Finally Got My Jeep Back IMPORTANT INFO for DIESEL Owners !!!

[caryt]

Well that's your opinion as its factory..but as a former parts changer not a builder/fabricator I would expect nothing more.

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[Hootbro]

Then it was too loose. Properly clamped can't do that.

To be fair, the frame holes and the control arm bushing sleeves are still inch pattern. Jeep puts in the closest Metric bolt in, but it is more undersized than if they put a proper inch bolt. That is why companies like Synergy offer inch bolt, washer and nut kits for the control arms and track bars to take up that extra spacing and have a tighter fit.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's clamping force that holds things, not the shank.

 

[Hootbro]

It's clamping force that holds things, not the shank.

No shit, there is still torsional load within that an undersize fastener is not doing it any favors.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Yes.
What I see most often including in recent pics is lack of torque/clamping. Stock should be no issue. .
I've never seen such wear in my vehicles or any I have worked on.... Once you get outside stock very far the forces increase. I'd not reuse stock fasteners if making certain mods anyway and some are by design, single use.

 

[Stan H]

My Opinion I think I would have refused the repair .. and fixed the wires myself I would want to know if they completely replaced the wires or soldered or used a butt connectors ? If they didnt completely replace those 5 wires I'd be asking for a reason. I think.. and this is just me so do what ya thinks right. But I would never have paid that.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

Built not bought 6+ jeeps, Early Broncos ect plus countless trucks and cars..for 50 years. No one that's knows a dam about suspension has threads going suspension links or brackets as they will act like a file. Your not going to have issues with 6-8* of Castor.

Here is a couple of pictures of what jeep bolts can do to a stock jeep in 20k miles of street driving.

You post this, and in the video we can see Nitto tires- your signature indicates 38’s and beadlocks…. So you went from 80# stock wheel/tire to 130#’s….

I mean I get your point with full threaded bolts, and agree there were better choices to be made. But, I mean you have to be fair- a stock setup is not going to do what your video depicts….

 

[ShadowsPapa]

For the record - too much caster can indeed cause problems, including the wander you are trying to get rid of. Just ask anyone who has been in alignments for years, or even Motortrend for that matter.

Here's the explanation for non-believers - from an Australian truck site -

motortrend -

There's really no reason to need caster as high as has been mentioned if you are doing other things correctly. If you think you need 7 - you have other problems and are trying to mask it. But it can bite you in the butt with wandering, or shimmy - the very things you are trying to correct.

You post this, and in the video we can see Nitto tires- your signature indicates 38’s and beadlocks…. So you went from 80# stock wheel/tire to 130#’s….

I mean I get your point with full threaded bolts, and agree there were better choices to be made. But, I mean you have to be fair- a stock setup is not going to do what your video depicts…

That one picture is clearly an under-torqued fastener - and to your point, yeah, the weight of those massive tires/wheels and probably other factors, anyone putting stock parts through that without marking and keeping things tight, you will have trouble.
You can see where it wore - and that's under-clamping forces.
I'm not just a parts-swapper - I'm a troubleshooter, forensics, root causes, and factory trained, also having studied the real engineers behind Jeeps, and a real mod expert.
that pic shows a lack of clamping force. And again, to your point, stock parts, not checked after making mods, not good practice.
I could quote a college teacher about certain DIY stuff and "been doing it this way........." but won't.

 

[Vtur]

Built not bought 6+ jeeps, Early Broncos ect plus countless trucks and cars..for 50 years. No one that's knows a dam about suspension has threads going suspension links or brackets as they will act like a file. Your not going to have issues with 6-8* of Castor.

Here is a couple of pictures of what jeep bolts can do to a stock jeep in 20k miles of street driving.

I agreed that shank bolts is the proper way as they are stronger and fits better in the holes, and less likely to comes loose from impacts. All Japanese vehicles that i've had worked on used them.

 

[Vtur]

My Opinion I think I would have refused the repair .. and fixed the wires myself I would want to know if they completely replaced the wires or soldered or used a butt connectors ? If they didnt completely replace those 5 wires I'd be asking for a reason. I think.. and this is just me so do what ya thinks right. But I would never have paid that.

Judging by the harness, i highly doubt it that they replaced the 5 wires, it just not practical with the dealers. Either replace the whole harness or re-splices.

 

[916WI]

I don’t think is the brand at all , it’s just a bad placement from factory , I have a aftermarket front bumper as well .
just wear & tear I guess

I'd be much more inclined to call it bad design from the aftermarket part manufacturer. During their "testing" they had to have known that the tolerances were non-existent.........

