My absolute nightmare Jeep Gladiator Experience over the last 20 months

[ShadowsPapa]

If you go back and look at tue last lot of photos i sent, you can see that with th, the block and transmission are shiny clean, everything else on the engine is as dirty as the day it enterred the Jeep worshop.

I am not used ro the idea that mechanics dont clean parts anymore. Is that how things really are these days? My dad was a mechanic...he would never have accepted that kind of nonsense with engine rebuilds/swaps.

In the end, when taking all of this in, yeah, you've been jacked around for sure, and the service there stinks (could use a much stronger word, of course)
My father wasn't a mechanic himself but did work in a factory for years. He made his way up to inspector, line inspector, and chief inspector - so picky that a major company they made things for came in for their usual checking things out, inspecting things in the factory, and went to the higher-ups and said "we'll sign the next contract, but this guy has to be the inspector for the products you make for us".
Of course that didn't make a few others happy in that plant, on the other hand, he was elected UAW local president for a while, and the company loved him.
I can't stand putting things together dirty. That goes for anything from restorations to "just fix it and make it work" jobs. Clean matters, especially on modern equipment - tight tolerances and so on. Even years ago, you could end up wiping out pilot bearings and bushings on a manual transmission if the face of the bell housing wasn't clean and the mounting surface on the back of the block wasn't clean.

The outside of the T5 I rebuilt for my car was as clean as the inside, all parts were checked again for cleanliness before going back in even though I had thoroughly cleaned things up.

For automatics, I use a refinishers' "tack cloth" on parts before they go back in to make sure there's not even a trace of lint or dust.

Your engine bay should have looked like brand new - engine, and all parts, when you got it back. No excuse.

(My wife and i still are hoping for a trip to Australia - it would be interesting to meet, and see where you "wheel" and what things are like in your area. Lots of money and we're not fans of "tours" that tell you where you will go and what you will see, so we'll see what happens........ )

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[adamjedgar]

ive got 50 litres of demineralised water, concentrate coolant, and road side assist are on the way

 

[adamjedgar]

Your engine bay should have looked like brand new - engine, and all parts, when you got it back. No excuse.

(My wife and i still are hoping for a trip to Australia - it would be interesting to meet, and see where you "wheel" and what things are like in your area. Lots of money and we're not fans of "tours" that tell you where you will go and what you will see, so we'll see what happens........ )

absolutely agree with your conclusion about the cleanliness. Having spent time driving my own bobcat and mini excavator, out on the job, I've fudged reassemblies dirt warts and all plenty of times...but these are dedicated workshops working on cars worth tens of thousands of dollars with all the clearing equipment at their fingertips. There's no excuse i agree.

In terms of your trip to Australia...i live in Sunbury Victoria about 15 minutes drive WNW of Tullermarine (Melbourne) International Airport and certainly would gladly meet up. Im a long way from the Victorian High Country, that's 4 hours drive east of here, however, Wombat State forest is a great 4wd spot for day trips...lots of bog holes and mud ...especially in the winter months when its constantly wet around here. My car isn't hard core enough for the really tough tracks in the winter (i only have 2" lift and 33" tyres) I do get out there often in the wet although just a bit more selective and careful in those conditions, however during the summer its great.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

ive got 50 litres of demineralised water, concentrate coolant, and road side assist are on the way

I’d say as soon as you get it back, you’re ready for your project.

 

[Stan H]

ive got 50 litres of demineralised water, concentrate coolant, and road side assist are on the way

What now ???

 

[adamjedgar]

I’d say as soon as you get it back, you’re ready for your project.

well as expected...road side assist weren't much help...but that wasn't the point of getting them really, i just wanted it documented on Jeeps database that a mechanic has looked at the car and photographed that its cooling system reservoir is clearly empty.

