My absolute nightmare Jeep Gladiator Experience over the last 20 months

[adamjedgar]

I have to wonder - if the impeller is not tight on the shaft, did you not notice detonation? Or odd water temperatures?

That is a really interesting point/question.

After I left Sydney the car travelled about 2 hours before the temperature suddenly went through the roof...there was absolutely zero warning

there had been no unusual predetonation I could hear, engine appeared normal and had been travelling without issue.

In the 2 years I've owned the car and travelled 50k km, not once has the engine temp changed from normal under any circumstance...whether driving on the road or 4wd'ing in mud or on the beach.

Because no water was leaking externally (although i could smell "hot coolant"), my first thought was a blown headgasket or cracked head.

I'm still suspicious about the water pump though, I can't see how a mechanic changing it off the old engine onto the new "long block" wouldn't have checked it and/or noticed if it was stuffed?

Do you guys think that there's a chance that I'm being fed bullshit because they are short staffed? Ive heard the mechanic who originally started my engine change was also leaving(due to dealership having gone broke and is closing down in 4weeks).

One thing I've really noticed about service centres these days...honesty is almost non existent...so I'm

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[adamjedgar]

If I was him AND I lived down there and used the @#$% out of it like is being done, I'd be trading for a Toyota......

I could but won't elaborate - not here.

My wife and I also own a 6 cylinder 105 series and a V8 200 series Landcruiser.

Whilst reliability of the 200 is way superior to the Jeep, I wouldnt say its a better 4wd. 200's setup for touring are renowned for doing front left CV's and easier to do panel damage on trails. I like the narrow cabin on the Jeep...far less likely to do panel damage on the trails.

I also like the low profile roofline on the JL/JT's, the fact it has drain plugs and can eaaily be hosed out, alternator is set high on the engine...it has some significant advantages over other cars for 4wding.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

although i could smell "hot coolant"

I smelled “hot” coolant on mine too for 1 solid year and couldn’t for the life of me, find it. I searched all over, would keep topping it up and even pulled the rad fan and grill out to have a good look at the rad and hose it clean. I would smell it again and wouldn’t you know…it was leaking at a place I didn’t look, and it was dripping down onto the exhaust and the smell was just always there. Check the hose connection on the bottom side of your coolant bottle. The connection bit that connects to the bottle was my problem and it was evident it was leaking. Upon further inspection, the O ring in the connection had a flat spot and wasn’t sealing, it wasn’t gushing either, just small drips.

 

[Rusty PW]

In my time spinning wrenches. I've seen 3 water pumps fail. One was the impeller was eroded away. High mileage engine. The second one was that the impeller was loose on the shaft. The 3rd one pulled my hair. When cold, the coolant flowed like it should. Once hot, it stopped flowing. When cold, the impeller was tight on the shaft. Soon as the engine came up to temp. The impeller got loose, and quit spinning.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

In my time spinning wrenches. I've seen 3 water pumps fail. One was the impeller was eroded away. High mileage engine. The second one was that the impeller was loose on the shaft. The 3rd one pulled my hair. When cold, the coolant flowed like it should. Once hot, it stopped flowing. When cold, the impeller was tight on the shaft. Soon as the engine came up to temp. The impeller got loose, and quit spinning.

Yeah, it happens. Not real common, usually they fail in other ways.
IF the impeller was eroded away, there were some other things going on there as well.......
I've got a TSB about similar things from the 1970s talking about erosion of parts like that. It's abnormal.

I smelled “hot” coolant on mine too for 1 solid year and couldn’t for the life of me, find it. I searched all over, would keep topping it up and even pulled the rad fan and grill out to have a good look at the rad and hose it clean. I would smell it again and wouldn’t you know…it was leaking at a place I didn’t look, and it was dripping down onto the exhaust and the smell was just always there. Check the hose connection on the bottom side of your coolant bottle. The connection bit that connects to the bottle was my problem and it was evident it was leaking. Upon further inspection, the O ring in the connection had a flat spot and wasn’t sealing, it wasn’t gushing either, just small drips.

Your pics show something that is too often brushed off - traces of deposits that should not have any. Any time you see stains or traces like in those pictures, there is a leak.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Your pics show something that is too often brushed off - traces of deposits that should not have any. Any time you see stains or traces like in those pictures, there is a leak.

The drips that fall from that connector hit the frame and steering shaft and a harness. The splash will then also hit the exhaust.

