When it's battery replacement time what are you choosing?

[Geoarch]

AGM batteries are not suited for use under the bonnet, too much heat! They will work, but you will get less life from them. Lead acid is the way to go under the bonnet.

Aren't the OEM batteries AGMs?

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[ShadowsPapa]

Aren't the OEM batteries AGMs?

Yes. Absolutely.

 

[WK2JT]

I used to buy optimas but their quality took a shit a few years ago. On my wrangler that mostly sits the cheapest walmart battery has pasted 3x longer than the optima ever did.

That’s what I just replaced mine with. Has the same 4 yr warranty as everyone else and was $65 cheaper.

 

[Mr._Bill]

I ended buying an ACDelco 94R AGM from Amazon. It was the lowest cost, with free prime shipping, and lists a three year warranty. I had some rewards points, so total cost was $151.
https://smile.amazon.com/ACDelco-94...mzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

I ordered the ESS battery from Auto Barn. They have a $10 off coupon on their site with free shipping, and no sales tax. Total cost was $110. They had one left in the warehouse when I ordered, but it was damaged, so I had to wait a few days for another one to come in. It's coming Fedex ground from New York and should be here tomorrow.
https://www.autobarn.net/deka-aux14-battery.html

 

[Planerdude]

Good luck. The pcm is programmed for the charging rates etc of agm. Lithium charges differently. May work but sure won't be ideal for health or life of batteries. Each type requires different charging scenarios.

I talked with the techs at Antigravity, they claim no charging issues at all, the built in BMS, battery management handles the circuitry issues. They are fully designed for automotive use. My kid has had one in his ML350 (the aux battery) for over a year now with no issues.

 

[WK2JT]

I talked with the techs at Antigravity, they claim no charging issues at all, the built in BMS, battery management handles the circuitry issues. They are fully designed for automotive use. My kid has had one in his ML350 (the aux battery) for over a year now with no issues.

Yeah, I’m sure they have the BMS sorted or they wouldn’t want to offer these for automotive use.

My issue was the economics once you go with the 40ah. It ended up being a little over 5 AGM batteries. Of course, that assumes prices don’t increase over the next 10 years for the AGM and there is hopefully no need to replace the AG.

Also, the cold here in CO. No bueno for lithium.

I wasn’t concerned with the 40ish lbs as the Jeep is already a pig. Lol.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I talked with the techs at Antigravity, they claim no charging issues at all, the built in BMS, battery management handles the circuitry issues. They are fully designed for automotive use. My kid has had one in his ML350 (the aux battery) for over a year now with no issues.

It had better have it's own management circuitry. The PCM will ramp voltage up to as high as 14.7 to 14.8. I've seen mine to that many times after sitting a day. The lithium battery hates high voltages - and needs to be limited to 14.4. The Jeep will crank out well over that as it's expecting certain chemistry and even the battery capacities are programmed into the PCM.

The lithium battery is also fully charged, 100% SoC, at ~13.3 volts while the AGM is 100% SoC at about 12.7 volts. So if the PCM is looking to maintain a full SoC at 12.7 volts, that means the typical lithium battery will be about 20% SoC.
The truck may never get a lithium battery to 100% SoC.
Not a problem with old-school systems with constant voltage regulation as those typically do a constant voltage charge at 13.8 to 14.2 volts. May not get to 100% but would get closer than a smart system would.

Also note there are several lithium battery chemistries for automotive batteries.
Make sure you have LiFE which is lithium iron phosphate (technically LiFePO4 but shortened to LiFe)

I'm guessing it's not just a battery you are buying but it's also equipped with a built-in DC-DC charging circuit.
I've got chargers with big warnings all over them to never charge a lithium battery unless it's LiFe and you use the LiFe setting, not to use the Stfd or AGM settings although the cycles for AGM and LiFe are similar, the LiFe can't tolerate the higher voltages the AGM will handle.

