Wheel & Tire Weight vs Towing Capacity

[SightsOfIron]

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[Gezer]

Hey. would like to ask Hepcat what you are towing with your Overland. Curious what trailer you pull. Thanks

 

[audibahn]

So we’ve concluded that the max weight I can tow in its current state is 5,910lbs. Got it.

Now, how about tongue weight? Tongue weight seems to contribute to payload, right? With the max payload being 1,245lbs and the max tongue weight 700lbs, it seems like a bit of a sliding scale. Meaning that for every pound over 545 pounds of payload, that’s one reduced pound of max tongue weight. Right?

if that’s true, and the actual payload of the modifications (not including wheels and tires) + people + gas + stuff is 815lbs (for example), then the max tongue weight is now 430lbs… right?

Is the 1,245lbs payload you mentioned from the yellow door jamb sticker? Wheels and tires count against your payload also.

Per your CAT scale results, you have no payload left for tongue weight: 6250 GVWR - 6540 actual weight = -290 over
You could tow 12,450 GCWR - 6540 actual weight = 5910 lbs if you find a way to shed weight and free up payload for your tongue weight.

 

[MattKay]

Is the 1,245lbs payload you mentioned from the yellow door jamb sticker? Wheels and tires count against your payload also.

Per your CAT scale results, you have no payload left for tongue weight: 6250 GVWR - 6540 actual weight = -290 over
You could tow 12,450 GCWR - 6540 actual weight = 5910 lbs if you find a way to shed weight and free up payload for your tongue weight.

yes! 100% correct.

we need a pinned post explaining how to calculate towing capacity for a setup.
It’s soooo confusing. The way I think about it is there are various “fuses” that can break.
1. Overweight in the vehicle
2. Overweight on the hitch bc tongue weight too high or because of weight in vehicle effectively “reducing” how much weight can be put on hitch
3. Overweight in total combined setup of vehicle/trailer

#1 is easy to fail if you include mods (winches, etc) plus gear and people = no payload left.

#2 is even easier to fail if you don’t consider that when you are considering point 1. You have no payload left which means you have no weight “left” to put on the hitch.
Keep in mind a weight distribution hitch wdh weighs almost 100lbs and that’s part of hitch weight too, not just tongue weight of the trailer. Which if you are going heavy with a trailer then you’ll need a wdh to prevent sag as heavy trailer = heavy tongue. Also look at the spec. Similar weighted trailers have vastly different tongue weights.

#3 is easy to fail if you buy a trailer without any consideration for 1 and 2 beforehand.

also I see the OPs point about what tongue weight is available. I would interpret your question more like “what added weight can I put in the jeep or on the hitch and not effect the vehicle”. I would agree you could probably hold x amount of hitch weight, structurally speaking. Especially if all your mod weight is below frame (wheels/tires/axles etc.) however the Gross Vehicle Weight Limit is in place to keep you underweight of what the vehicle can handle while driving. Not a static “what can the vehicle hold sitting in a parking lot.”
You’re already at max vehicle weight which is at the safety factor limit for driving. I’d recommend shedding weight and running the numbers to see what you would get.
Also this a great time to call out NOT getting heavy wheels and tires combos. You can get size and look without killing weight.
I think for last thoughts: imagine your jeep stock. Imagine going to a quarry and saying “load it with gravel”. Wouldn’t you want to know if the weight of all that gravel is “safe” to drive with? Kinda same thing here. To a degree.
Ps I’m passionate about tow limits. I think too many people have been burned by how confusing it all is.

And if you haven’t towed before crosswinds are a dangerous and scary thing. I’ve been pushed off the highway in an max tow suburban…Again part of why all these numbers matter.
Good luck! Hopefully you can find a solution that works and keeps you safe

 

[WILDHOBO]

Yes..
But people leave out the other things that these had to pass testing for - acceleration, braking, steering, and more.
So lifts impact steering and even braking.
Heavier, larger tires impact braking and steering.
You can go by numbers - math, to get numbers for an unlifted truck on stock tires, but then when you swap tires and lift it, you reduce those numbers even more - in ways you can't use a calculator for.