 

[adamjedgar]

I

finally got my Gladiator back after the new engine was installed.
Now it's:

1. quiet when its starts...no more timing chain rattle
2. Drives like a dream...auto downshifts straight away, no more loading engine up then dropping back 3 gears and reving its head off, like it used too.

I can't believe the old engine was soo bad.

What really passes me off about this is that service staff had been trying to make me believe for about a year now that nothing was wrong with the old engine.

With the new engine they also had to replace a cataylictic converter on the same side that had the excessive carbon build up in cylinders at 36,000km that required heads to be removed and cleaned.

It's like I've got a different car now.

In the future there is no way I will accept the kind of bullshit that I was spun when I noticed problems. The idea that mechanics spun bullshit so they didn't have to face what quickly became significant issues with the car is bordering on criminal...it was that behaviour that eventually stuffed my engine.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I

finally got my Gladiator back after the new engine was installed.
Now it's:

1. quiet when its starts...no more timing chain rattle
2. Drives lime a dream...auto downshifts straight away, no more loading engine up then dropping back 3 gears and reving its head off, like it used too.

I can't believe the old engine was soon bad.

What really passes me off about this is that service staff had been trying to make me believe for about a year now that nothing was wrong with the old engine.

With the new engine they also had to replace a cataylictic converter oj sake side that had the excessive carbon build up in cylinders at 36,000km that required heads to be removed and cleaned.

It's like I've got a different car now.

In the future there is no way I will accept the kind of bullshit that I was spun when I noticed problems. The idea that mechanics spun bullshit so they didn't have to face what quickly became significant issues with the car is bordering on criminal...it was that behaviour that eventually stuffed my engine.

You had valvetrain/lash adjuster rattle, not timing chain "Rattle" and the carbon was likely a PCV issue for which there is a TSB. In a small way, I'm surprised that wasn't considered. But then, that usually strikes at higher miles. On the other hand, low RPM loading and other factors can make it worse, so who knows.

#3 (shifting, etc.) is better because PCM/tcm is all reset and starting over. These are actually programmed to drop 2 gears at a time when under load! Don't even think of that as a problem, it's not. It's less wear on the transmission if the PCM detects needed torque is best accomplished by dropping down TWO gears instead of one, then dropping down again. Saves a lot of wear and tear on the transmission, fluid lasts longer, and so does the engine because these things need to rev.
I've seen mine drop 2, even 3 gears at a time when it was windy and I was on one of our hills here trying to maintain 70 mph or so. It's not a problem, it's a feature, designed to make the transmission and fluid last longer and keep the RPM in the range where it makes some power.

These do need to rev up. Don't even think about trying to keep rpm down if you want it to last a while. Don't be afraid of rpm over 4000. It can't even make full power at less than 3000 because the valves don't fully open under 3000. People freak out at rpm in the 3000-4000 range or more. Gotta get over that. Mine sees 4000 rpm almost every time I take it out on our highways and hills. It loves it.
Anyone trying to keep the RPM below 3,000 is doing their engine a big disservice. Let it wind up.

 

[adamjedgar]

You had valvetrain/lash adjuster rattle, not timing chain "Rattle" and the carbon was likely a PCV issue for which there is a TSB. In a small way, I'm surprised that wasn't considered. But then, that usually strikes at higher miles. On the other hand, low RPM loading and other factors can make it worse, so who knows.

I already explained the carbon buildup...it was PCV failure. What you did not read was that it took the original dealership 8 months to diagnose and replace it (in that time my car did 20,000km with a really bad presentation issue)

Low RPM loading on an automatic??? (I'm sorry but how do you figure that happens as a result of driver error???)

Lets just look at the facts here...

My car is 2 years old

• started having engine and tramission issues at approx 12,000 km
• the engine issue was finally addressed at 36,000km(heads removed, pcv replace) when the transmission also failed.
• The transmission replacement was not done correctly causing the second transmission to get water in it and also fail only a few months later
• had a water pump failure soon after the first transmission was replaced
• 3 oil coolers were installed in 2024 because mechanics damaged the first two whilst working on the car (removing the heads, and various other works undertaken)
• New engine at 59,000km
• New water pump at 59,000km (this is the third water pump)
• New thermostat at 59,000km

Finally, if you don't know the difference in sound between a ratlle and chain noise...I'm been around automotive engines for a long time and am very familiar with the difference in sound. They are a very different sound.

Also, i had to opportunity to inspect the timing chain tensioners on the old engine after it was removed.



