Did the value of Gladiators just fall through the floor ???!

[ShadowsPapa]

Like, I see people on this forum and others all the time going into debt to buy a vehicle (which is par for the course unless you have a wad of cash sitting around)

And for that cash - there's still opportunity costs, I think they call it. You could invest it and even conservatively, if you do right, get 4% compared to nothing by purchasing a vehicle with it.
Loan or cash, there are still costs involved in that side of the purchase.
You could make money on the cash, and you pay money for the loan.

As a dealer kbb is really not accurate 95% of the time new car stores use it to take in trades but sell off nada or the new owners of nada I as a dealer use the mmr method which is based of real auction and retail sales. Prices have changed but maybe 5 or 10 % but definitely not that much

When we traded my wife's 2018 Grand Cherokee for a 2021, the dealer must have used something similar to the mmr thing - he literally showed us what 2018 GCs were selling for at dealerships in that area, and other comparables. It was very similar to what some real estate agents do - comparables. He said this is what I can allow you, these are recent trades and sales of vehicles like yours. He was on the high side of the middle of all of those.
It was pretty much impossible to argue with his offer because it was based on real world examples he could point to in that area.
(that dealer - Spencer, up in north Iowa - he proved his numbers with facts)

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[BUZZHEAD]

Read my last reply dude.

I'm not an idiot.

This is not depreciation, this is the equivelant of a stock market crash. I mean we're talking about A WEBSITE ..... just to be clear. A WEBSITE. saying that the top of the line Jeep vehicle is worth less than the base model now.

and like I said in my last post the market and Carfax doesn't seem to support what KBB is saying.

I just got $38,000 for a 2020 ruby with 60,000 miles (on trade )
I see my 2020 their asking $39,900

 

[Jaybre007]

I knew coming into this that paying $52,000 for a Jeep, even if the MSRP was $58,040, was one of the worst financial decisions of my life.

That was August of 2021 and it is now May of 2024.

I owe around $34,000 and the truck is maybe worth that much whole sale. I knew that would happen coming in.

I don’t understand why there are like 6 open threads on why buying a new vehicle wasn’t a good financial investment.

Know what I’ve gained though? 28,000 miles of knowing I’m in the most capable midsize truck money can buy. I’ve towed boats, climbed rocks, hauled hay, sand, rocks, furniture. I’ve been as far east as Texas and as a far north as Boise. Not once did I wonder what I would get for a trade in.

Well said. If you didn't want the vehicle people should not buy the vehicle but lease it. I love mine and yes I owe far more than it's worth and I don't care because no other vehicle I have ever owned put a smile on my face everyday like this one does!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I was in the auto business for 34 years. I was at the zone level and dealer management level. Jeeps have always held better money than most other makes. Even when Jeeps were made by AMC, they still held good money. I believe it had to do with just being the iconic Jeep. Even in England, any 4 x 4 truck is referred to as Jeep. Now if you want to lose money, get a Hyundai ,Kia or other throw away car or truck. Jeeps have their problems, so do all other cars and trucks. I had a 2004 taco trd 4x4, and the frame rusted and they never fixed it . Do all toyo's stink, NO there one of the best cars and trucks made. But all in all ,there is nothing that looks like a Jeep. So anyone who downs them and say's there not worth anything, is full of BS and doesn't know what they're talking about. Period !

Yup.
There's people here restoring and driving those AMC-era Jeeps.
You can't go to a junk yard around here and easily find Jeep parts - people part them privately or fix them - few end up in salvage yards (that's from a salvage yard owner)

If you can read Korean - these pictures are from a high-end auto museum in Korea showing a vehicle that originated by using parts left behind by the US in the "Korean conflict".
They took frames, engines, and so on and built their own vehicles and copied the US Jeep

And this - built by Kia -

 

[foxwalkhq]

Except for the situations in which something awful happens that requires you to make cash - quick, why do you care about the value of your two year old truck?

Like, I see people on this forum and others all the time going into debt to buy a vehicle (which is par for the course unless you have a wad of cash sitting around), and then a couple years later trading it in on a more expensive vehicle and just continuing the cycle every few years.

Do folks like car payments that much? They are depreciating assets. Buy them, drive them, pay them off, and enjoy that sweet spot (between 50k miles and 150,000 miles) where you can drive with no major component failures (typically) and no car payment (assuming you paid it off of course).

