Diesel no longer available to order!

[BearFootSam]

Let me start by saying I love the diesel engine. The first car I bought new was a diesel and I appreciate what I consider to be superior driving dynamics for most of what I do. The combination of diesel and Jeep was very tempting but that said I couldn’t get past the issues with current gen motors.

DPF, DEF, SCR, HPFP…. The number of auxiliary systems that are necessary for function but prone to issues is concerning. The first four and a half years I owned my TDI (DPF only) were in Germany and we never had issues with the DPF. When I moved back to CONUS we started have more frequent regens as the DPF started failing. The fuel in the US seems problematic for smaller diesels especially.

In comparison to the 3.6 which is comparatively stone simple as late model engines go, it was hard to turn down the reliability advantage even at the cost of torque and efficiency.

Sadly I think we are watching the slow death of diesel outside of the heavy duty segment where it is the only choice for big work. I am glad that I had the experience of driving a manual pre-scr diesel. Never driven anything else that I could drop the clutch in second without touching the throttle and it would climb a hill. Driving that thing in the alps was a pleasure, effortlessly charging up hairpins at altitude with power to spare.

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[BearFootSam]

They should prolly get rid of manual too.. it's 2022 and tech has come a long way.
In a pickup truck it's unnecessary and proved by every other real truck manufacturer. Off roading it's unnecessary, as well as being a daily driver it's down right dumb with tech of new auto's.

The reliability issues I've seen in this forum with both manual and diesel options... it's taking engineers focus away from what the jeep gladiators should be... extremely durable, maintenance free and long lasting. When has there been more issues with manuals than autos... not ever! Except in the past 10 years.. But when Jeep decided try and give everyone, something... sh_t starts going t hell.

The ol 4.0 gave jeep so much street cred in the arena or reliability and longevity.. that all these these other options (which are redundant) are taking away from the roots of the brand. Maybe Stick in a JL makes sense in some respects.. can't find many,..but a pickup it's downright silly.

Unless they're gonna design this thing to tow 10k the options below would be better suited in this truck: Paddle shifters, the new straight six and/or a 392 makes way more sense in a gladiator.

I cringed a bit at choosing the auto but I agree, it made the most sense. The auto is soo good, better towing, more durable in all likelihood for heavy loads. I love a manual as does my spouse but rest of the powertrain is biased towards integration with the auto. I suspect the 3.6 will last longer with the auto due to less shock loading and generally lower RPM due to the breadth of the 8 speed.

Back when autos were 4-5 speeds the manual was more decisively better, compared with 8 speeds it lacks. I might be an outlier but I’d take better gears over more power 9/10.

 

[jensjer]

I cringed a bit at choosing the auto but I agree, it made the most sense. The auto is soo good, better towing, more durable in all likelihood for heavy loads. I love a manual as does my spouse but rest of the powertrain is biased towards integration with the auto. I suspect the 3.6 will last longer with the auto due to less shock loading and generally lower RPM due to the breadth of the 8 speed.

Back when autos were 4-5 speeds the manual was more decisively better, compared with 8 speeds it lacks. I might be an outlier but I’d take better gears over more power 9/10.

My other half insists on driving a manual, her ride is a 15' Forester. I've owned plenty of manuals in my youth.. but once you reach 45 the last thing you need to deal with is 1 more thing to monkey with, it's also a pain in the sciatica! spend an hour in stop and go traffic I want jump that thing off a cliff.

 

[Rainman519]

Ecodiesels are disappearing across the Jeep/Ram line-up in favor of, you guessed-it, hybrids and EVs. Jeep's already discontinued it and Ram will discontinue in Jan 2023.

 

[BourbonRunner]

It really is a shame but it shouldn't be a surprise. The US auto market has never had great success with diesels in lighter vehicles. Olds Diesel jokes aside, they just didn't ever take off here. Maybe it was because of the GM mistakes or just because Americans don't like the smell.

MB and VW had niche appeal in the passenger car side. The MB's are legendarily reliable and the TDI in the VWs pre-diesel gate was a highly capable if not slow vehicle.