It would be interesting to see if their batteries ever reach 100% SoC since that's 13.3-13.4 volts and the PCM will cut voltage once the battery reaches what it believes is a full SoC.

I'm sticking with simple - what my truck expects, what the IBS and PCM are expecting, but when it's battery time, will go with the best of the best AGM - not back to Jeep's off-the-shelf solution. NAPA or similar will be my choice. Made in the USA, stellar reputation, made by a long-time U.S. based battery maker.

Yeah, I’m sure they have the BMS sorted or they wouldn’t want to offer these for automotive use.

My issue was the economics once you go with the 40ah. It ended up being a little over 5 AGM batteries. Of course, that assumes prices don’t increase over the next 10 years for the AGM and there is hopefully no need to replace the AG.

Also, the cold here in CO. No bueno for lithium.

I wasn’t concerned with the 40ish lbs as the Jeep is already a pig. Lol.

For me "will work" != ideal. And for the costs.........
Iowa also means no to such batteries. I want my truck to start after 3 or 4 days of highs of 0 during the day.

The NAPA battery I put in my Silverado when the factory battery finally died at 6 years must have weighed about 40 pounds. I had to stand on a concrete block and have someone had the battery to me then it was a grunt getting it over the fender and down into the tray tucked next to the hood hinge. Man, that NAPA battery was heavy.

The Motorcraft battery in my F250 went just weeks shy of 12 years and if you figure the truck was made, battery installed, truck shipped, then sat on a lot for a while before I bought it at the end of that model year, that battery was likely about 13 years old! It was perfect until it went - and when it went, it went, that was it. I was totally amazed - stock original battery lasting twice as long as almost any other I'd ever owned.
On the other hand, a cheap Walmart battery lasted almost 6 years in my 1936 F20 tractor - it was a 3 year battery and the tractor sat a LOT and had a generator on it, not really high tech or efficient. Another surprise - an abused 3 year Walmart battery going over 5 years in a tractor.

 

[Rusty PW]

My 2011 Nismo still has the oem lead acid battery in it. The oem battery in my 2008 Power Wagon went 10 years before I decided to replace it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My 2011 Nismo still has the oem lead acid battery in it. The oem battery in my 2008 Power Wagon went 10 years before I decided to replace it.

I suspect if my Silverado had not been left sitting undriven for 2 to 4 weeks at a time because I didn't need a truck, the battery in it may have lasted over 6 years, too. They do best when the vehicle starts easily and quickly, kept "full", not over-charged, not under-charged. Not that even a great battery can't fail - they are manufactured items made by people, but generally speaking, with any reasonable care..........
10 years, 11 years - that's great!

 

[$1.98]

East Penn/ DEKA makes the stock Jeep batteries. They also make NAPA batteries.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

East Penn/ DEKA makes the stock Jeep batteries. They also make NAPA batteries.

Made to fca specs. I know all about how that works.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Made to fca specs. I know all about how that works.

I must have missed something, didn't think that was "funny" but then haven't had my coffee yet, either.
When a company (Company A) needs something that they don't make, but that's generally made and sold by others, they figure their price point, get their specs together and go visiting other companies to see about having the item made.
If they need a widget and 4 companies make widgets like they need, they go and talk to the companies that make widgets at least as good as what they want.
They choose one that can meet their needs in numbers - quantities in a certain time period, meet their specs, but just as importantly, meet their required pricing.
Company A chooses a company like "Great Widgets, Ltd." and contract to have them made.
But the price point requires specs slightly less good than what Great Widgets sells under their own name, and the specs are "just make 'em last xx years" as opposed to the widgets Great Widgets is making for Company B.
Great Widgets, Ltd. may make widgets for 2 other companies, besides the really good widgets sold under the Great Widgets brand, but that doesn't mean the ones they make for Company A are as good as the others they make due to the different specs and lower price point.

