Long Arm-Mid Arm VS Long Arm-Triangulated 4 Link

[RodRecket]

So I am getting to the point with my build that I'm tackling trails (Holy Cross CO, Kane Creek, Moab, etc.) that are pushing the limits of the AEV 2.5 lift. I'll admit that I have snagged myself on the drop brackets hard enough that I'm considering changing up my lift methodology. I love the ride of the AEV but it's time to gain some clearance. Here are my thoughts:

1. Swap my front control arms to metalcloak long arms: MC LONG ARMS I already have a complete set of metalcloack arms and really like them. In this scenario I leave the springs and shocks but ditch the drop brackets for a long arm in front and leave the rear alone. Pretty cost effective for me and less work.

2. Full swap to RockKrawler Silverback long arm/triangulated 4-link: RK SILVERBACK I have read a lot of positive reviews of the triangulated 4link and am intrigued by the lack of track bar. Quite a bit more expensive and a total suspension replacement.

For reference I have rockjock steering and rear swaybar, RCVs/chromoly rear axles, and 38s on beadlocks.

Anyone have a set up like this? What's your opinion? THIS IS MY DD, a huge consideration as well.

Pic, because everyone likes those more than reading:

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[Zachanadandy]

The rear is massively improved just by adding in the rear triangulated upper kit from rock krawler and that's very cost effective. I'm happy with the drop brackets on both my JT mojave with 2" lift and 37s and the wife's JLUR with 3.5" lift and 39s. We mostly use hers in the rocks, so it might be the extra clearance but we never get hung up on the brackets.

 

[RodRecket]

The rear is massively improved just by adding in the rear triangulated upper kit from rock krawler and that's very cost effective. I'm happy with the drop brackets on both my JT mojave with 2" lift and 37s and the wife's JLUR with 3.5" lift and 39s. We mostly use hers in the rocks, so it might be the extra clearance but we never get hung up on the brackets.

Are you running the triangulated upper kit on your rig?

I've been running the AEV lift with their brackets on 2 JTs for 4 years and have been very happy with how it performs, BUT this year I have gotten significantly stuck twice on the brackets. Once on Holy Cross that got pretty dicey and required winching and a lot of stacking rock. I'm tackling more difficult trails and I think it's finally time for a change.

I'm hoping a longarm front end will give me similar on road manners without the ground clearance deficit. I like the relatively low lift height on my DD, but then every bit of ground clearance really matters off road.

I haven't been able to find much on the Silverback lift from RK, but a lot of people seem happy with the rear set up.

 

[drewcnit]

I'm on the 4.5" Adventure X Pro kit from RK, which is Mid-Arm front, 4 link rear. Initial impressions so far is it's super stable and flexes really well.
Plan on going Long Arm fronts whenever I make another change, which is basically the Silverback kit, so that would be my recommendation out of the options you listed.
The 4 link rear is just really smooth on the trails and road and my gladiator feels firmly planted when on and off road.
Few pics playing on Rocky Road at SMORR and some other trails -

Check out that rear droop...

Wish I had a picture or video of me coming through rocker knocker above from the bed side, in the above photo you can see the rear is still fairly level even though I'm really flexy in front.

Some shots from posing it on the flex ramp when the lift was installed -

For reference, the flex ramp I was on 37s, SMORR pics I was on 40s.

Totally think you will love the silverback kit if you go that route.

 

[RodRecket]

I'm on the 4.5" Adventure X Pro kit from RK, which is Mid-Arm front, 4 link rear. Initial impressions so far is it's super stable and flexes really well.
Plan on going Long Arm fronts whenever I make another change, which is basically the Silverback kit, so that would be my recommendation out of the options you listed.
The 4 link rear is just really smooth on the trails and road and my gladiator feels firmly planted when on and off road.
Few pics playing on Rocky Road at SMORR and some other trails -

Check out that rear droop...

Wish I had a picture or video of me coming through rocker knocker above from the bed side, in the above photo you can see the rear is still fairly level even though I'm really flexy in front.

Some shots from posing it on the flex ramp when the lift was installed -

For reference, the flex ramp I was on 37s, SMORR pics I was on 40s.

Totally think you will love the silverback kit if you go that route.

Appreciate the feedback. Are you daily driving your rig/ever tow with it? Do you have the Adventure series joints?

My gut is pointing me to a total suspension gut and go 3" RK Silverback, but I like doing my research first. Thanks in advance

 

[drewcnit]

Appreciate the feedback. Are you daily driving your rig/ever tow with it? Do you have the Adventure series joints?

