Which Tow Mirrors?

[Labswine]

Here's my responses on this topic, and still stand by them...

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...-towing-rear-view-mirrors.93572/#post-1501347

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[OldButStillJeeping]

Tow mirrors?

Here's mine:

Be well. Jeep on.

Eric

 

[MudderNuker]

Yesterday, on our way back from camping, it was very windy and made a bad towing truck, terrible. My JTR is by no means a tow truck from the factory, but with larger tires, stock gears, mini van engine and hauling a tall camper with gear, high elevation, it turns into a shit show. I had no issues with stability, trailer sway and keeping a straight line even in the wind. It’s the engine that is underpowered when combined with larger tires and keeping stock gears. Partly my fault but you can only regear so much when the weak link is a 3.6 minivan engine.

The first thing I did when we got home was look at new trucks. I would hate to trade the JTR but also would hate to strip the things I put on.

Our other option is to trade my wife’s SUV for a proper truck towing truck. That would mean that she gets the JTR and I don’t like that.

What was Jeep thinking by using a minivan engine as the power plant for the JT!

For the moment I will look into re-gearing and maybe going down in tire size to 34s.

I did a regear on a Wrangler YJ from 4.10 to 4.88 and I was expecting a huge difference but it was merely noticeable. I’m afraid it will be the same with the JT.

Decisions decisions.

 

[OldButStillJeeping]

Yesterday, on our way back from camping, it was very windy and made a bad towing truck, terrible. My JTR is by no means a tow truck from the factory, but with larger tires, stock gears, mini van engine and hauling a tall camper with gear, high elevation, it turns into a shit show. I had no issues with stability, trailer sway and keeping a straight line even in the wind. It’s the engine that is underpowered when combined with larger tires and keeping stock gears. Partly my fault but you can only regear so much when the weak link is a 3.6 minivan engine.

The first thing I did when we got home was look at new trucks. I would hate to trade the JTR but also would hate to strip the things I put on.

Our other option is to trade my wife’s SUV for a proper truck towing truck. That would mean that she gets the JTR and I don’t like that.

What was Jeep thinking by using a minivan engine as the power plant for the JT!

For the moment I will look into re-gearing and maybe going down in tire size to 34s.

I did a regear on a Wrangler YJ from 4.10 to 4.88 and I was expecting a huge difference but it was merely noticeable. I’m afraid it will be the same with the JT.

Decisions decisions.

Minivan-engine isn't really accurate. The older 3.8 in the JK's was not a good engine, in comparison. The 3.8 doesn't hold a candle to the 3.6.
But saying 'minivan engine' sounds good when the power isn't there. Some minivans and soccer moms and grocery getters have the 3.6. That is true. But it is also used in commercial vans and trucks and getting 300,000 miles or better on them. And they are worked hard! The 3.6 is a very good engine, IMO.

But for towing, not so much.

IMO, if towing a toy hauler or travel trailer - RV; A Fullsize 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton is the way to go.

Putting large mirrors on a JT seems a bit silly to me, at my age now. No offense. But when I was younger, I only had one truck, and it was my daily driver. And with the price of JT's and all trucks today, I would be hard pressed between 'get what I want or get what I need'.

The price I paid for my 2021 Jeep JT Mojave in 2021 was TWENTY THOUSAND dollars more than I paid for my 2017 - 3/4 ton Ford Super Duty 4x4 in 2017. Which I also bought brand new, four years earlier. The 3/4 Super Duty is 3 times the truck as my JT. One may call me stupid to buy a JT, but desire and towing capability.... each have their place. Both have rear lockers. Both have manual transfer case shifters. But the Ford is a work truck and low-tech. The Ford will outlive me. The Jeep truck, maybe not. But it is cooler.

I needed a big truck that could tow big loads. 3/4 ton.

I wanted a cool Jeep truck. I could afford its ridiculous price, and I was retiring, so I bought it. Like a going away present to me and my wife.

Priorities.

If you are towing more than a jet ski or a teardrop trailer, I would say 'Go Big'. The Jt just isn't enuf truck. Cooler, but not big enuf.

Be well. Jeep on.

Eric

 

[bd100]

hauling a tall camper with gear, high elevation,

Smaller trailer, less gear. Folding A-frame trailer, Trail Manor, pop-up, tear drop, tall tear drop, etc. And less gear.

Last time we went to the Rockies, I had too much gear. The back end was sagging, the headlights were aiming into the eyes of oncoming traffic. The rear tires were getting warmer than the fronts. Etc.

Next time, I'll have fewer books and such for the family, carry less water, find lighter recovery gear, etc.

We have a folding A-frame trailer, so at least it's low height and only 2000lb.

 

[tysongladiator]

Minivan-engine isn't really accurate. The older 3.8 in the JK's was not a good engine, in comparison. The 3.8 doesn't hold a candle to the 3.6.
But saying 'minivan engine' sounds good when the power isn't there. Some minivans and soccer moms and grocery getters have the 3.6. That is true. But it is also used in commercial vans and trucks and getting 300,000 miles or better on them. And they are worked hard! The 3.6 is a very good engine, IMO.