Road side assist got out of their car and pulled out a battery tester. I said, "you wont be needing that"
he said "why not"

I said "the car has just had a new battery put in it with and the issue is, the engine overheated ...that was why i called for road side assist in the first place"

He said " they didn't tell me that"

Anyway, I'm not upset, i didn't expect any more than the above and I'm happy enough that at least its recorded with a photo now on Jeeps database that the car is low on water.

Sooooo....

Adam then got to work

1. decided to not drain the system...just put more demineralisted waster into the system...it took about 2.5 litres and obviously some of that is up in the funnel.

2. started the engine up and began hand pumping any soft hose i could find in the engine bay noting whether or not pumping said hose caused bubbles to flow back up through the funnel. Spent about half an hour pumping various hoses and bleeding air.

3. Once thermostat had opened and engine was up to operating temp, it began to purge bubbles through the funnel without me pumping hoses...i continued this for about another 30 minutes (maybe longer) whilst monitoring the funnel coolant temp with a thermometer.

Caveat...a thermometer in the funnel isn't particularly accurate...the funnel has a rather large surface area and seems to cool the water inside it quite quickly...touching the reservoir felt quite a bit hotter to the hand than what the funnel did. Funnel temp sat around 50 degrees celsius.

Observations


1. The water seemed to regularly surge back up into the funnel then drop again in repeating cycles of perhaps a couple of minutes apart at most...using almost the entire funnel capacity each time. I don't really understand that???

2. I had the heat on inside the cab the entire time...its only blowing cold air no matter what i do to the climate control settings

3. Three of the solid lines that i think feed back into the cab...two of them eventually got very hot to the touch, however the third one remained at ambient air temperature.

4. just prior to engine shutdown, coolant level was at the top of the funnel. After shutdown, the entire contents of the funnel and a considerable amount of reservoir volume were sucked back down into the engine cooling system!

Becasue the cabin heat is blowing cold air after over an hour of engine running at idle...

thermo fans was turning over at very slow speed so engine was definitely at operating temp...

I'm now suspicious that the heat exchanger inside the cab may be blocked??

Thinking back to the previous engine failure at Berrima NSW...it was a sudden sky rocket of temp...i wonder if it the previous engine is responsible for the trouble the dealership had trying to purge the air out of the system after installing this engine and, that the heater not working is a result of contamination of the heat exchanger galleries from the old engine failure...and that is the reason for my current predicament?

(photos are mostly in reverse order but you get the gist of it)

First photo is level just prior to engine shutdown
Second photo is level just after engine shutdown
photo 3 is temperature setting on climate control
photo 4 is the bottle of demineralised water , i put in 2.5ltr out of a 5 litre bottle
last photo is cars own temp gauge and rpm settings just prior to shutdown

 

[adamjedgar]

Update...i tried but failed. As soon as i attempted to drive the car after purging cooling system, the car began to overheat...i didn't even get 300m from our house or above 30km/hr.

Whats ironic about this...i did a little survey...

27th December 2024
Local Jeep dealership = 3 jeeps delivered on tow trucks
Local Toyota dealership = 0 cars delivered with breakdowns


28th December 2024
Local Jeep dealership = 2 cars delivered on the same tow truck that has just also loaded mine (so another 3 cars today)

In 2 days 6 Jeeps have gone to local dealership on tow trucks!

I hope that the Stellantis Australia Boss sees this...because honestly, he is a twit if he thinks that his recent public statement about improvements Jeep Australia have already made in the last year will make even the slightest difference to market share and falling sales!

