Toe in VS Toe Out

[Lunentucker]

Just FYI - I guess there will always be disagreement.


In their toe plates literature, Steer Smarts recommends toeing out by 1/2 a degree.
That seems to be in contradiction to what most Jeepers will tell you, saying that the toe should be in by about a half a degree.

I emailed Steer Smarts and here's what they said -
"We spec it that way so it basically provides a pre load on your joints and it helps tighten things up when driving down the road.
Regards,
Chris Doyle | Customer Support Manager"

I have been tinkering with both for a few weeks now, and I can say that on my rig - Mojave / 2" AEV / Correction Brackets / BFG K02 AT - that it seems SLIGHTLY more stable on the road with a tiny amount of toe out.

I just went back to slight toe out today, and it's definitely more stable on highway.

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[Lunentucker]

I'm not saying this is the end-all, but if you're having issues with handling, it's a zero cost try.
Obviously, the farther you measure from center the more the number will be in inches or millimeters.
I like the laser on the flat of the rim. It seems to get the same number every time.

 

[jac04]

I'm really surprised that a company like Steer Smarts is trying to tell you that toe will "tighten things up" in regards to steering joints. Lame explanation.

Now, if you really want to get into it, read up on camber thrust. To offset camber thrust induced by negative camber, you should run toe-out.

 

[Darkspeed]

BE CAREFUL STEERING AT SPEED

you may get more than you expect.

you are giving up straight line stability at speed for increased cornering at lower speeds.

master Tse says no toe out..

 

[J Sierra]

You would need a theodolite to measure angle.

 

[Tommyd]

Just FYI - I guess there will always be disagreement.


In their toe plates literature, Steer Smarts recommends toeing out by 1/2 a degree.
That seems to be in contradiction to what most Jeepers will tell you, saying that the toe should be in by about a half a degree.

I emailed Steer Smarts and here's what they said -
"We spec it that way so it basically provides a pre load on your joints and it helps tighten things up when driving down the road.
Regards,
Chris Doyle | Customer Support Manager"

I have been tinkering with both for a few weeks now, and I can say that on my rig - Mojave / 2" AEV / Correction Brackets / BFG K02 AT - that it seems SLIGHTLY more stable on the road with a tiny amount of toe out.

I just went back to slight toe out today, and it's definitely more stable on highway.

Does it matter what steer smarts says? Just saying. I’m going with Jim Mcgean saying 1/16 to 1/8 inch in. My truck drives Perfect with Clayton 2.5 and 37s.

 

[bd100]

Expanding painter's pole. Rim to rim. Snug at the front, slightly loose at the back.

 

[Lunentucker]

Here's another Internet expert saying toe out to the edge of the specs.

 

[Burghardphotography]

From Steersmarts:

"Yes, the industry as a whole recommends .5˚ of toe-in. From the studies that we've conducted, we find that .5˚ of toe-out is what works the best with our products, as well as with countering any type of potential death wobble situation. Everyone is entitled to set things up however they see fit, but our recommendations are not just pulled out of thin air, they come for studies and research that we've done with setting the vehicles up in different ways.”

 

[IanNubbit]

I could see it being possible to make sense, but only on positive cambered rigs. Not any with zero to negative camber. Just far to easy to become really dangerous with toe-out

 

[Mbryson]

I LOVE your laser measuring tool. Must purchase one

 

[jac04]

I could see it being possible to make sense, but only on positive cambered rigs.

I'm curious what the reasoning is behind this statement. Positive camber creates camber thrust that is trying to move each front tire away from the centerline of the vehicle. The way to offset this positive camber thrust is by using toe-in, not toe-out.

 

[IanNubbit]

I'm curious what the reasoning is behind this statement. Positive camber creates camber thrust that is trying to move each front tire away from the centerline of the vehicle. The way to offset this positive camber thrust is by using toe-in, not toe-out.

Might be some skewed thinking from old school IFS logic. You're probably right as far as Straight Axles

 

[mrmo]

Wait, so you have larger tires on the vehicle, with the cooresponding weight penalty. These will naturally push the linkage out on their own...thats why you give it a little toe in, to compensate for the tires to push out. I would think putting the toe at zero would allow the linkage and steering gear to take up on any slack and end up with slight toe out. I would be interested in tire wear patterns after that, like long term over a few months. The tread would start scuffing

 

[Lunentucker]

Wait, so you have larger tires on the vehicle, with the cooresponding weight penalty. These will naturally push the linkage out on their own...thats why you give it a little toe in, to compensate for the tires to push out. I would think putting the toe at zero would allow the linkage and steering gear to take up on any slack and end up with slight toe out. I would be interested in tire wear patterns after that, like long term over a few months. The tread would start scuffing

What's the basis of the assumption that otherwise straight tires push out instead of in when pushed forward?

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