I've become disillusioned with my Jeep

[sharpsicle]

The fact that car companies are allowed to ship vehicles with a known problem like a death wobble is absolutely insane. Despite what the manufacturers say, it's a real thing across pretty much all the brands. I've seen videos of it happening, and complaints from people online. I've personally never experienced it, but my back seats have 2 car seats for two little kids, and if I ever experienced a death wobble in my stock Gladiator I'd be selling it the next day, and never buying a Stellantis product again.

First, they don't "ship with death wobble". It develops over time. So no, no company is shipping out a truck knowing it has death wobble from the factory....

Also, I'm convinced that a majority of car owners should really be leasing instead. Many these days don't want to accept the work or risk that comes with ownership of something like a vehicle. These comments of "I'd sell it right away if I ever had a problem" are funny. Especially on things that are totally fixable if or when they arise. Every vehicle, every one, has a risk of something going wrong. It's silly to act like it's massive neglect by a company because these risks simply exist.

Sometimes to fix a problem on something you own, you just gotta put on your boots and get to work.

I agree with you 100%. Captain Hindsight is of no use at this point. Just wanted to document that I 100% disagree with these folks implying it's a normal part of life or somehow @Murgatroid 's fault for not doing enough maintenance.

You and I are definitely on the same page. This situation is why warranties are put in place on things like this, so that if they drew the short straw on something in the game of statistical chance, they can go get it corrected. Nothing's perfect and things vary. @Murgatroid drew a short straw unfortunately.

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[Guns_N_Rosaries]

First, they don't "ship with death wobble". It develops over time. So no, no company is shipping out a truck knowing it has death wobble from the factory....

Also, I'm convinced that a majority of car owners should really be leasing instead. Many these days don't want to accept the work or risk that comes with ownership of something like a vehicle. These comments of "I'd sell it right away if I ever had a problem" are funny. Especially on things that are totally fixable if or when they arise. Every vehicle, every one, has a risk of something going wrong. It's silly to act like it's massive neglect by a company because these risks simply exist.

Sometimes to fix a problem on something you own, you just gotta put on your boots and get to work.

"Develops over time"
The Gladiator has barely been out for 4 years. People have been complaining about it for a couple years already. Your fanboy is showing lol

 

[HooliganActual]

These comments of "I'd sell it right away if I ever had a problem" are funny. @Murgatroid drew a short straw unfortunately.

This would be akin to someone having a 60,000 tire wear out (not catastrophically fail) at 40,000 miles. We live in a world where physics applies, friction happens, and mechanical things wear out.

While the following comment is not meant to be the diagnosis of the problem, people should realize that, as an example, there is a world that exists where the bushing on a control arm could have been from a batch of rubber that did not have enough carbon black in the mix and the rubber is softer than it should be. It passes out of the rubber manufacturer's hands into the control arm manufacturer's hands and ultimately is installed on a vehicle and fails before it really should.

As you've said, this is why there are warranties because $h!t happens. The concept of "I'll sell this vehicle if something goes prematurely wrong (in my eyes)" is ridiculous. I've had two tires blow out the sidewall with less than 500 miles on them, replaced under a warranty and I didn't sell my vehicle just because of that. And when someone says "Well that's a safety thing"...so is losing a tire on a highway.

To the OP @Murgatroid I would really suggest that your frustration/disappointment/anger/etc. would be better directed at the shop that is expending minimal effort and taking the easy way out by slapping on a new stabilizer rather than fixing the problem. Take it to a reliable independent mechanic/shop and, if nothing else, pay their diagnoses fee and take that info back to the dealership to get whatever they find repaired under warranty.

 

[heftysmurf]

Just an anecdotal story about my experience, though not with the JT. On my JK, I ran 37s with a Rock Krawler 3.5" lift and beefed up front end parts -- That's worthy because the kicker is -- I ran NO steering stabilizer. The Synergy TR, DL, and TB were all stout enough that I didn't need it.

Saying that, I'd just really verify your trackbar links as the only time I had death wobble was when I was dorking around with the trackbar and failed to tighten it to spec. It was tight...but not to spec.

Ball joints have given me awful steering but not on the death wobble spectrum. I know OP is taking it to a dealer but any chance you have legitimate Jeep shops there that do this daily and can diagnose?

Good luck.

 

[HooliganActual]

It seems that Jeep engineers, after having made a solid axle vehicle, still can't fix a problem, then maybe they need to go back to the drawing board or Jeep needs to hire new engineers. No modern vehicle, that is well maintained and only a few year and less than 100, 000 miles should have a front end of death.

OP, I know your post was not necessarily a "help me solve this post" and was more of a "I want to get this off my chest" post but I'd like to make a real and honest suggestion here.