Stellantis has a new managing director in Australia, but the previous boss' focus on improving customer service and parts pricing hasn't been forgotten.​

Speaking in 2020, then-Stellantis Australia managing director Kevin Flynn made improving after sales support for the existing Jeep car parc a priority.​

"What was clear was as the massive growth happened in 2014, 2015 and around that era, we created a bit of a void in terms of the need to support our customers – from a technical point of view, from a care point of view – we just didn't have eyes on it," he told CarExpert. ​

​

Then there's this news spin from Stellantis Global boss​

​

Jeep’s global president Christian Meunièr has conceded the company "messed up" in Australia, but is confident it can become a top-10 brand here.​

​

Speaking to local journalists during an online conference from the United States, Meunièr (pictured above) said he was "heartbroken" to see the brand downgraded here, after its surge in popularity a decade ago spurred on by the iconic ‘I bought a Jeep’ ad campaign.​

​

“We messed up,” he admitted. “We’re fixing it, and we’re going to take care of you.”​

Meunièr, who has led Jeep since May 2019 after a short stint as global president of Infiniti, said he’s a lot more upbeat about the future after seeing changes being implemented under FCA Australia Managing Director and CEO Keven Flynn.​

The experienced Englishman took the reins in 2019 after successive company bosses failed to turn around the company's fortunes after a series of scandals and failed recovery strategies.​

MORE2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee undergoes 'extreme' Australian testing​

“I have spent quite a lot of time with the team there with Kevin, and I’m very pleased that all the things that we talked about when I was in Australia and New Zealand have been implemented,” Meunièr said.​

“Obviously the pandemic has been a disaster at one point in time at the beginning of the year and had really slowed down the ramp-up and the implementation of the plan, but I think the team has been able to overcome it. https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/jeep-aims-for-australian-revival​

My answer to this twit...the pandemic ruined your ideas? Seriously? You are going to blame covid for this? People don't buy the car because of covid.

They don't buy it because alongside the competition:
- the cars you make arent reliable,
-arent tough enough,
- dealers mechanical work and quality control is utter rubbish,
- support's first port of call is to attempt to convince the customer the issues with the cars are the customers fault!

...ill stop there before i blow a fuse (or break something on my desk)

Once again, I'm watching my pride and joy disappear into the distance on the back of a tow truck (this is the 5th time in just over 12 months and since 36,000km...car now has 60,000km on the clock)

Ive also spent more time and travelled further in hire cars this year than my Jeep.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Update...i tried but failed. As soon as i attempted to drive the car after purging cooling system, the car began to overheat...i didn't even get 300m from our house or above 30km/hr.

What was the conclusion of you purging the system? Did you see debris in the old coolant? Do you feel the pump was working properly and you saw bubbles and burps as the temps got hot? Did you try different angles and pitches to move air along and out?

To me, if the flush and fill process didn’t raise any alarm bells or make you think something wasn’t right and pressure/temp was holding normal when done accept when you went on your drive then there’s some blockage or the thermostat is the culprit.

Just speculating here, either you had some disgruntled tech sabotage your new engine by creating a blockage or the thermostat needs swapping out.

I don’t want to believe a tech did something sinister to your engine but if the truck goes in and has a new thermostat put in and it still over heats, something is blocking the flow. But….if something is blocking flow, you’d have the same over heating when you did the flush prior to driving. It would over heat sitting there.

Something is super weird,…I wish I lived close by, I would lend a hand.

 

[adamjedgar]

What was the conclusion of you purging the system? Did you see debris in the old coolant? Do you feel the pump was working properly and you saw bubbles and burps as the temps got hot? Did you try different angles and pitches to move air along and out?

To me, if the flush and fill process didn’t raise any alarm bells or make you think something wasn’t right and pressure/temp was holding normal when done accept when you went on your drive then there’s some blockage or the thermostat is the culprit.

Just speculating here, either you had some disgruntled tech sabotage your new engine by creating a blockage or the thermostat needs swapping out.

I don’t want to believe a tech did something sinister to your engine but if the truck goes in and has a new thermostat put in and it still over heats, something is blocking the flow. But….if something is blocking flow, you’d have the same over heating when you did the flush prior to driving. It would over heat sitting there.

Something is super weird,…I wish I lived close by, I would lend a hand.

I decided not to fully flush the system. I just topped it up (didnt want to introduce too many variables at once)

The thermostat and pump are both brand new. They were swapped out with the engine change.

