Winch wiring to battery with IBS (Smart battery) sensor

[Zachanadandy]

There's a different between a short circuit and an overcurrent protection. The blow time rating chart above is meant for overcurrent protection for slow-blow type fuses. Electric motors are usually protected by slow-blow fuse type due to various loads. Example is an ARB compressor didn't used standard type A fuse for that reason as it's considered as fast-acting. A short circuit will blow any fuse instantly, like in a case of a front end accident.

If the short circuit current is high enough. The problem is your jeep is powered by a relatively weak battery somewhere between 600-700 amps. That's all the available fault current. In a dead short you might see 800A and it won't be for very long. Even an ANL fuse is slow blow. If it's big enough to flow full current on a long pull, it's 200% 10 second rating is too big to actually protect anything. A 400A fuse which is required for most winches is too big to trip under a dead short situation, again which is why NO winch manufacturers recommend fusing. How would recommending fusing raise cost? The theory that it's cost savings doesn't pass the sniff test.

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[RougeShot12er]

I love the random fuse discussion, but it is not really helping guys. lol

I am still getting about 50/50 on my responses to this question.

Also, watched a bunch of YouTube installs yesterday and most went through the sensor.
See 30 minute mark

 

[Zachanadandy]

I love the random fuse discussion, but it is not really helping guys. lol

I am still getting about 50/50 on my responses to this question.

Also, watched a bunch of YouTube installs yesterday and most went through the sensor.
See 30 minute mark

I always go straight to the battery with the positive and negative, just like the manufacturers recommend.

 

[RougeShot12er]

I always go straight to the battery with the positive and negative, just like the manufacturers recommend.

On top of the sensor or in between the sensor and terminal?

I am finding zero guidance from Mopar. Do you have a link to recommendations from Mopar with the IBS sensor?

Thanks!

 

[Mr._Bill]

On top of the sensor or in between the sensor and terminal?

I am finding zero guidance from Mopar. Do you have a link to recommendations from Mopar with the IBS sensor?

Thanks!

The IBS attaches to the negative post on the battery. Any negative cables connected to the battery attach to the top of the IBS. The IBS monitors current flow and that data is used by the charging system to adjust output from the alternator.

 

[Vtur]

If the short circuit current is high enough. The problem is your jeep is powered by a relatively weak battery somewhere between 600-700 amps. That's all the available fault current. In a dead short you might see 800A and it won't be for very long. Even an ANL fuse is slow blow. If it's big enough to flow full current on a long pull, it's 200% 10 second rating is too big to actually protect anything. A 400A fuse which is required for most winches is too big to trip under a dead short situation, again which is why NO winch manufacturers recommend fusing. How would recommending fusing raise cost? The theory that it's cost savings doesn't pass the sniff test.

Please explain what can happens to the winch #2 conductor during a short circuit if connected directly to battery?

 

[Zachanadandy]

Please explain what can happens to the winch #2 conductor during a short circuit if connected directly to battery?

The same thing that happens with a 400A fuse that will in fact flow ~800A for 10 seconds? Yes there's potential for insulation melting in both scenarios, as both far exceed the conductors rated amapcity. The fuse still doesn't protect anything. A fuse large enough for a hard pull will in fact flow the full CCA of the battery for long enough that the battery will likely discharge to the point that it will never trip said fuse. As the other guy found out, running a smaller than rated fuse leads to nuisance tripping under winch use. There's a reason NO manufacturers recommend fusing. It doesn't do anything.

 

[Vtur]

The same thing that happens with a 400A fuse that will in fact flow ~800A for 10 seconds? Yes there's potential for insulation melting in both scenarios, as both far exceed the conductors rated amapcity. The fuse still doesn't protect anything. A fuse large enough for a hard pull will in fact flow the full CCA of the battery for long enough that the battery will likely discharge to the point that it will never trip said fuse. As the other guy found out, running a smaller than rated fuse leads to nuisance tripping under winch use. There's a reason NO manufacturers recommend fusing. It doesn't do anything.

That's correct in an ideal scenario, that's why 12k winch cable is only a #2 and comes in fiberglass sleeve to prevent a fire. The fuse is not to protects the winch or cable, it's for the battery incase of shorted out cells.

 

[Zachanadandy]

That's correct in an ideal scenario, that's why 12k winch cable is only a #2 and comes in fiberglass sleeve to prevent a fire. The fuse is not to protects the winch or cable, it's for the battery incase of shorted out cells.

How is an external fuse protecting an internally shorted battery? Battery shorted internally is going to do whatever it does be that venting, melting, or catching fire even if you disconnected all loads (which a winch fuse wouldn't do anyway). That's what makes EV fires so difficult, there's no shutoff inside a battery period.

 

[Vtur]

How is an external fuse protecting an internally shorted battery? Battery shorted internally is going to do whatever it does be that venting, melting, or catching fire even if you disconnected all loads (which a winch fuse wouldn't do anyway). That's what makes EV fires so difficult, there's no shutoff inside a battery period.

Yes, a fuse that's rated below a battery's amperage can prevent a battery fire due to short circuit.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Yes, a fuse that's rated below a battery's amperage can prevent a battery fire due to short circuit.

That goes back to the way fuses work though, any 400A fuse will flow 800A for 10s, well above the batteries rating. Huge battery banks for UPS/ energy storage are generally un-fused as well. I've welded using multiple batteries in series, again no fuse. If it were remotely the concern or the benefit the internet thinks it is, not only would every OEM winch come fused (cost savings for a $20 fuse...really?) but the manufacturers would not only recommend fusing they'd bold and highlight that requirement in their manuals at 0 cost to them. It's not a thing because it's not a thing. If it gives you the warm fuzzies or you like the illusion of protection by all means add one.

 

[Vtur]

That goes back to the way fuses work though, any 400A fuse will flow 800A for 10s, well above the batteries rating. Huge battery banks for UPS/ energy storage are generally un-fused as well. I've welded using multiple batteries in series, again no fuse. If it were remotely the concern or the benefit the internet thinks it is, not only would every OEM winch come fused (cost savings for a $20 fuse...really?) but the manufacturers would not only recommend fusing they'd bold and highlight that requirement in their manuals at 0 cost to them. It's not a thing because it's not a thing. If it gives you the warm fuzzies or you like the illusion of protection by all means add one.

It's hard to predict where the short might happen. A perfect scenario is when the winch cable heats up, melted and open within the fiber sleeve then it ends there. But having it some how melting and bonding to ground close by the batteries can be an issue.


To the OP. You can connects directly to battery, just make sure to protect the cable from rubbing and don't upsize the conductors.

Also, stay away from those cheap amazon's solenoid if you're planning to add one for convenience.

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