For all intents and purposes they should have been very successful in light trucks given that every single truck manufacturer in the USDM has a ROW diesel, but they've not bothered to federalize due to absurd emissions laws that regulated diesels as though they were gassers.

 

[BearFootSam]

It really is a shame but it shouldn't be a surprise. The US auto market has never had great success with diesels in lighter vehicles. Olds Diesel jokes aside, they just didn't ever take off here. Maybe it was because of the GM mistakes or just because Americans don't like the smell.

MB and VW had niche appeal in the passenger car side. The MB's are legendarily reliable and the TDI in the VWs pre-diesel gate was a highly capable if not slow vehicle.

For all intents and purposes they should have been very successful in light trucks given that every single truck manufacturer in the USDM has a ROW diesel, but they've not bothered to federalize due to absurd emissions laws that regulated diesels as though they were gassers.

For the 8 years, I owned my 09' TDI I couldn't stop being impressed by how it managed to be both quick (240 ft/lbs of low rpm torque in a small sedan) and get outstanding economy. Well it turned out there was a reason it seemed to defy logic but at least VW bought it back for a fantastic price! It's a real shame because a similar engine scaled to 3L would have been a great Jeep motor.

There was some ironic luck in trading my 95' LR Discovery via Cash-4-Clunkers for what I paid for it to buy a VW TDI that they bought back for 60% of sticker @ 125k miles.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

Let me start by saying I love the diesel engine. The first car I bought new was a diesel and I appreciate what I consider to be superior driving dynamics for most of what I do. The combination of diesel and Jeep was very tempting but that said I couldn’t get past the issues with current gen motors.

DPF, DEF, SCR, HPFP…. The number of auxiliary systems that are necessary for function but prone to issues is concerning. The first four and a half years I owned my TDI (DPF only) were in Germany and we never had issues with the DPF. When I moved back to CONUS we started have more frequent regens as the DPF started failing. The fuel in the US seems problematic for smaller diesels especially.

In comparison to the 3.6 which is comparatively stone simple as late model engines go, it was hard to turn down the reliability advantage even at the cost of torque and efficiency.

Sadly I think we are watching the slow death of diesel outside of the heavy duty segment where it is the only choice for big work. I am glad that I had the experience of driving a manual pre-scr diesel. Never driven anything else that I could drop the clutch in second without touching the throttle and it would climb a hill. Driving that thing in the alps was a pleasure, effortlessly charging up hairpins at altitude with power to spare.

One of the biggest reasons you didn’t see issues with your tdi is German law allows auto manufacturers to bypass systems if the computer indicates failure to essential systems…… so Conus we allowed a college to amplify the dark side….. Europe has separate standards that protect from failure. Basically the original tune VW had in place was allowed to maintain while we in America allow a federal agency to impose “laws” without due process and it has effects.

Not here to argue- just here to state that the EPA and it’s abuse of power is incredible. Unless change is imposed, this will be another factor contributing to the pursuer of American industry outsourcing manufacturing. - This is something that will require critical thought, and not just emotional outburst.

My opinion- It isn’t right that we have a standard here in America to meet environmental requirements that can be completely circumvented by outsourcing to a lesser stringent country…. I suppose the ozone and environment outside the US boarders is less important?


Sorry for the derail. Back to the topic at hand. This definitely leaves a lot to ponder…
Long term- parts avality with a motor in production for a short time period….
What’s coming next for diesels? Federally mandated inspections/annual checks?
Did the vehicles with these motors just become trash resale? Or future gold mines.


One of the articles indicated software updates…. Is it worth it to take the plunge and pick up an additional ECM now and have it cloned to bypass the imposing trash economy??? GDE is probably going to be getting a rather large amount of “new” business (my opinion….)

??

https://www.motortrend.com/news/202...ar-out-edition-suv-gladiator-truck-ecodiesel/

This article indicates far out edition is the last for the wrangler- but will continue to offer in the gladiator. (Though with the ram 1500 dropping the diesel- I’m assuming it will be across the board.)