I could also see water movment after the first purge session and i did thst hose temp comparison ive seen on youtube for checking the thermostat has opened...it was definately working during first purge with the radiator reservoir cap off and just using no pressure in the system and a funnel.

However, i shut down,removed funnel, topped up with water, the install the cap, and let car cool down for 2 hours...got back in started up...things didnt go well from that point.

Its certainly possible the new thermostart is sticking but the heater in the car blowing cold air when its lines in the engine bay are hot???? Im suspicius of that.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

I decided not to fully flush the system. I just topped it up (didnt want to introduce too many variables at once)

The thermostat and pump are both brand new. They were swapped out with the engine change.

I could also see water movment after the first purge session and i did thst hose temp comparison ive seen on youtube for checking the thermostat has opened...it was definately working during first purge with the radiator reservoir cap off and just using no pressure in the system and a funnel.

However, i shut down,removed funnel, topped up with water, the install the cap, and let car cool down for 2 hours...got back in started up...things didnt go well from that point.

Its certainly possible the new thermostart is sticking but the heater in the car blowing cold air when its lines in the engine bay are hot???? Im suspicius of that.

Last question from me is do you have a coolant tester and checked what the “boiling point” of your concentrate + water was finally at?

EDIT: Never mind my last question. I just had to wrap my head around what you said (just filled bottle) and not what you were planning (full flush).

So now my question is somewhat the same, did you check the concentration of the mixture of the coolant fill from the dealership when you got it back with the new engine to see what the boiling point was at?

 

[adamjedgar]

Last question from me is do you have a coolant tester and checked what the “boiling point” of your concentrate + water was finally at?

EDIT: Never mind my last question. I just had to wrap my head around what you said (just filled bottle) and not what you were planning (full flush).

So now my question is somewhat the same, did you check the concentration of the mixture of the coolant fill from the dealership when you got it back with the new engine to see what the boiling point was at?

No i havent checked that.
tomorrow, iwill put up a youtube video for you guys to look at. Its relating to the chsnging water level in the funnel. It always increases to full funnel, then to below half funnel then back to full again in cycles of about 1 minute.
I am not able to explain why it doee that?

It cant just be water expansion...its happen too fast for that and it was doing it without thermo fan running...so i dont think its tempersture related.

How can a full system send a litre of water up into a funnel, then take it all back again in repeating cycles so close together? Is this normal when no reservoir cap is on and the system isnt pressurised?

Also, why did my car not overheat when i had the funnel in for an hour purging air, but after i put the radiator cap back on, let it cool down then run pressurised 2 hours it starts running hot whilst idling after only about 15minutes?

Its almost like something controlling water flow works sometimes, then not other times...crook thermostat would make sense...but its brand new because the old thermostatwas suspect. Whats the fhances of that happening twice on two engines?

Do JT s have any electronic flow comtroller for water flow in the engine or somewhere else in the system that would change water level in the funnel like that??

Is it possible that gladiators have an electronically assisted thermostatic control?

 

[PuddleJumper]

Well I thought my Jeep experience was gonna be exactly like yours. I was up a creek with all my Toyota rigs and figured if i'm gonna be under my truck every weekend fixing something, I might as well get something that doesn't get stuck at the mere thought of leaving asphalt or bend a tie rod/blow a CV at the mention of a pothole. I even have a fund set aside for a V8 swap because I assumed the 3.6 would shit the bed well before i even hit 20k. Being on the Toyota band wagon for so long I went into Jeep assuming the worse but ready. I couldn't stand another day of forking over 2000ish usd every month to keep a Tundra road worthy or the busted knuckles, late nights, early mornings required as well. Boy was I shocked. It just works. Every single f'ing time. Its not fast but it'll pull everything from a couple motorcycles up to my 19ft NOBO with surprising capability. Every time i ask something of her, she's just the little blue truck that could. 40,000 miles in 1 year of utter abuse all across the east coast. Not so much as a squeak, rattle or leak. If i hit 100k miles odo before needing that hemi swap, I'll be ecstatic. Even my buddy's in there toyota rigs have stop talking shit. every trail we leave they know they have a 200 dollar alignment bill minimum ahead and I just need a wash. They stop at every gas station cus they get 11-13mpg just turning 33s and I'm getting 16+ rolling 37s. WITH NO LIFT! No work needed, just slap whatever you want on and go. This has been the most painless off-roading rig experience, ever. I don't think i could ever consider a Tacoma again.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