Do they hold their value? compared to basically any other vehicle - YES. But they still depreciate, not sure why this is surprising.

Because I'm not rich and in this economy I can't afford to have a vehicle that gets 12/13mpg. And this is stock. If I drive on a highway for 4 hours it will get to 17-18, but generally it's 12/13.

The comment about not being rich is because I can't afford to have more than vehicle. If I didn't have to pay insurance then sure I could do it. So I need one vehicle that does everything I want and doesn't have crappy gas mileage.

The reason this freaked me out is because I'm already underwater on the loan at least in trade ins and I am super close to being able to sell privately. Hearing that the value dropped by like 30k private party is like hearing that your house exploded. I'd be underwater FOREVER.

Like I said I did 6 years of research now I ain't gonna go into all that again but much of that was talking to people, watching YouTube videos, etc.

And everybody said that the Gladiator is powerful enough.. You can but 35s, 37s, no problem.. Gas mileage was always said to be way better than what I'm getting. 16/19 etc. These guys confidently say "yeah I get " and it was much better MPG than I'm getting..

When I get the truck and I'm already all in on it, none of these things are true, at least for me.. The reality for me is that since I was laid off of the high paying job I can't afford to drive it because of the gas costs.

And I'm terrified to do anything to the truck that makes it heavier because the power will get worse. I tried to trade it in for a Diesel a few months after I bought it but of course "It's too soon.. they don't want let you trade it in too soon."

At that point I wasn't underwater, it would be fine.. Then Jeep decided "Hey we're getting rid of the Diesel" so I'd have to find a Diesel specced out like I wanted.. Jeep talked about the inline 6 turbo but never released it.

At that point I lost interest TBH. It's literally impossible to get exactly what I want from Jeep without paying $80k ($100k) now but then the MPG is absolute horrendous.

I'm gonna say this because I don't want to be on the receiving end of being called an idiot again. I was making A LOT more money when I bought the Jeep. And pretty much the sweet spot of I can live my life and everything's great. And then I got laid off and I could not get rid of either vehicle because I was underwater on both.

I could easily afford both payments and still have thousands left over after paying all my bills. So please don't come at me with more "You did it wrong" "You made a horrible financial decision"

The only thing I did wrong was putting my financial well being in the hands of an employer.

"Do they hold their value? compared to basically any other vehicle - YES. But they still depreciate, not sure why this is surprising."

I don't understand why it's not understood that I saw that my vehicle according to KBB dropped in value $30k. I have the top of the line, the Rubicon. It's one year old. 11,000 miles. Yes i know it depreciates. but not crashing rock bottom.

And just to clarify.. I don't mean the price dropped to 30k. I mean dropped BY 30k. (again according to KBB)

 

[LouisvEarlleJT]

...

Got it. It sounds like you fall into the category of something awful happening, and that truly sucks.

Values will stabilize and also continue to ebb and flow. If you have to get out of it then you have to basically just guess at when that best time is.

That being said, being underwater on two vehicles is worse than one, so that's probably your first step.

 

[foxwalkhq]

I just got $38,000 for a 2020 ruby with 60,000 miles (on trade )
I see my 2020 their asking $39,900

This sounds about right coz a while back I was offered $40,000 trade in for mine at a Ford dealership, and $35k at Jeep dealership.. Interesting coz someone here said that they pay more at Jeep dealers.

Many people here have said KBB shouldn't be taken seriously/trusted.

But wow.. that's very interesting they put it up for sale at only a $2000 profit. I wonder if this is usually what they do or just that dealership.

Got it. It sounds like you fall into the category of something awful happening, and that truly sucks.

Values will stabilize and also continue to ebb and flow. If you have to get out of it then you have to basically just guess at when that best time is.

That being said, being underwater on two vehicles is worse than one, so that's probably your first step.

I think I'm gonna sell it. privately. I need to get it down a bit. And then after I sell it I can use what I was paying as a car payment to drop my credit cards down below 30% utilization.. Perhaps even pay down the other vehicle a bit so I can sell it (it's really close as well) and then trade it in. Probably for nothing since it's worth like $7-$8k private party I'm sure trade in will be less.