 

[TroutFishingInAmerica]

They should prolly get rid of manual too.. it's 2022 and tech has come a long way.
In a pickup truck it's unnecessary and proved by every other real truck manufacturer. Off roading it's unnecessary, as well as being a daily driver it's down right dumb with tech of new auto's.

The reliability issues I've seen in this forum with both manual and diesel options... it's taking engineers focus away from what the jeep gladiators should be... extremely durable, maintenance free and long lasting. When has there been more issues with manuals than autos... not ever! Except in the past 10 years.. But when Jeep decided try and give everyone, something... sh_t starts going t hell.

The ol 4.0 gave jeep so much street cred in the arena or reliability and longevity.. that all these these other options (which are redundant) are taking away from the roots of the brand. Maybe Stick in a JL makes sense in some respects.. can't find many,..but a pickup it's downright silly.

Unless they're gonna design this thing to tow 10k the options below would be better suited in this truck: Paddle shifters, the new straight six and/or a 392 makes way more sense in a gladiator.

The manuals are almost gone. With around 12-13% new vehicle sales in USA, hard to say how much longer they will hold on.

 

[Tupacshakur]

Progress, folks. We should all be excited for what's next, just as we looked forward to the Gladiator coming out... May not make everyone happy though. There are plenty of options for those who want to live in the past. Perhaps not too bright to try it with a vehicle that's 3 years old. ?

 

[BearFootSam]

The manuals are almost gone. With around 12-13% new vehicle sales in USA, hard to say how much longer they will hold on.

I am on the lookout for a good manual that can be maintained for the next 15 years. My spouse conditioned buying the auto on getting a manual run-about, and I agree. Ultimately, when I teach my kiddo to drive in 12-15 years, it will be on a manual. I learned to drive in one and though the learning curve was steeper, it paid dividends. If you find yourself in the developing world or want to drive a tractor or motorcycle, the skills are very transferrable. I didn't have any issue teaching myself to ride because the concepts of throttle and clutch manipulation were second nature. There is also no better way to learn mechanical sympathy and understand the sounds and feel of an engine than to shift your own gears.

If we consider the grand scheme of environmental impact, diesel has many benefits that aren't being accounted for, in my opinion. Manufacturing a vehicle is a massive fraction of its carbon footprint, as is the refining and delivery of petroleum products. The oil industry lobbies to keep that out of the discussion, but if we were to account for the impact of getting fuel products to the pump, a vehicle with slightly higher emissions but much lower unit volume consumption of fuel might work out to have a lower overall impact. And.. a longer-lasting engine design, such as diesel, is known for, in theory reduces the number of vehicles manufactured and in turn net impact.

Say all things being equal, diesel consumes 30-40% less fuel per mile traveled. The impact is not just tailpipe emissions per mile traveled but also 30-40% less oil pumped from the ground, transported by train, truck, and pipeline. I don't know the numbers off-hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes nearly a gallon of fuel energy equivalent to get said fuel from 5k' below ground to the local pump.

 

[IPRoutes]

Diesel engines emit less carbon dioxide than gasoline. It is the soot and the NOx that gives it a bad rap from environment pov, and that is addressed now with emissions systems. But I wish more effort was put into making the emissions system more reliable/dependable than completely eliminating diesel engines.

 

[Uparms]

Some good points but even if it comes down to just plain driver preference, it's great to have a manual option. I love my 8spd auto. I want to agree with your final paragraph. but even with some of these wish list items (and I have been waiting for an affordable hemi or new I6 option) , some folks will still want and enjoy a nice manual.

"Unless they're going to design this thing to tow 10k the options below would be better suited in this truck: Paddle shifters, the new straight six and/or a 392 makes way more sense in a gladiator".

 

[Uparms]

Diesel is still orderable on Jeep.com configuration page.

 

[mrmo]

You gotta be shittin me. So i now have a one year old vehicle thats obsolete? So whats gonna happen to parts supply, are they gonna abandon us ? Sounds like time to bypass some things and get an ECU cloned

 

[Mr._Bill]

Diesel is still orderable on Jeep.com configuration page.

Which has never been accurate or up to date.

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