Death Wobble, DW, Death Wobble, DW, Death Wobble, Shimmy, Wander, Drift, Bump Steer

[Lunentucker]

You may want to clarify that TSB 02-004-21 does not apply to the Mojave.

Confirmed - cast iron knuckles take less ugga-duggas on the ball joints.

I had him pull up the 2023 specs to compare as well.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Confirmed - cast iron knuckles take less ugga-duggas on the ball joints.

I had him pull up the 2023 specs to compare as well.

Yup - nailed it!
There's not only steel and aluminum knuckles, there were two different ball joints used over time.
Mine were screen shots the service advisor at the dealership gave me and unfortunately he didn't know how to really do a screen shot, so took pictures with his phone and we know how well that works sometimes. It was mostly usable, but really fuzzy.
Hey, it was free, so I didn't complain. He was doing me a favor he maybe wasn't supposed to do technically speaking.

 

[jac04]

Thanks for getting this info.

This is an interesting note:
"Once final torque is reached, manually advance the castle nut to the next castle opening for the cotter pin to be inserted, even if the hole is aligned when final torque is reached. "

I don't ever recall seeing a taper-fit castle nut torque stating to advance to the next castle slot even if it is aligned at the specified torque.

@ShadowsPapa , have you ever seen that?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Thanks for getting this info.

This is an interesting note:
"Once final torque is reached, manually advance the castle nut to the next castle opening for the cotter pin to be inserted, even if the hole is aligned when final torque is reached. "

I don't ever recall seeing a taper-fit castle nut torque stating to advance to the next castle slot even if it is aligned at the specified torque.

@ShadowsPapa , have you ever seen that?

I don't recall ever seeing that but now you have me curious so I'm going to hit my books and see if I see that anywhere in the resources on my shelves.........

 

[Toro34]

Apologies for the obvious redundancies in the thread title, but DAYUM!, does anyone search before they post?

One thing I would like to add for you to possibly include on the top post:

If you indeed have Death Wobble, chances are, there is more than one issue in your setup, it is usually best to replace pretty much all your steering pieces/joints/ends at the same time.

DW causes lots of wear in all your components, and any amount of play left in one of the parts, will lead to increased wear in the other joints/ends and result in DW again after time.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Closest thing I can find is some GM steering and suspension specs where they list the torque, for example, tie rod end to steering knuckle spec is 35, then a footnote says "may be tightened to 52 to align cotter pin hole"

One thing I would like to add for you to possibly include on the top post:

If you indeed have Death Wobble, chances are, there is more than one issue in your setup, it is usually best to replace pretty much all your steering pieces/joints/ends at the same time.

DW causes lots of wear in all your components, and any amount of play left in one of the parts, will lead to increased wear in the other joints/ends and result in DW again after time.

Depends on what the actual solution was in a given case.
and
how long was it let go.
If it's solved by alignment - resolved by toe and/or caster, or reversing a component change that led to the DW, then you've replaced no wear parts and you just move on.
If you replace parts and resolve it quickly, I see no reason to replace ALL wear parts.
Check all, yes, torque everything for sure because even one instance of DW can shake things loose, but I'd not blanket statement that if you have DW, you must replace all parts. That doesn't wash with me. There's no reason to say "tie rod ends and drag link now much be replaced" if you experienced DW once or twice, found the offender, resolved it and it is now fine.
Play in one parts doesn't necessarily cause wear in other parts. One bad tie rod end won't wear your ball joints or track bar bushings or even impact your drag link.
In my experience, hands-on, it just doesn't have to be.
Check all - but to blindly replace everything? Naw, not me.

 

[Toro34]

Check all - but to blindly replace everything? Naw, not me.

True, I should have been more clear. I did say 'usually' but as you mentioned, evaluate, check torque and wear first, then spend the hard earned $$ on parts that need replaced

 

[Lunentucker]

I think since I've already cranked mine down to 59+ I'm going to leave them there. It's only been a couple of hundred miles, but it seems like it might be a bad idea to back them down to 48 after they've seated at 59.

 

[Scott Davis]

Carried over from your other post, figued it could be helpful for some...

Nice post, maybe the best post ever.

Great video, that guy has some big clunkers to do that on purpose and keep driving for the sake of the video. Just wish they would of shown clip from inside, showing his hand and steering wheel. You can see his hand through the windshield for a moment.

Thanks for the post, very informative.

I like the subaru pic!
lmao

 

[redman43]

Carried over from your other post, figued it could be helpful for some...

Nice post, maybe the best post ever.

Great video, that guy has some big clunkers to do that on purpose and keep driving for the sake of the video. Just wish they would of shown clip from inside, showing his hand and steering wheel. You can see his hand through the windshield for a moment.

Thanks for the post, very informative.

Slinky! LOL

 

[Mad Mac]

Adjusted my steering box this morning about a quarter turn.
Greatly improved the steering response
and markedly reduced the tendency to wander or drift.
Costs nothing except frazzled nerves.

The teweltalk video gave me the courage to take it on.
Though his was the aluminum box, the process is the same.

My 2021 JT was bought with 16,000 miles on it and 35 inch tires.
It came with the leveling kit which I had already removed.
The drifting was driving me nuts.
I think I will keep it, now.

 

[Mflowers11]

Question for a couple of the seemingly in the know forum members. @ShadowsPapa, @Lunentucker having ongoing issues with wobble. Bought with 4.5k miles with no issues till about 25k, I fact it drove great. No drifting and relatively nice ride until I hit one pothole and boom, wobble/shimmy...