My gut is pointing me to a total suspension gut and go 3" RK Silverback, but I like doing my research first. Thanks in advance

I daily drive it, but full disclosure I work from home... so it's my around town/errands vehicle during the week and play toy on the weekends. It handled 1200+ miles from TN to Kansas and back chasing badges at 70+ the whole way just fine. No towing, I don't have a hitch anymore since I bobbed the bed. And yes to the adventure series joints, I wanted the less maintenance.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

Interesting WFO long arm isn’t mentioned.
There are a lot of good arguments and a few different directions to go here. I won’t bash the drop brackets because they get a lot of love on this forum… personally I’d look at kits that cut the factory brackets and bring them to high clearance with the frame rails…
I will be going WFO- you might look into them and like them as well

 

[RodRecket]

Interesting WFO long arm isn’t mentioned.
There are a lot of good arguments and a few different directions to go here. I won’t bash the drop brackets because they get a lot of love on this forum… personally I’d look at kits that cut the factory brackets and bring them to high clearance with the frame rails…
I will be going WFO- you might look into them and like them as well

There are quite a few brands offering a long arm, only 2 (RK and Rustys) that I'm aware of, triangulate the rear control arms.

I'm specifically picking metal cloak for the front long arms because I already have all 8 of their mid arms. I'd only have to swap the fronts and I'd leave the rest of my suspension alone.

If I went RK or maybe Rustys it's because I'm able to get both long arms up front and a triangulate rear control arm set up. This would be a wholesale suspension swap.

I think the AEV lift and brackets are great and would work for 90% of JT owners. But when you start getting into hardcore rock crawling I'm finding their limits.

 

[hjdca]

So I am getting to the point with my build that I'm tackling trails (Holy Cross CO, Kane Creek, Moab, etc.) that are pushing the limits of the AEV 2.5 lift. I'll admit that I have snagged myself on the drop brackets hard enough that I'm considering changing up my lift methodology. I love the ride of the AEV but it's time to gain some clearance. Here are my thoughts:

1. Swap my front control arms to metalcloak long arms: MC LONG ARMS I already have a complete set of metalcloack arms and really like them. In this scenario I leave the springs and shocks but ditch the drop brackets for a long arm in front and leave the rear alone. Pretty cost effective for me and less work.

2. Full swap to RockKrawler Silverback long arm/triangulated 4-link: RK SILVERBACK I have read a lot of positive reviews of the triangulated 4link and am intrigued by the lack of track bar. Quite a bit more expensive and a total suspension replacement.

For reference I have rockjock steering and rear swaybar, RCVs/chromoly rear axles, and 38s on beadlocks.

Anyone have a set up like this? What's your opinion? THIS IS MY DD, a huge consideration as well.

Pic, because everyone likes those more than reading:

Nice pics, thanks ! I also run a lot of tough trails. With our long wheel base, I also agree that drop brackets are problematic. I run a 3.5" Clayton kit with 37s and I still scrape the rear control arm brackets at trails like The Rubicon trail, and The Big Bear badge of honor trails. I run control arm bracket skids, & shock skids all the way around and diff skids - plus engine & tranny skid. I also got sick of bending rear sway bar links and run a Rock Jock anitirock rear sway bar. On the really tough trails, no matter what you do to a Gladiator, short of 40s or 42s, armoring up the control arm brackets is a good move. I cannot tell you how many times I have hit my rear control arm skids with black touch up paint. I am on my third can of AEV Touch Up Paint - 12oz Black Textured (includes sliders painting, and other skids).

Note: if you get rid of your drop brackets, a tight front end can counter act the loss of optimal geometry. So, great tight joints on your tie rod, drag link can help alot.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Are you running the triangulated upper kit on your rig?

I've been running the AEV lift with their brackets on 2 JTs for 4 years and have been very happy with how it performs, BUT this year I have gotten significantly stuck twice on the brackets. Once on Holy Cross that got pretty dicey and required winching and a lot of stacking rock. I'm tackling more difficult trails and I think it's finally time for a change.

I'm hoping a longarm front end will give me similar on road manners without the ground clearance deficit. I like the relatively low lift height on my DD, but then every bit of ground clearance really matters off road.

I haven't been able to find much on the Silverback lift from RK, but a lot of people seem happy with the rear set up.