 

[Hootbro]

I'd be much more inclined to call it bad design from the aftermarket part manufacturer. During their "testing" they had to have known that the tolerances were non-existent.........

Too many of these companies have the attitude that if it looks good at SEMA, they send it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I agreed that shank bolts is the proper way as they are stronger and fits better in the holes, and less likely to comes loose from impacts. All Japanese vehicles that i've had worked on used them.

Not sure what a shank bolt is but you are likely talking cap screw vs. tap screw vs. fully threaded.
(it's only a bolt if a nut is used to secure it)
Full threaded vs. standard - obviously the fully threaded will have threads along the entire shank to the head, while others will not - but how much is threaded is based on bolt length as well unless it's a fully threaded screw. There's a formula for that.

The unthreaded area is the grip length, the whole bolt other than the head is the shank.
I know - picking nits, but if you are a machinist or worked in a hardware store - it's important. The whole length of the bolt is the shank, threaded or not.

Stock, tightened to factory specs and yeah, that means torque plus angle (TA) tightening, they will be fine (under normal use) but anyone jumping into very large, very heavy tires, lifts and smacking them around off-road should be using new fasteners anyway.
I guess that's part of my issue here - it was brought up that the bolts used were all wrong and caused problems. Not for the many hundreds of thousands of Jeeps out there.
But once you go changing things, now you are bringing into play forces way beyond normal.
For performance you should be not just swapping out arms and bars and such - you should be replacing fasteners.
Even just rebuilding front suspension and steering on a stock vehicle - some are marked single use only. Some are straight torque, some are torque plus angle and some are TTY - torque to yield.
TA is used so you can get the fastener to the "snug point" where all spaces are removed, all parts are against each other and the beginning of "Squeeze", then the angle or degrees is a carefully calculated number of degrees, based on thread pitch and amount of bolt between nut and head, so you get the right amount of stretch in the bolt for proper clamping force.
For some of these it's all about clamping force. Once tight, nothing can move (unless hit hard enough then all bets are off). In those cases, whether or not the bolt shank is fully threaded or standard won't matter - the clamping forces hold it. It matters for sheer or impacts, though.
A fully threaded bolt will sheer more easily due to reduced shank diameter.

So I'm agreeing and sort of not, both - depending on the case/use.
Stock, it's all fine......... As long as it's torqued to specs........... but I see pictures of obviously loose fasteners moving around on the surface of the steel parts and can't blame the bolt.

Go trying to modify it - you might want to look into different fasteners for two reasons -
The stock bolts have already been taken to the edge of plastic
and
you are now recreating things, changing forces, angles and more. Get different bolts.
To try to build a vehicle with big lift and heavy tire and take it to forces beyond original design - but to use the factory bolts - silly.
For performance use you don't always want to use stock fasteners.
I even changed out some of the bolts and nuts on the suspension and steering of my car - because I now have heavy duty disk brakes and much more HP.

Judging by the harness, i highly doubt it that they replaced the 5 wires, it just not practical with the dealers. Either replace the whole harness or re-splices.

They can't buy the individual wires, and trying to make them up would be crazy on their end.
Splicing is also problematic if not done right and sealed well.
Most won't mess with "fixes" - they will replace entire parts. Just not cost effective. And the parts put in have a warranty of their own. Go splicing things and it still not work, then what?
Warranty work they'll never replace bits and pieces or repair wires (unless ordered to by STAR, perhaps). Repairing wiring harnesses requires some judgement on the side of the person doing the work - not sure I'd trust that anyway.

 

[Stan H]

I feel like if these were soldiered and heat shrinking used they would be fine.
But that's the "do it yourselfer" in me. I would have gave it a rip..?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I feel like if these were soldiered and heat shrinking used they would be fine.
But that's the "do it yourselfer" in me. I would have gave it a rip..?

I would on an older vehicle. in this case, you're going to have to unwrap some of that harness, wires split off, change direction and so on. Likely to be really tight (they pull harnesses tight and strap frequently) so how much wire there is and how easily things can be stripped and the wires properly joined, soldered and then a marine grade heat shrink used, you're going to have some bulk - and really tight wires.
Hard to tell how simple it would be based on the pictures here.
But I would not pay a grand to have someone "splice" or just "repair" wires. Besides, that's a stupid price for 5 wires.

Anything under warranty, I'd want new parts. That way no one could say "your repairs are the problem".

So far, none of my Jt wiring has any splices or taps at all. it's all done via connectors and pigtails. No factory wires have been cut or nicked or poked.

Not afraid of electric, it's sort of what I do.

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