We've had three pages of debate, diagnosis, etc. but I'm not sure how much we've helped you if you are actually looking for help. As has been mentioned, the steering stabilizer could be the problem but usually isn't and tends to only mask the underlying problem. There are a limited number of things that could cause death wobble and based on what you've said it doesn't sound like the dealership has probably gone through them all.

I dont know how mechanically inclined you are but there are some things you can do to try and diagnose it and at least better arm yourself with information the next time it goes back to the dealership.

1. I'll accept that you're tires are okay and you're alignment are okay since you've addressed those​

2. I'll accept that you're stabilizer is okay since it's been replaced​

SIDENOTE: I used to teach Root Cause Analysis in a Fortune 50 company and there is a problem solving principle called Occam's Razor that essentially says that the simplest solution is usually correct. In this case, since you've addressed tires, alignment and stabilizer, it must be something else.

3. Some mechanical joint in the front end is loose​

a. You could check the tightness of all the bolts in the steering, drag link, tie rod, stabilizer, control arms, knuckles, etc.​

b. One of the above bolts has wobbled out the hole it connects to and can shift under load, so when checking the tightness of the bolts above, try to see if things slip back and forth before you attempt to check the bolt's tightness.​

4. Some mechanical joint has failed, so start wiggling the tie rod, drag link and trackbar rod ends to see if they move too freely because they really shouldn't. Same with the control arm bushings.​

5. You can do "the wiggle test" by jacking the front tires up, one at a time, and attempting to wiggle the entire wheel without turning the wheel. If it wiggles top to bottom (your hands at six and twelve) then it could be a bad ball joint. Sided to side (hands at three and nine) then it could be a wheel bearing.​

​

These are a few easy things you can check to better diagnose the problem and have a more informed conversation with the dealership's service guy. Also, as I recommended in my last post here, you could always take it to an independent offroad shop and have it evaluated. Dealership shops tend to have a "captured audience" and some may not put forth the same effort as a respectable independent who relies on word of mouth and Yelp reviews to build their customer base.

 

[Hootbro]

Personally, the day I get death wobble is the day I trade it in. I won't put up with that. Not for a $65k vehicle.

Better start shopping. There is enough randomness in road conditions that the issue will present itself eventually.

 

[Murgatroid]

OP, I know your post was not necessarily a "help me solve this post" and was more of a "I want to get this off my chest" post but I'd like to make a real and honest suggestion here.

We've had three pages of debate, diagnosis, etc. but I'm not sure how much we've helped you if you are actually looking for help. As has been mentioned, the steering stabilizer could be the problem but usually isn't and tends to only mask the underlying problem. There are a limited number of things that could cause death wobble and based on what you've said it doesn't sound like the dealership has probably gone through them all.

I dont know how mechanically inclined you are but there are some things you can do to try and diagnose it and at least better arm yourself with information the next time it goes back to the dealership.

1. I'll accept that you're tires are okay and you're alignment are okay since you've addressed those​

2. I'll accept that you're stabilizer is okay since it's been replaced​

SIDENOTE: I used to teach Root Cause Analysis in a Fortune 50 company and there is a problem solving principle called Occam's Razor that essentially says that the simplest solution is usually correct. In this case, since you've addressed tires, alignment and stabilizer, it must be something else.

3. Some mechanical joint in the front end is loose​

a. You could check the tightness of all the bolts in the steering, drag link, tie rod, stabilizer, control arms, knuckles, etc.​

b. One of the above bolts has wobbled out the hole it connects to and can shift under load, so when checking the tightness of the bolts above, try to see if things slip back and forth before you attempt to check the bolt's tightness.​

4. Some mechanical joint has failed, so start wiggling the tie rod, drag link and trackbar rod ends to see if they move too freely because they really shouldn't. Same with the control arm bushings.​

5. You can do "the wiggle test" by jacking the front tires up, one at a time, and attempting to wiggle the entire wheel without turning the wheel. If it wiggles top to bottom (your hands at six and twelve) then it could be a bad ball joint. Sided to side (hands at three and nine) then it could be a wheel bearing.​

​

These are a few easy things you can check to better diagnose the problem and have a more informed conversation with the dealership's service guy. Also, as I recommended in my last post here, you could always take it to an independent offroad shop and have it evaluated. Dealership shops tend to have a "captured audience" and some may not put forth the same effort as a respectable independent who relies on word of mouth and Yelp reviews to build their customer base.

My frustration is that every time, something different has "fixed" it at least till the next time. First the dampener seemed to fix it, then new tires and an alignment seemed to fix it, then just putting on my snow tires seemed to fix it, then putting back on the new tires, last year, and the wobble comes back. This is not modified in any way, using factory rims and tires, with around 60,000 miles of mostly highway, never been off road. I've had vehicles for 15 years and over 200,000 miles that I didn't have to fear hitting bump on the highway with. I've taken it in to the dealer for every maintenance interval. So I don't want to hear about worn out ball joints that should be expected as some posters have mentioned, well engineered ones shouldn't.