To conclude my post here, as the car has a new engine and a new transmission and appears to be running fine...


I simply point out the pattern in my experience...its been the same from the get go. Most of the problems are due to extremely poor service standards and downright lies by service departments at Jeep dealerships. This has resulted in little problems become catastrophes (transmission and engine replacement)

Now you might claim, Adam is driving his car too hard...i challenge anyone to look underneath my jeep...the only component underneath with any damage is the steering dampener. Mine has barely more than scratched underneath the belly plates because I'm relatively careful with it when out 4wding on tough tracks.

The bent steering dampener is a known flaw in Jeeps that aftermarket companies have already provided a modification for so that it doesnt hang down low under the diff anymore. I haven't changed mine because the car is still under warranty.

You say Pentastar's are made to rev...it does not matter what engine one runs, high rpm shortens engine life...there are no exceptions to this rule and that is because the wear is related to the speed of the component moving up and down in the bore and the number of cycles performed as a result. High-revving engines never last longer than low-revving ones...this is one reason why diesels are known to get much better longevity than petrol engines (despite the much higher compression ratios and even turbocharging).

I wouldn't say I like to allow my jeep to rev high. I have no exceptions to this rule of mine. Also, I'm not particularly eager to load it up either...that is bad for the bearings among other things. I like to try always to keep the engine rpm within a happy medium...preferably not higher than 4000 on the hwy and the occasional 5000 out on the trails. Lots of guys hit the rev limiters on their 4wds...i don't have the money to rebuild broken drive train components and engines as a result of beating the crap out of my car.

 

[adamjedgar]

Oh i just thought i would add in video of the new engine cold start...no more rattle

 

[adamjedgar]

Oh man...flaming mechanics!

Anyone notice anything wrong in the photograph attached

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Oh man...flaming mechanics!

Anyone notice anything wrong in the photograph attached

Missing the breather end on the transmission breather tube and if you were hoping for the top heat shield for the engine, forget it, your engine doesn’t need a cover to trap heat in. I tossed mine.

 

[adamjedgar]

Missing the breather end on the transmission breather tube and if you were hoping for the top heat shield for the engine, forget it, your engine doesn’t need a cover to trap heat in. I tossed mine.

Yep the transmission breather cap.
I have never had the proper cap off, is this what's normally inside the hose(just a rubber plug)?

 

[legacy_etu]

Yep the transmission breather cap.
I have never had the proper cap off, is this what's normally inside the hose(just a rubber plug)?

Got me, I’ve never removed it but I wouldn’t think there‘d be a plug there. This is what mine looks like with the breather cap on.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

You say Pentastar's are made to rev...it does not matter what engine one runs, high rpm shortens engine life...there are no exceptions to this rule and that is because the wear is related to the speed of the component moving up and down in the bore and the number of cycles performed as a result. High-revving engines never last longer than low-revving ones...this is one reason why diesels are known to get much better longevity than petrol engines (despite the much higher compression ratios and even turbocharging).

Horrible logic. I guess you've never driven the Japanese cars of old - those things rev high and last longer than slower running American made engines of the same era.
I know about wear - I've been a mechanic for likely longer than you've been alive.
But modern engines are very different and comparing a gas to a diesel engine? Joke.
Motorcycle engines, car engines in Korean and Japanese cars, all rev high - way higher than even these, and they last fine.
These don't even make power under 3,000 rpm because of the low valve lift.
Take an LS engine, Chevy people have said for years "they are made to rev". They race them, people have had LS engines in trucks and those engines run 4,000 RPM a lot.
You seem to feel you know more about engines than experiences, educated mechanics do.
I've worked on, owned, driven more than you've ever been in. And yes, running an engine at load and low RPM is very hard on them. The forces are greatly increased against the rings/cylinder walls. If you lower combustion chamber temperatures and forces, even with higher RPM, you make it last longer.
It's about heat rejection, combustion chamber pressures which force the rings out harder against the cylinder walls, literally over-working the engine at lower RPM - that increases wear. Higher RPM with reduced temperatures and pressures can actually mean less wear.
I was thinking about getting my engine building books out, college texts and so on, but....
I see there's no way even someone in the know with real-world experience will ever get some of these facts through to you. You are convinced you know.
Just reading that message, though, is all l need to know that your "engine knowledge" is mostly based on reading and that sort of thing. No training, no engine building experience.

I have my oil analysis, training and decades of experience to prove to me that high RPM running isn't doing anything bad. Not these days.

Carry on - do whatever.

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