My experience goes back to my father, and to a guy I used to work with who had worked for Sears for a few years, in their Kenmore appliance division.
Dad says that Sears chose the company he was chief inspector for because the company could meet the specs and standards, the pricing was "OK", and they said that company could get the contract if they made my father the inspector for that line. (units from, the line he was inspector for had the highest quality and lowest failure rates of any product they made - Sears reps looked at all of the internal records)

Similar for the Kenmore stuff - Whirlpool made a lot of the stuff for Kenmore and Bernie had worked for Sears at that time and saw how things worked.

I've read a lot of the "we test oil filters" blogs and web pages out there and it's amazing how filters that come from the same manufacturer, made for different filter sellers, varied internally.
Just because Wix makes it doesn't mean it's a fantastic filter as good as those sold under the Wix name, however, chances are it could be if the company they make it for allows.
But if a company sells crap filters under their own name also makes filters for other companies, the chances of those others being great filters is reduced. There's a reason they put out iffy filters under their own name..............

East Penn makes batteries for others - they make great batteries when allowed to.
NAPA batteries have a fantastic reputation. NAPA has high standards for their batteries and in my experiences using them, they last, they do the job, the failure rate is really low. I'd trust a NAPA battery without hesitation. Would I trust buying a battery from Jeep? Meh, not so much. I'll let them replace batteries under warranty, no money out of my pocket (but as a mechanic and auto electrician myself, I may be more aware of pending doom than some may be so less likely to be stranded)
Anyway, if East Penn has to make batteries at a lower price per unit, quickly in huge numbers, and to FCA specs, the chances of them being up to NAPA standards is lowered.

 

[WK2JT]

I must have missed something, didn't think that was "funny" but then haven't had my coffee yet, either.
When a company (Company A) needs something that they don't make, but that's generally made and sold by others, they figure their price point, get their specs together and go visiting other companies to see about having the item made.
If they need a widget and 4 companies make widgets like they need, they go and talk to the companies that make widgets at least as good as what they want.
They choose one that can meet their needs in numbers - quantities in a certain time period, meet their specs, but just as importantly, meet their required pricing.
Company A chooses a company like "Great Widgets, Ltd." and contract to have them made.
But the price point requires specs slightly less good than what Great Widgets sells under their own name, and the specs are "just make 'em last xx years" as opposed to the widgets Great Widgets is making for Company B.
Great Widgets, Ltd. may make widgets for 2 other companies, besides the really good widgets sold under the Great Widgets brand, but that doesn't mean the ones they make for Company A are as good as the others they make due to the different specs and lower price point.

My experience goes back to my father, and to a guy I used to work with who had worked for Sears for a few years, in their Kenmore appliance division.
Dad says that Sears chose the company he was chief inspector for because the company could meet the specs and standards, the pricing was "OK", and they said that company could get the contract if they made my father the inspector for that line. (units from, the line he was inspector for had the highest quality and lowest failure rates of any product they made - Sears reps looked at all of the internal records)

Similar for the Kenmore stuff - Whirlpool made a lot of the stuff for Kenmore and Bernie had worked for Sears at that time and saw how things worked.

I've read a lot of the "we test oil filters" blogs and web pages out there and it's amazing how filters that come from the same manufacturer, made for different filter sellers, varied internally.
Just because Wix makes it doesn't mean it's a fantastic filter as good as those sold under the Wix name, however, chances are it could be if the company they make it for allows.
But if a company sells crap filters under their own name also makes filters for other companies, the chances of those others being great filters is reduced. There's a reason they put out iffy filters under their own name..............

East Penn makes batteries for others - they make great batteries when allowed to.
NAPA batteries have a fantastic reputation. NAPA has high standards for their batteries and in my experiences using them, they last, they do the job, the failure rate is really low. I'd trust a NAPA battery without hesitation. Would I trust buying a battery from Jeep? Meh, not so much. I'll let them replace batteries under warranty, no money out of my pocket (but as a mechanic and auto electrician myself, I may be more aware of pending doom than some may be so less likely to be stranded)
Anyway, if East Penn has to make batteries at a lower price per unit, quickly in huge numbers, and to FCA specs, the chances of them being up to NAPA standards is lowered.