I just installed the triangulated rear uppers on the JT. On road it is amazing how much smoother it is over bumps. Haven't got to wheel it yet. The stock setup leaves a lot to be desired as the uppers are way to short. The long lowers and short uppers make for huge pinion angle changes throughout suspension travel. The new uppers are 24.5" long vs the stock 16.5". Now the axle travels up and down without the side to side head toss from the track bar and the pinion doesn't dive due to the short uppers. Win all the way around.

 

[Zachanadandy]

I don't think the wheelbase has any effect on hitting the front drop brackets personally. I think it's tire placement more than anything. At that same point a long arm will likely be every bit as low. Now granted it will be an angled arm and will slide on obstacles far better than the drop brackets but I don't think you'll gain as much clearance as you think. The arm being longer and flatter makes for great ride and flex, but it still attaches just above frame height way back at the cross member and runs at an angle down to the axle. Mid arms will always have more ground clearance than long arms for that reason.

 

[RodRecket]

Nice pics, thanks ! I also run a lot of tough trails. With our long wheel base, I also agree that drop brackets are problematic. I run a 3.5" Clayton kit with 37s and I still scrape the rear control arm brackets at trails like The Rubicon trail, and The Big Bear badge of honor trails. I run control arm bracket skids, & shock skids all the way around and diff skids - plus engine & tranny skid. I also got sick of bending rear sway bar links and run a Rock Jock anitirock rear sway bar. On the really tough trails, no matter what you do to a Gladiator, short of 40s or 42s, armoring up the control arm brackets is a good move. I cannot tell you how many times I have hit my rear control arm skids with black touch up paint. I am on my third can of AEV Touch Up Paint - 12oz Black Textured (includes sliders painting, and other skids).

Note: if you get rid of your drop brackets, a tight front end can counter act the loss of optimal geometry. So, great tight joints on your tie rod, drag link can help alot.

Oh yea, those rear upper frame side control arm bracket skids are worth their weight in gold.

 

[RodRecket]

I just installed the triangulated rear uppers on the JT. On road it is amazing how much smoother it is over bumps. Haven't got to wheel it yet. The stock setup leaves a lot to be desired as the uppers are way to short. The long lowers and short uppers make for huge pinion angle changes throughout suspension travel. The new uppers are 24.5" long vs the stock 16.5". Now the axle travels up and down without the side to side head toss from the track bar and the pinion doesn't dive due to the short uppers. Win all the way around.

Good to hear how much you like the triangulated rear on the road, it's still where my JT spends most of its time. I really think smoothing out the side to side motion will help immensely on those long bumpy trail days too.

 

[RodRecket]

I don't think the wheelbase has any effect on hitting the front drop brackets personally. I think it's tire placement more than anything. At that same point a long arm will likely be every bit as low. Now granted it will be an angled arm and will slide on obstacles far better than the drop brackets but I don't think you'll gain as much clearance as you think. The arm being longer and flatter makes for great ride and flex, but it still attaches just above frame height way back at the cross member and runs at an angle down to the axle. Mid arms will always have more ground clearance than long arms for that reason.

I going to disagree with this. Have you ever gone over a rock, landed on your frame and then had to back up to place your rig in a different spot for the next obstacle? That has happened to me more than once now and what has stopped me from being able to back up enough to reposition a tire is the drop bracket/LCA. I would still hit a long arm control arm but it would at least allow me to slide up instead of ramming in to a 90 degree corner.

I have all 8 MC mid arms. I could just get rid of the brackets, but I like way my rig rides on the road and I don't want to compromise that as much as possible. I think long arms will provide almost as good of geometry as brackets while providing better ground clearance.

 

[Escape.idiocracy]

There are quite a few brands offering a long arm, only 2 (RK and Rustys) that I'm aware of, triangulate the rear control arms.

I'm specifically picking metal cloak for the front long arms because I already have all 8 of their mid arms. I'd only have to swap the fronts and I'd leave the rest of my suspension alone.

If I went RK or maybe Rustys it's because I'm able to get both long arms up front and a triangulate rear control arm set up. This would be a wholesale suspension swap.

I think the AEV lift and brackets are great and would work for 90% of JT owners. But when you start getting into hardcore rock crawling I'm finding their limits.

https://www.wfoconcepts.com/i-30505...ront-mid-arm-rear-suspension-upgrade-kit.html

vs
https://metalcloak.com/jt-gladiator-3-5-four-link-long-arm-suspension-system.html

I understand/can see the value in being able to upgrade from where you are at. I do think that the WFO gives a stronger front by integrating the control arms into their reinforced cross member.

The metal cloak does at least bring the brackets up to frame height which should help with hang-ups.

Should be fun when you’re done

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