 

[Clarkr32]

I got mine driving 65 on the interstate and shook me hard and had to slow down to under 50 to get it to disappear. Dealer rotated tires and replaced my dampener it felt amazing for about 400 miles now my steering sucks above 55. I think it’s an engineering problem too as it never happens as often as jeeps have it. I’m a 21 sport max tow and stock everything underneath

 

[sharpsicle]

My frustration is that every time, something different has "fixed" it at least till the next time. First the dampener seemed to fix it, then new tires and an alignment seemed to fix it, then just putting on my snow tires seemed to fix it, then putting back on the new tires, last year, and the wobble comes back. This is not modified in any way, using factory rims and tires, with around 60,000 miles of mostly highway, never been off road. I've had vehicles for 15 years and over 200,000 miles that I didn't have to fear hitting bump on the highway with. I've taken it in to the dealer for every maintenance interval. So I don't want to hear about worn out ball joints that should be expected as some posters have mentioned, well engineered ones shouldn't.

What is it you're looking for then? We all genuinely want to help, but this post really makes it seem like you just want to attack something you are unfamiliar with, rather than try to fix the underlying issue.

Again, I think you just got a bad luck of the draw on this, but that doesn't mean it isn't fixable. Something happened, but are you interested in finding out what it is? Or do you really "[not] want to hear about worn out ball joints" even if that's a possibility?

 

[HooliganActual]

My frustration is that every time, something different has "fixed" it at least till the next time. First the dampener seemed to fix it, then new tires and an alignment seemed to fix it, then just putting on my snow tires seemed to fix it, then putting back on the new tires, last year, and the wobble comes back. This is not modified in any way, using factory rims and tires, with around 60,000 miles of mostly highway, never been off road. I've had vehicles for 15 years and over 200,000 miles that I didn't have to fear hitting bump on the highway with. I've taken it in to the dealer for every maintenance interval. So I don't want to hear about worn out ball joints that should be expected as some posters have mentioned, well engineered ones shouldn't.

You are exactly right. Well engineered ball joints wouldn’t fail this early and like I said in the second post of this thread, the ball joints they put on these things are crap. They are well engineered, they are just cheaply made. They are consumable just like tires.

So you can sell the vehicle or fix it. The things that have “fixed” to this point weren’t the fix. When a doctor analyzes the symptoms that you walk into his office with, he treats the most probable thing that would cause those symptoms. But just like your Jeep, often times several maladies might present with the same symptoms. You have to diagnose the problem and start eliminating the culprit. So far, you know 3 things that didn’t fix your death wobble. They only masked it for a brief time.

 

[AverageJoe]

Have you had the ball joints checked? The death wobble started with the TJ Wrangler. (I'm quite familiar with the wobble!) I don't believe much has been changed in the front suspension since that time. (But I could be wrong.) The ball joints were weak. In the past, Moog problem solver ball joints fixed my troubles.

 

[Murgatroid]

I've been told that the problem could be fixed by Jeep just by going back to leaf springs. If they are going to use coil, they need to drop the solid axle if they can't cure what I've heard just about every Jeep owner say has happened at some point with their Jeep. All one has to say is death wobble and everyone knows the person has a Jeep, I've never heard of any other brand having a death wobble problem. So yes, my post is just a yell of frustration with Jeep corporation over the first Jeep I've ever owned and looking like the last one.

 

[sharpsicle]

So yes, my post is just a yell of frustration with Jeep corporation over the first Jeep I've ever owned and looking like the last one.

So you're saying...

this is...

The LAST Jeep You'll Ever Own?

No, wait, I've seen this episode before...

 

[sharpsicle]

But back to being serious. This isn't a Jeep-only issue. It happens with any SFA vehicle. Jeeps are just the most mass-produced consumer vehicle with a SFA. So you'll hear about it more just from that fact alone. And I'm willing to bet this is also the first SFA vehicle you've owned.

You can choose to fix it or walk away. If you aren't interested in fixing it, might I suggest an IFS vehicle for your next purchase instead. There are pros and cons to both. You've just experienced a con of the SFA platform.

 

[Jaxmax]

Not all Jeeps have death wobble but some do, our three Jeeps we have had since 2010, have been about the best cars we have had, wife's 2010 JK , had a bent gas tank vent fixed a week after we got it, then went 96,000 mikes with nothing not even brakes. Last two jeeps are going fine, so you have decided to get rid of it instead of having someone check it, it didn't come from the factory with it something changed, sounds like you are done checking. Do what ya have to do.....Jack

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