Unfortunately not for a Jeep.. Once my business gets off the ground I'll probably get a 2 door Wrangler. Maybe a JK. I always seemed to have a thing for the JKs.

But as it stands now I need to get one vehicle that does everything I need.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Because I'm not rich and in this economy I can't afford to have a vehicle that gets 12/13mpg. And this is stock. If I drive on a highway for 4 hours it will get to 17-18, but generally it's 12/13.

The comment about not being rich is because I can't afford to have more than vehicle. If I didn't have to pay insurance then sure I could do it. So I need one vehicle that does everything I want and doesn't have crappy gas mileage.

The reason this freaked me out is because I'm already underwater on the loan at least in trade ins and I am super close to being able to sell privately. Hearing that the value dropped by like 30k private party is like hearing that your house exploded. I'd be underwater FOREVER.

Like I said I did 6 years of research now I ain't gonna go into all that again but much of that was talking to people, watching YouTube videos, etc.

And everybody said that the Gladiator is powerful enough.. You can but 35s, 37s, no problem.. Gas mileage was always said to be way better than what I'm getting.

My experience is I'm terrified to do anything to the truck that makes it heavier because the power will get worse. I tried to trade it in for a Diesel a few months after I bought it but of course "It's too soon.. they don't want let you trade it in too soon."

At that point I wasn't underwater, it would be fine.. Then Jeep decided "Hey we're getting rid of the Diesel" so I'd have to find a Diesel specced out like I wanted.. Jeep talked about the inline 6 turbo but never released it.

At that point I lost interest TBH. It's literally impossible to get exactly what I want from Jeep without paying $80k ($100k) now but then the MPG is absolute horrendous.

I'm gonna say this because I don't want to be on the receiving end of being called an idiot again. I was making A LOT more money when I bought the Jeep. And pretty much the sweet spot of I can live my life and everything's great. And then I got laid off and I could not get rid of either vehicle because I was underwater on both.

I could easily afford both payments and still have thousands left over after paying all my bills. So please don't come at me with more "You did it wrong" "You made a horrible financial decision"

The only thing I did wrong was putting my financial well being in the hands of an employer.

"Do they hold their value? compared to basically any other vehicle - YES. But they still depreciate, not sure why this is surprising."

I don't understand why it's not understood that I saw that my vehicle according to KBB dropped in value $30k. I have the top of the line, the Rubicon. It's one year old. 11,000 miles. Yes i know it depreciates. but not crashing rock bottom.

Gotta ask - you mention putting 35s on - that's not about power, that's about looks for many, need for offroading for the rest.
Do you need a Rubicon? Or could a different level do just as well for your needs (not wants, not desires, not dressing it up to satisfy what others think a Jeep should look like)
I was fine with Overland. I don't care that others thought it was for the mall and it looked sissy without 35" tires on it. Who cares? I figured - i could always add to it later if I wanted (note the term ' wanted')
I didn't really "need" much of anything on it - other than better tires for our winters and heavier springs because as I get older, sitting on an open lawn tractor moving snow little by little wasn't cutting it and hey, this JEEP can do that!

As far as finances - my wife has always been of the type - get as long a loan term as possible - if you could stretch it out 7 years, do it - but base the numbers on "could you afford it if it was a 4 or 5 year loan? If not, we can't afford it.
So we buy on the basis of being able to afford it if the loan was a short term, but buy it on the long term. Then you make payments as if it's a 4 year or 5 year loan. That way if the worst happens - and it did several years ago, I was laid off from a nice job with good pay - we fell back on the lower longer term payments. 22 months later when I got a job, we went back to the higher payments. (Everyone said I was over-qualified, I'd find something else and leave them after a few months)

If there was a raise (few and far between when I worked for state government - the governor hated unions) if it wasn't necessary money - it got put away.

I drove a $500 VW bunny for a while - with busted spider-webbed windshield, expanding spray foam filling holes in the floor, it was a mess - but it was dirt cheap to drive and it ran great.

Anyway, there's so many ways to look at all of this - and of course, when the economy is all messed up after covid, no one wants to work in an office or factory - everyone wants to use the internet for their income (look at the explosion of dot com companies on the TV ads - bras, jeans, home fragrance devices, whole body deodorants, sit back and make money selling stuff online - no one will go to work for another person in another building these days)
Companies are struggling to get help. there are STILL shortages of goods and services, it's still a crazy mixed up up-side-down world out there. A new reality - there is no going back to what we thought was normal. It's GONE.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

But wow.. that's very interesting they put it up for sale at only a $2000 profit. I wonder if this is usually what they do or just that dealership.

