
I know they always have a coupling there. There have been a couple of cases where a steering gear got replaced and that bolt didn't get tightened like it should be possibly leaving that joint loose, but there's no shaft that's too small going into the steering gear.

This is what the input shaft looks like. If that bolt is present and tight, the joint is tight. The coupling would not be loose or there would be a rattle or noise and you could feel it in the steering wheel or should be able to.

There's no way this would be so small in the coupler that you'd get over an inch of play in the steering wheel. I bet if you have someone wiggle the wheel back and forth with the engine off and you feel the shaft to the steering column and not feel that much play.
That thing would have to be waaay loose to give you 1.5" play.

 

[Davesnothereman]

I know there is - there's a coupling between the steering column shaft and the input shaft on the steering gear. The input shaft is square with a notch for the bolt that wedges and clamps that connector in place.

But what does that have to do with a shaft being too small going into the steering gear?
I know they always have a coupling there. There have been a couple of cases where a steering gear got replaced and that bolt didn't get tightened like it should be possibly leaving that joint loose, but there's no shaft that's too small going into the steering gear.

This is what the input shaft looks like. If that bolt is present and tight, the joint is tight. The coupling would not be loose or there would be a rattle or noise and you could feel it in the steering wheel or should be able to.

There's no way this would be so small in the coupler that you'd get over an inch of play in the steering wheel. I bet if you have someone wiggle the wheel back and forth with the engine off and you feel the shaft to the steering column and not feel that much play.
That thing would have to be waaay loose to give you 1.5" play.

What’s the diameter of that?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What’s the diameter of that?

Won't be a diameter on a square shaft......... I don't have one here to measure but the sleeve doesn't go onto it loosely.
If that was a loose fit, it would be felt, and it would be loose on every JT ever made. And - you could SEE it move within the coupler. The bolt also prevents any play (not that there would be any because of the fit)

 

[Davesnothereman]

Won't be a diameter on a square shaft......... I don't have one here to measure but the sleeve doesn't go onto it loosely.
If that was a loose fit, it would be felt, and it would be loose on every JT ever made. And - you could SEE it move within the coupler. The bolt also prevents any play (not that there would be any because of the fit)

Well I’m going to do some math and translate the dead spot to that part. Obviously no one knows what’s wrong, it could be that coupler that leads to the steering box. If it’s a faulty part, that doesn’t mean it’s going to be like that with every gladiator, that doesn’t make any sense… in theory, all gladiator steering boxes would be bad.

 

[Rusty PW]

I don't have a JT to look at. Can someone look under the dash to see if there is another steering joint on the steering shaft. There is one on the Power Wagons that get slop in it. And there is a fix for it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I don't have a JT to look at. Can someone look under the dash to see if there is another steering joint on the steering shaft. There is one on the Power Wagons that get slop in it. And there is a fix for it.

Outside the firewall if I am correct there's an intermediate shaft that has u-joints. This doesn't have the old style flex joints, which shade-tree mechanics called "rag joints". This would be an actual cross type u-joint on these, I believe.
It's pretty solid, there won't be play in these systems. If there's play, it's because the tech left a bolt loose or out, or it's in the steering gear, or they left the pitman nut loose or there's play elsewhere.
This isn't a matter of a shaft being too small in a coupling. The coupling clamps to the shaft.

I believe this is the intermediate shaft. Note the solid cross type u-joints, no old-fashioned flex joint.
You can see where it's supposed to collapse in a catastrophic accident. This is ahead of the firewall at the lower end of the main steering column and clamps to the input of the steering gear. It doesn't just slip on and sit there loosely. There's not a lot of play between this and the input on the steering gear. If it's loose, someone f'd up on the install. It would be akin to leaving the bolt out in the old-fashioned flex joint seen in the bottom pic...... but if that was loose and that clamp opened up you'd be in deep doo-doo. (that one is a flex joint I restored recently)

 

[Davesnothereman]

Outside the firewall if I am correct there's an intermediate shaft that has u-joints. This doesn't have the old style flex joints, which shade-tree mechanics called "rag joints". This would be an actual cross type u-joint on these, I believe.
It's pretty solid, there won't be play in these systems. If there's play, it's because the tech left a bolt loose or out, or it's in the steering gear, or they left the pitman nut loose or there's play elsewhere.
This isn't a matter of a shaft being too small in a coupling. The coupling clamps to the shaft.