But for towing, not so much.

IMO, if towing a toy hauler or travel trailer - RV; A Fullsize 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton is the way to go.

Putting large mirrors on a JT seems a bit silly to me, at my age now. No offense. But when I was younger, I only had one truck, and it was my daily driver. And with the price of JT's and all trucks today, I would be hard pressed between 'get what I want or get what I need'.

The price I paid for my 2021 Jeep JT Mojave in 2021 was TWENTY THOUSAND dollars more than I paid for my 2017 - 3/4 ton Ford Super Duty 4x4 in 2017. Which I also bought brand new, four years earlier. The 3/4 Super Duty is 3 times the truck as my JT. One may call me stupid to buy a JT, but desire and towing capability.... each have their place. Both have rear lockers. Both have manual transfer case shifters. But the Ford is a work truck and low-tech. The Ford will outlive me. The Jeep truck, maybe not. But it is cooler.

I needed a big truck that could tow big loads. 3/4 ton.

I wanted a cool Jeep truck. I could afford its ridiculous price, and I was retiring, so I bought it. Like a going away present to me and my wife.

Priorities.

If you are towing more than a jet ski or a teardrop trailer, I would say 'Go Big'. The Jt just isn't enuf truck. Cooler, but not big enuf.

Be well. Jeep on.

Eric

I think Jeep was thinking the same thing other manufacturers with a mid size truck was thinking. It's a mid size truck. If folks wanted a V8, they would've bought a full size truck.

But.... I've been towing with my JT and haven't had an issue.

 

[OldButStillJeeping]

I have the K-Source mirror. They work well. Fit secure and there is no noticeable vibration.

Out Geo Pro is 7.5’ wide so the mirrors aren’t going to be as wide as the camper but the extra inches do help.

We are currently camping and used them on Friday for the first time. I recommend them. They look much cleaner than strap on ones.

s

Nice set up. I love it actually.

If I saw that, and you are going down the highway alongside me I would comment that that is an awesome set-up. But I would avoid being around you on the highway. No offense. That is the max capability for a JT. IMO.

If you don't climb mountain passes on your travels, I would say that you are good. Maxed out, but good.

Seriously, I like it. Nice JT and trailer!

Be well. Jeep on.

Eric

 

[MudderNuker]

Nice set up. I love it actually.

If I saw that, and you are going down the highway alongside me I would comment that that is an awesome set-up. But I would avoid being around you on the highway. No offense. That is the max capability for a JT. IMO.

If you don't climb mountain passes on your travels, I would say that you are good. Maxed out, but good.

Seriously, I like it. Nice JT and trailer!

Be well. Jeep on.

Eric

Why would you avoid being around me on the highway? There is absolutely no trailer sway with my setup. If that is what you meant. That is about the only thing I don’t complain about when towing. The camper weight is around 3,400 plus gear.

 

[OldButStillJeeping]

Why would you avoid being around me on the highway? There is absolutely no trailer sway with my setup. If that is what you meant. That is about the only thing I don’t complain about when towing. The camper weight is around 3,400 plus gear.

Only because I stay away from what I think could be a catastrophic failure in a hard stop or a sway-terminal- failure with roll-over. I don't know your trailer sway issues as a driver near you.

You say it is solid, I believe you.

But on the highway, your setup is close to max. It's not just weight of tow, it is sway bars and wind effects on the trailer. Verses the tow rigs weight to overcome it. Many people do not use sway bars. And people get injured or worse. I am glad to hear that you use a sway bar hitch.

That's all.

I like your rig and trailer set up. It is nice. But a fullsize truck would make me trust passing by you.

Be well. Jeep on.

Eric

 

[MudderNuker]

Only because I stay away from what I think could be a catastrophic failure in a hard stop or a sway-terminal- failure with roll-over. I don't know your trailer sway issues as a driver near you.

You say it is solid, I believe you.

But on the highway, your setup is close to max. It's not just weight of tow, it is sway bars and wind effects on the trailer. Verses the tow rigs weight to overcome it. Many people do not use sway bars. And people get injured or worse. I am glad to hear that you use a sway bar hitch.

That's all.

I like your rig and trailer set up. It is nice. But a fullsize truck would make me trust passing by you.

Be well. Jeep on.

Eric

I forgot to mention that the Airlift airbags help too. It’s not as bouncy as without. But yah, a full size truck would have no issues towing this rig.

 

[Josh00333]

I ended up buying the strap one ones with the wedges that a forum member makes. I'll give them a try and if they don't work out well for me, I'll source the ones posted above. Thanks guys!

These are the best ones, if you sent them back…..

 

[tysongladiator]

Why would you avoid being around me on the highway? There is absolutely no trailer sway with my setup. If that is what you meant. That is about the only thing I don’t complain about when towing. The camper weight is around 3,400 plus gear.

In my opinion, some people have a hard time accepting towing reality (my words). The truth is that you can tow with anything. Even cars. You just have to know what your towing capabilities are for that vehicle and stay within those parameters.