Most trades like that go to auction around here. Only the low miles stuff, within a couple of model years or so stay at the dealerships.
I was told outright twice by dealers - we keep yours and sell them as CPO vehicles, the rest go to auction.
Why? Because of the lower miles, only 3 years old, and the extreme care and good conditions. Very few end up being sold by the dealership on one of their own lots.

i find it really extremely odd that he traded in a 2020 with that many miles and the dealership kept and sold it. Never happen here - never. They go to buyers or auctions. Some have buyers come in and buy what they take in on trade, but a 2020 with 60K miles would never stay on a lot here. No way.

 

[foxwalkhq]

It's interesting you should say this, because this was my experience as well.

Now I will say I got the Rubicon because there was something that I could only get with the Rubicon.. I can't remember what it was.

I was looking at the Overland before but there was something I couldn't add as an option.

But yeah I learned pretty quickly when I discovered just how capable the truck was without using lockers or swaybar disconnect.

And yeah, when I was talking about 35s and 37s I wasn't talking about getting them for power, I was talking about the power needed to turn them. As you know bigger tires are harder to turn, drain gas mileage etc. and without a re-gear (which is expensive) you won't get the stock performance, if you can get it at all.

The way that Jeep does things isn't very compatible with what I want. I don't want much. The only absolute must haves for me are:

- leather seats (i despise cloth with a passion)
- premium radio

Can't think of anything else right now but those are main ones.. When I first started looking you couldn't get the 8.4 radio in the Sport S (I believe) .. later on they added the ability to, and you couldn't get leather seats unless you got at least the Overland. At first.. now they changed it.

When I test drove the Gladiator I drove one that has those leather seats with the 7 slot grille logo ... as well as the factory leather seats (that have Overland, Rubicon, etc. stitched in the back).. The 7 slot grille ones are not as comfortable.

And the dealer can do the Katzkin upgrade so I could get a Sport S with max tow package.. but the dealer told me the katzkin seats wouldn't say Rubicon on them. Which is weird coz Katzkin can do whatever you want, but *shrugs*

That sounds like a pretty good way to go about it (use shorter term loan as a guide).

When it comes to work now I think you can make so much more money working for yourself. I work as a web developer and the companies that pay $160k and up they pretty much want to work you like a slave dog. Your life HAS to be work and work for THEM not you.

I haven't found a job above $110k that's just a normal do your work and call it a day job.

In contrast I know freelancers that are getting paid $5000-$10,000 per website and do like 4 of them a month. And I get to choose the tools I use, so I can use the best stuff. You have 100% control.

I think that's why people want to do Internet work. It is way more profitable to market your skills freelance to people on the Internet than work a job getting paid scraps of what the company makes.

Gotta ask - you mention putting 35s on - that's not about power, that's about looks for many, need for offroading for the rest.
Do you need a Rubicon? Or could a different level do just as well for your needs (not wants, not desires, not dressing it up to satisfy what others think a Jeep should look like)
I was fine with Overland. I don't care that others thought it was for the mall and it looked sissy without 35" tires on it. Who cares? I figured - i could always add to it later if I wanted (note the term ' wanted')
I didn't really "need" much of anything on it - other than better tires for our winters and heavier springs because as I get older, sitting on an open lawn tractor moving snow little by little wasn't cutting it and hey, this JEEP can do that!

As far as finances - my wife has always been of the type - get as long a loan term as possible - if you could stretch it out 7 years, do it - but base the numbers on "could you afford it if it was a 4 or 5 year loan? If not, we can't afford it.
So we buy on the basis of being able to afford it if the loan was a short term, but buy it on the long term. Then you make payments as if it's a 4 year or 5 year loan. That way if the worst happens - and it did several years ago, I was laid off from a nice job with good pay - we fell back on the lower longer term payments. 22 months later when I got a job, we went back to the higher payments. (Everyone said I was over-qualified, I'd find something else and leave them after a few months)

If there was a raise (few and far between when I worked for state government - the governor hated unions) if it wasn't necessary money - it got put away.