I believe this is the intermediate shaft. Note the solid cross type u-joints, no old-fashioned flex joint.
You can see where it's supposed to collapse in a catastrophic accident. This is ahead of the firewall at the lower end of the main steering column and clamps to the input of the steering gear. It doesn't just slip on and sit there loosely. There's not a lot of play between this and the input on the steering gear. If it's loose, someone f'd up on the install. It would be akin to leaving the bolt out in the old-fashioned flex joint seen in the bottom pic...... but if that was loose and that clamp opened up you'd be in deep doo-doo. (that one is a flex joint I restored recently)

Like Elff said, I have a PartSwapAnic and a GuessAnic, so I have to figure out what’s actually wrong. The steering column that connects to the intermediate shaft via u-joint is solid. The spot that I think has the dead spot is the intermediate shaft connection to the male part on the steering box. If it’s not then I’m 4/4 for bad steering boxes. I see the steering column move back and forth in the steering box and the tires don’t move st all. I get 3/4 inches of dead spot when I turn the shell left and 3/4 inches when I turn right. It wouldn’t take a ton in the intermediate shaft

 

[Rusty PW]

Outside the firewall if I am correct there's an intermediate shaft that has u-joints. This doesn't have the old style flex joints, which shade-tree mechanics called "rag joints". This would be an actual cross type u-joint on these, I believe.
It's pretty solid, there won't be play in these systems. If there's play, it's because the tech left a bolt loose or out, or it's in the steering gear, or they left the pitman nut loose or there's play elsewhere.
This isn't a matter of a shaft being too small in a coupling. The coupling clamps to the shaft.

I believe this is the intermediate shaft. Note the solid cross type u-joints, no old-fashioned flex joint.
You can see where it's supposed to collapse in a catastrophic accident. This is ahead of the firewall at the lower end of the main steering column and clamps to the input of the steering gear. It doesn't just slip on and sit there loosely. There's not a lot of play between this and the input on the steering gear. If it's loose, someone f'd up on the install. It would be akin to leaving the bolt out in the old-fashioned flex joint seen in the bottom pic...... but if that was loose and that clamp opened up you'd be in deep doo-doo. (that one is a flex joint I restored recently)

Ok, it has the same type of joint as a Power Wagon. Same steering design. Small u- joint. This joint will get play in it over time. There is a bushing kit for it. Wonder if is the same size.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Ok, it has the same type of joint as a Power Wagon. Same steering design. Small u- joint. This joint will get play in it over time. There is a bushing kit for it. Wonder if is the same size.

Takes a lot of time - or abuse, to wear these. They aren't worn out already on these.
I have one out of a Jeep (earlier version) that's got over 100,000 miles on it and it's still snug, just fine.
You are talking wear in the joint, not defect, not something that will happen in 50,000 miles unless you really hammer on it.
I've had a number of vehicles with these - this ain't the trouble on these new vehicles with low miles.

Again, VERY simple check for play in that intermediate shaft - reach into that area and grab the damned thing and wiggle and shake it. It's not rocket science. You should be able to grab that shaft and try to turn it back and forth and find no play in that shaft or those joints. (always with engine OFF)
But no one seems to want to do that - likely because I'd bet that isn't the issue on a new truck.
And if one is damaged or toasted in some way, they aren't expensive to buy new.

People are talking about "play" in new vehicles, or nearly new vehicles. It's not a worn joint, it's going to be the steering gear or some slop or play elsewhere down the line.
If it's up top - you can spend less than 5 minutes and find that out.
I've talked other people through checking for play on the input side months ago when people were first complaining about these. One person can do it, or two - one inside, the other outside. Wiggle the steering wheel and watch and listen (ENGINE OFF EVERY TIME)

 

[Rusty PW]

Takes a lot of time - or abuse, to wear these. They aren't worn out already on these.
I have one out of a Jeep (earlier version) that's got over 100,000 miles on it and it's still snug, just fine.
You are talking wear in the joint, not defect, not something that will happen in 50,000 miles unless you really hammer on it.
I've had a number of vehicles with these - this ain't the trouble on these new vehicles with low miles.

Again, VERY simple check for play in that intermediate shaft - reach into that area and grab the damned thing and wiggle and shake it. It's not rocket science. You should be able to grab that shaft and try to turn it back and forth and find no play in that shaft or those joints. (always with engine OFF)
But no one seems to want to do that - likely because I'd bet that isn't the issue on a new truck.
And if one is damaged or toasted in some way, they aren't expensive to buy new.

People are talking about "play" in new vehicles, or nearly new vehicles. It's not a worn joint, it's going to be the steering gear or some slop or play elsewhere down the line.
If it's up top - you can spend less than 5 minutes and find that out.
I've talked other people through checking for play on the input side months ago when people were first complaining about these. One person can do it, or two - one inside, the other outside. Wiggle the steering wheel and watch and listen (ENGINE OFF EVERY TIME)

Guys on the PW forum have been bitchin' about that joint at 15,000 miles. I replaced my steering shaft with a Borgenson shaft.

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