This has been covered to death in dozens of threads here - people make tons of mods, then think about towing and payload later. They should consider all uses before modifications.
It may not be illegal, but it can wind you up in a real tangled up mess should there be an accident. Someone is going to just look at a highly modified lifted truck with huge tires and see dollar signs in event of an accident.

Bigger tires cut braking considerably and change how the truck will handle if you have to avoid something in the road or someone cuts you off, or you get into sway.
The electronic sway control won't be able to work as well in a lifted truck with huge tires, so don't count on it to be as much help as stock.



^^^^
This - for raw numbers.
Then deduct some more for the lift and big/heavy tires because of reduced braking and steering abilities, and a higher center of gravity. I need to find the video from a 4x4 shop that explains this perfectly - and how and why lifts matter.

Basically, people build these and they end up being a compromise for something - might be great for the rocks and ravines, but the ability to tow and handling on the road are cut way down. These are already a compromise vehicle from the factory. Then we change them and swing that pendulum in one direction or another.

Factory payload is based on GVWR minus curb weight.
Curb weight is the weight of the vehicle with all fluids, stock, from the factory, a full tank of gas, all coolant and oil levels where they should be. That's curb weight - it does include a full tank of fuel.

The problem with how this has been covered in other threads, is that many seem to forget to take into consideration mods that make the vehicle handle more weight. Yes, mine is lifted on larger tires, and is heavier than it was stock. But then I upgraded to stronger springs, stronger control arms, stronger axles, stronger shocks, larger brakes, better and stronger steering, etc. All of this was done to compensate appropriately for the modifications done. If I’d just lifted and added weight without improving the suspension by 500 percent over rubicon stock, I’d agree. But many of us have made these stronger and more capable than they were from the factory at normal weights and heights. The door sticker numbers were based on factory suspension, brakes, steering, etc. From a common sense standpoint, I’ve thrown it out the window. It’s so far from applicable or accurate at this point that it’s comical. Many of the design decisions with my build were directly related to being able to tow as well, or better than I could stock, after it was lifted.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I need to find that video from the truck shop guy again............... he covers a lot of that. You can put heavier parts on, stiffer springs, all you want, but you still have a taller vehicle and there's no way in the world it can handle braking and steering like a stock vehicle can while towing.
If it was a matter of springs and heavier parts - then Jeep could increase the payload and towing numbers on these and blow the competition into the stratosphere.
You can't tow better. You still have the same engine and transmission. You still have the same heat rejection issues, and now you have added braking issues and handling/steering in an emergency.
I wonder if such a truck could pass those SAE challenges. Bet not.
It's not "how much can I carry" or "how much can I tow" it's - what happens ........ if.............

I really need to find that video!

 

[WILDHOBO]

with all this info, I wonder how capacity increasing mods work then? Cus we consider bigger tires a loss in capacity as well as lift. But what about 1 ton axles? do those add more cus they are rated for more? what about the 1 ton brakes that come with those axles? what about a Hemi swap? what about a HP750 swap? I feel like technically speaking one could do certain mods and engineer capacity up instead of down. I saw a Glady on insta yesterday, after some basic math you could easily tell it was well over its GVWR in mods and the trailer is was pulling. I went all through his content and this guy left no stone unturned to make his truck capable. reinforced and braced the frame, 1 tons, V8+HD tranny, Big brakes, etc. the whole 9 yards. And logically we would all agree that from a simple skid test by looking at tire marks and whatnot that a state trooper would have him by the balls. As there is no way that beast could stop in the distance its supposed or perform in any other measurable metric to stock that one might bring up. Except we'd all be wrong. running his max expedition load he actually had a shorter braking distance than a stock rubicon. videos and all to prove it. So then what? its over its reported sticker, but handles better in every metric than stock. Should he be punished for out engineering Jeep? How do we handle these things? AUS has engineering for modded vehicles where they retest your truck and resticker accordingly. I wish we had that here. Cus i'm willing to bet there a few Gladiators that actually gained mechanical capacity instead of lost it.

Finally. Thanks for wording it better than I did. Exactly this. I’ll happily put mine through whatever steering, braking, or handling tests someone would like me to do. It tows better and more safely than when it came off the lot.

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