I drove a $500 VW bunny for a while - with busted spider-webbed windshield, expanding spray foam filling holes in the floor, it was a mess - but it was dirt cheap to drive and it ran great.

Anyway, there's so many ways to look at all of this - and of course, when the economy is all messed up after covid, no one wants to work in an office or factory - everyone wants to use the internet for their income (look at the explosion of dot com companies on the TV ads - bras, jeans, home fragrance devices, whole body deodorants, sit back and make money selling stuff online - no one will go to work for another person in another building these days)
Companies are struggling to get help. there are STILL shortages of goods and services, it's still a crazy mixed up up-side-down world out there. A new reality - there is no going back to what we thought was normal. It's GONE.

Uh huh. Yep. That's where they said it would go. To auction.

Interesting.

Most trades like that go to auction around here. Only the low miles stuff, within a couple of model years or so stay at the dealerships.
I was told outright twice by dealers - we keep yours and sell them as CPO vehicles, the rest go to auction.
Why? Because of the lower miles, only 3 years old, and the extreme care and good conditions. Very few end up being sold by the dealership on one of their own lots.

i find it really extremely odd that he traded in a 2020 with that many miles and the dealership kept and sold it. Never happen here - never. They go to buyers or auctions. Some have buyers come in and buy what they take in on trade, but a 2020 with 60K miles would never stay on a lot here. No way.

 

[foxwalkhq]

Yeah opportunity costs is what you're paying in missed opportunities, missed income, missed gains, from taking any given action.

In this case by purchasing the car cash you're missing the opportunity to put that money into the an investment etc.

This gets into finance vs. lease.. Some people say don't buy lease.

The other thing is the net worth thing.. So if you finance a $65k car then you're in the hole for $65k and even if you have $100,000 saved up your net worth is still only $35k.

But then there's using financing as leverage. If you have the money to buy in cash but there's those opportunity costs where you could invest in something that will make you more money.

Certain people (Grant Cardone heh) would say to not buy anything that is not an asset until you can pay for it with money that COMES from assets.

So until you could pay for the monthly payment for your financed vehicle 100% from say rent from a property you own don't do it.

For me this lifestyle (overlanding) is different.. coz you need the vehicle to be able to do it, so just buy the vehicle. At least, like someone else said, this is Jeep which keeps its resale value pretty well..

I wouldn't recommend buying a new car of anything other than Jeep or Toyota.

And for that cash - there's still opportunity costs, I think they call it. You could invest it and even conservatively, if you do right, get 4% compared to nothing by purchasing a vehicle with it.
Loan or cash, there are still costs involved in that side of the purchase.
You could make money on the cash, and you pay money for the loan.

 

[RubiAR]

I just saw a '21 JTR similar to my own with 29K miles for $42K. It makes me cringe that even I can admit that's prob asking too much.

Ah, found it again:

https://www.reuberauto.com/used/Jee...MIxJb4p9CchgMV8TcIBR1DEQOnEAQYASABEgKbE_D_BwE

 

[MTB58]

Anytime manufacturers discount new car pricing, used car pricing suffers. Just ask ford. I got over 24% off my 2023 gladiator and KBB shows that i am already 5k under what I paid for it. The last 3 to 4 years of used car pricing was an anomaly and not likely to ever happen again.

 

[aldo98229]

I just checked the value of my Gladiator by VIN on KBB.com and it said $22,000-$30,000 for private party?????????????????!!!!

Is KBB smoking some powerful mind altering drugs or is this true????

Sounds completely insane..

Just last month I had it appraised for $35k at one dealership and $40k at another for trade in.

Well, that is one of the unintended consequences of offering 15% off MSRP for months on end.

I got 26% off MSRP late last year: MSRP was $67,555; I paid $49,995.

Stellantis's stupidity is decimating customers' resales values.

 

[Artsifrtsi]

Like I said I did 6 years of research now I ain't gonna go into all that again but much of that was talking to people, watching YouTube videos, etc.

Sounds like you did the wrong research for those 6 years...

I bought mine in March 2020, after researching for 6 months. I knew exactly which model, what options, and even down to what color... and why I wanted all that. So after 2 months into the china virus lockdowns, we saw dealers wanted to deal, banks wanted to lend, so we bought. $12k off sticker price, and 3.5% interest...

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