Would I tow a trailer with 10,000lbs? No. Because that is beyond the tow capacity for a mid size truck. In the same note, would I tow my boat with my car? No. Beyond the capacity. But I will with our Ram, JT, or JKU because it within the towing capacity. It's a hard for some to accept that.

As long as your within your tow capacity, you have a setup to compensate for the inconsistencies, and you're happy with your situation, then you're good to go. Btw, nice setup.

 

[DylanM]

In my opinion, some people have a hard time accepting towing reality (my words). The truth is that you can tow with anything. Even cars. You just have to know what your towing capabilities are for that vehicle and stay within those parameters.

Would I tow a trailer with 10,000lbs? No. Because that is beyond the tow capacity for a mid size truck. In the same note, would I tow my boat with my car? No. Beyond the capacity. But I will with our Ram, JT, or JKU because it within the towing capacity. It's a hard for some to accept that.

As long as your within your tow capacity, you have a setup to compensate for the inconsistencies, and you're happy with your situation, then you're good to go. Btw, nice setup.

Agreed, and I would take things a bit further.

What I perceive is that many people have unrealistic expectations as to how a vehicle should be able to perform and handle when towing near, but still within, its rated capacity. It seems to me that the common attitude is one should still be able to bip on down the highway with trailer attached, cruise set at 75mph, unaffected by road grade nor headwinds, and only a mild feeling of extra weight or added load impairing how the vehicle rides and handles -- in short, it should drive not too much different than how it does without a towed load, but get worse fuel mileage. The reality is one needs to drive slower, accept that the drivetrain needs to operate differently due to the higher stress, and realize the overall weight they're controlling has more than doubled. The vehicle is within its capacity, but either the mindset or risk comfort level of the driver doesn't jibe with the requirements of operating the setup.

 

[MudderNuker]

Agreed, and I would take things a bit further.

What I perceive is that many people have unrealistic expectations as to how a vehicle should be able to perform and handle when towing near, but still within, its rated capacity. It seems to me that the common attitude is one should still be able to bip on down the highway with trailer attached, cruise set at 75mph, unaffected by road grade nor headwinds, and only a mild feeling of extra weight or added load impairing how the vehicle rides and handles -- in short, it should drive not too much different than how it does without a towed load, but get worse fuel mileage. The reality is one needs to drive slower, accept that the drivetrain needs to operate differently due to the higher stress, and realize the overall weight they're controlling has more than doubled. The vehicle is within its capacity, but either the mindset or risk comfort level of the driver doesn't jibe with the requirements of operating the setup.

Most of the way I kept it at 60 MPH on some flats it could do 65. With the frontal wind on mild hills it had to downshift to 4th to maintain 50 but it would not gain any speed. I have been towing for over 30 years and have had several trucks and always tow well below the limits and at safe speeds. All of the trucks, I've owned before the Gladiator had spare power for days like the one I encountered on the way back, mentioned on my reply above. Not the Gladiator. It felt gutless and that is with AFE Scorcher GT on. Without it would have been worse. I was towing about 3,000 lbs. less than the rated capacity (7,000), although I know I diminished it with bigger tires, lift and cargo rack and some gear on the bed plus the camper with aerodynamics of a barn door. Nevertheless, the experience was bad. Even my wife was asking why it was revving so high to climb a hill at 45. She insists I need a "real truck", her words. Ouch!

There is no way this truck can tow 7,000lbs., unless you are at sea level and perfectly flat roads. Where we went camping it varied from 7,300 to 5,000ft. So add that to the variable that hurt towing. Other than towing this truck does good, with style and can't be beat offroad.

 

[bleda2002]

Agreed, and I would take things a bit further.

What I perceive is that many people have unrealistic expectations as to how a vehicle should be able to perform and handle when towing near, but still within, its rated capacity. It seems to me that the common attitude is one should still be able to bip on down the highway with trailer attached, cruise set at 75mph, unaffected by road grade nor headwinds, and only a mild feeling of extra weight or added load impairing how the vehicle rides and handles -- in short, it should drive not too much different than how it does without a towed load, but get worse fuel mileage. The reality is one needs to drive slower, accept that the drivetrain needs to operate differently due to the higher stress, and realize the overall weight they're controlling has more than doubled. The vehicle is within its capacity, but either the mindset or risk comfort level of the driver doesn't jibe with the requirements of operating the setup.

Yes, people think that to tow something it needs to not be noticeable back there. The reality is that unless you tow often, you'll always notice it back there and you should always account for it.

I've towed our 4.6k lb camper from Florida to pigeon forge and back, up grades and down grades, interstate and 2 lanes, and I will say that with out 5.13s I would not want to do that on big tires but it did it with out ever feeling overly dramatic. No it wasn't fast up steep hills, and yes it made a lot of noise doing it, but as far as stability, breaking, and sway control the gladiator never made me feel nervous. The gladiator is limited by its lack of power more than anything, and that is exacerbated by the fact we all want to run 37s and still tow.

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