Have personally checked up and down the front steering assembly, torqued all the nuts, ball joints check out, brought it to two shops, one was an off road specialty shop, one came highly recommended from a friend. Both said everything checked out. Thought maybe the RC spacer lift it came with was contributing so I replaced that with a Clayton leveling kit. (Added 2” - 2.5” to my High Altitude but was close to the same as it had always been with the spacer lift when I got it, shortened the upper control arms several times seeing if maybe castor had something to do with it, rotated stock HA tires & had them balanced…. Synergy drag link and a Fox 2.0 TS through shaft steering stabilizer. Even asked both places to take a closer look at the pitman arm. No dice…. Still shaken enough that I made my father-in-law almost shit himself when he though I was being a “kitty”

Has seemed to increase over time but have had everything checked multiple times and found nothing loose.

Typical characteristics, starts over a bridge/bump around 50-60 on up, won’t stop till below 40. Didn’t want to go the bandaide route, but I’m thinking about trying the Metalcloke sector shaft brace and an upgraded stabilizer as a last ditch effort.

LOVE my Jeep but we may need to break up.. Drive a ton for work and have no more dicking around in me so I thought I’d check to see if you think I am missing something...

 

[DailyMoparGuy]

Question for a couple of the seemingly in the know forum members. @ShadowsPapa, @Lunentucker having ongoing issues with wobble. Bought with 4.5k miles with no issues till about 25k, I fact it drove great. No drifting and relatively nice ride until I hit one pothole and boom, wobble/shimmy...

Have personally checked up and down the front steering assembly, torqued all the nuts, ball joints check out, brought it to two shops, one was an off road specialty shop, one came highly recommended from a friend. Both said everything checked out. Thought maybe the RC spacer lift it came with was contributing so I replaced that with a Clayton leveling kit. (Added 2” - 2.5” to my High Altitude but was close to the same as it had always been with the spacer lift when I got it, shortened the upper control arms several times seeing if maybe castor had something to do with it, rotated stock HA tires & had them balanced…. Synergy drag link and a Fox 2.0 TS through shaft steering stabilizer. Even asked both places to take a closer look at the pitman arm. No dice…. Still shaken enough that I made my father-in-law almost shit himself when he though I was being a “kitty”

Has seemed to increase over time but have had everything checked multiple times and found nothing loose.

Typical characteristics, starts over a bridge/bump around 50-60 on up, won’t stop till below 40. Didn’t want to go the bandaide route, but I’m thinking about trying the Metalcloke sector shaft brace and an upgraded stabilizer as a last ditch effort.

LOVE my Jeep but we may need to break up.. Drive a ton for work and have no more dicking around in me so I thought I’d check to see if you think I am missing something...

While you wait for the legends to respond, do you have some alignment numbers that you can post?

I dealt with it too and it sucks. I don’t commute for work so I can only imagine how annoying that shit is for you.

I took a similar route as you to fix it - synergy drag link and fox Ats stabilizer (stabilizer was just a band-aide, not a fix). However, I also replaced the stock tie rod with a synergy one. No idea if that will help you but if you’re willing to throw money at it, then by all means. If that hadn’t worked for me, then the ball joints were going next despite being told they were fine.

I hate hate hate vehicle problems, I would’ve kept throwing paychecks at it as needed. I got lucky with a quick fix though.

Anyways, I hope you’re able to find a solution. Sounds like you love your JT like the rest of us.

 

[Mflowers11]

While you wait for the legends to respond, do you have some alignment numbers that you can post?

I dealt with it too and it sucks. I don’t commute for work so I can only imagine how annoying that shit is for you.

I took a similar route as you to fix it - synergy drag link and fox Ats stabilizer (stabilizer was just a band-aide, not a fix). However, I also replaced the stock tie rod with a synergy one. No idea if that will help you but if you’re willing to throw money at it, then by all means. If that hadn’t worked for me, then the ball joints were going next despite being told they were fine.

I hate hate hate vehicle problems, I would’ve kept throwing paychecks at it as needed. I got lucky with a quick fix though.

Anyways, I hope you’re able to find a solution. Sounds like you love your JT like the rest of us.

The tie rod did it for you even with no movement? Appreciate the legends but I’ll take all the help I can get! Thought I had it a while ago but it came back to haunt.

Money isn’t the issue, time is. I’d throw more money at it in a heartbeat if I thought I’d solve it but I’m ready to take the hit if I have to.

 

[DailyMoparGuy]

The tie rod did it for you even with no movement? Appreciate the legends but I’ll take all the help I can get! Thought I had it a while ago but it came back to haunt.

Money isn’t the issue, time is. I’d throw more money at it in a heartbeat if I thought I’d solve it but I’m ready to take the hit if I have to.

Time was my issue as well. Started up 3 weeks before my move from Texas to Massachusetts. Towed a U-Haul the whole way no issues.

My factory tie rod had some movement but my drag link moved a lot. Never really got a clear answer on if that was okay. New one doesn’t move at all.

I should’ve been more clear in my first post, but I’m not sure which replacement fixed the issue - the synergy tie rod or drag link. I don’t think the ATS stabilizer is masking at this point. I’ve hit the gnarliest of gnarly bumps at highway speeds and while towing. No wobble.

My bet was on the drag link for my issue but I really don’t know. If money isn’t an issue for you, then I’d go for the tie rod next. Shouldn’t cost much in labor. I can’t remember the proper toe numbers (maybe just a tad positive though?), but I think castor should be in the lower-mid +6s range.

Some folks I’m sure don’t agree with the “throw money at it” approach, but I like process of elimination. The way I look at it is if proper alignment, upgraded tie rod, ball joints, track bar, control arms, etc don’t fix it, then maybe solid front axle just ain’t meant to be for me lol.

And hey, if the last upgrade you do works, then you got a mighty fine handling rig after it all.

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