Wasn’t laughing at the statement. I got the sarcasm behind it, or at least that what I thought it was. There are 3, I think, major battery manufacturers in the US that make the batteries for just about everyone. But as you pointed out, everyone has their own specifications so quality, etc can vary wildly.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Wasn’t laughing at the statement. I got the sarcasm behind it, or at least that what I thought it was. There are 3, I think, major battery manufacturers in the US that make the batteries for just about everyone. But as you pointed out, everyone has their own specifications so quality, etc can vary wildly.

And you did note the sarcasm......... now with coffee and a diet coke in my gut, things are more clear LOL
Even the closest dealer's service writer made a comment on "batteries" and having trouble when I took the WK2 in my wife owned at the time - with 2 dead batteries. I could tell he was really impressed with the batteries.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

I must have missed something, didn't think that was "funny" but then haven't had my coffee yet, either.
When a company (Company A) needs something that they don't make, but that's generally made and sold by others, they figure their price point, get their specs together and go visiting other companies to see about having the item made.
If they need a widget and 4 companies make widgets like they need, they go and talk to the companies that make widgets at least as good as what they want.
They choose one that can meet their needs in numbers - quantities in a certain time period, meet their specs, but just as importantly, meet their required pricing.
Company A chooses a company like "Great Widgets, Ltd." and contract to have them made.
But the price point requires specs slightly less good than what Great Widgets sells under their own name, and the specs are "just make 'em last xx years" as opposed to the widgets Great Widgets is making for Company B.
Great Widgets, Ltd. may make widgets for 2 other companies, besides the really good widgets sold under the Great Widgets brand, but that doesn't mean the ones they make for Company A are as good as the others they make due to the different specs and lower price point.

My experience goes back to my father, and to a guy I used to work with who had worked for Sears for a few years, in their Kenmore appliance division.
Dad says that Sears chose the company he was chief inspector for because the company could meet the specs and standards, the pricing was "OK", and they said that company could get the contract if they made my father the inspector for that line. (units from, the line he was inspector for had the highest quality and lowest failure rates of any product they made - Sears reps looked at all of the internal records)

Similar for the Kenmore stuff - Whirlpool made a lot of the stuff for Kenmore and Bernie had worked for Sears at that time and saw how things worked.

I've read a lot of the "we test oil filters" blogs and web pages out there and it's amazing how filters that come from the same manufacturer, made for different filter sellers, varied internally.
Just because Wix makes it doesn't mean it's a fantastic filter as good as those sold under the Wix name, however, chances are it could be if the company they make it for allows.
But if a company sells crap filters under their own name also makes filters for other companies, the chances of those others being great filters is reduced. There's a reason they put out iffy filters under their own name..............

East Penn makes batteries for others - they make great batteries when allowed to.
NAPA batteries have a fantastic reputation. NAPA has high standards for their batteries and in my experiences using them, they last, they do the job, the failure rate is really low. I'd trust a NAPA battery without hesitation. Would I trust buying a battery from Jeep? Meh, not so much. I'll let them replace batteries under warranty, no money out of my pocket (but as a mechanic and auto electrician myself, I may be more aware of pending doom than some may be so less likely to be stranded)
Anyway, if East Penn has to make batteries at a lower price per unit, quickly in huge numbers, and to FCA specs, the chances of them being up to NAPA standards is lowered.

I've had several OE batteries outlast batteries bought at the parts store.

Last battery I needed was for a Ford truck and I bought it from the Ford dealer. The 2 prior replacement batteries didn't last and I was tired of it. One battery I tried was a Napa reconditioned. I definitely won't do that again, I got a year out of that battery.

I don't worry too much about the Wal-Mart squeeze going on with OE Parts because OE parts are usually the best quality.

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