No i havent checked that.
tomorrow, iwill put up a youtube video for you guys to look at. Its relating to the chsnging water level in the funnel. It always increases to full funnel, then to below half funnel then back to full again in cycles of about 1 minute.
I am not able to explain why it doee that?

It cant just be water expansion...its happen too fast for that and it was doing it without thermo fan running...so i dont think its tempersture related.

How can a full system send a litre of water up into a funnel, then take it all back again in repeating cycles so close together? Is this normal when no reservoir cap is on and the system isnt pressurised?

Also, why did my car not overheat when i had the funnel in for an hour purging air, but after i put the radiator cap back on, let it cool down then run pressurised 2 hours it starts running hot whilst idling after only about 15minutes?

Its almost like something controlling water flow works sometimes, then not other times...crook thermostat would make sense...but its brand new because the old thermostatwas suspect. Whats the fhances of that happening twice on two engines?

Do JT s have any electronic flow comtroller for water flow in the engine or somewhere else in the system that would change water level in the funnel like that??

Is it possible that gladiators have an electronically assisted thermostatic control?

My understanding of the rise and fall as you described is showing air lock in the system that isn’t moving out or you’ve got something blocking that shouldn’t be there. It may not be blocking 100% which may explain when the engine is idling you see this rise and fall as you describe and the “fall” indicates fluid is getting through he thermostat but then when the engine is under load, the fluid doesn’t escape fast enough through the blockage which then causes an overheat situation.

I don’t know how I came about the information of air lock has been a thing for some people but I knew this before doing my flush on both the first and second engine. I too had the rise and fall of the fluid as you described and I also have the coolant bucket you used and I would see this rise and fall of coolant as 1. Thermostat opening and closing and; 2. Air lock needs to work its way out.

This is where I would move the levels of the front of the truck around to raise the front end up higher, then passenger side higher then drivers side higher and I’d eventually see that air move out.

I also can’t imagine the techs have the time to do this and should have other easier ways of pulling that air out. ?? You’d need a tech that’s reading your story to come on here to give his/her opinion.

My process also included using a coolant tester to check the mixture was high enough to deal with our extreme cold temps we see here in Canada and if I got that right, I know the boiling point would also be right.

Your issue may be as simple as playing around with the angles as you try to chase the air lock out and isn’t something sinister as a disgruntled tech who has to teach you a lesson. Too bad you didn’t try that before sending it off to who knows who doing who knows what.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

OP, as I keep thinking about this, something we haven’t discussed is whether or not you noticed the fan running when the engine was over heating. ??

Is it possible that gladiators have an electronically assisted thermostatic control?

Probably the rad fan would assist here. Have you checked that connection at the fan? Chase down the harness to look for loose ends?

If you’ve chased all these things down, and we know you haven’t yet, we are just throwing shit to the wind to see what sticks but there’s only a few things that your overheating could be and you have to dig in and through process of elimination, figure out or narrow down the causes. But if I were you I wouldn’t wait one more day with your truck sitting in a lot no one has the heart to look at. I’d have it towed back and find the problem.

Another issue is you like to water/mud ford and again, I’d be looking at what electrical connections (major/small) that lived under water/mud for all those times and pull them apart and clean them out, inspect for water ingress and use an electrical connection spray like DetoxIt shield to further protect them.

 

[adamjedgar]

OP, as I keep thinking about this, something we haven’t discussed is whether or not you noticed the fan running when the engine was over heating. ??


Probably the rad fan would assist here. Have you checked that connection at the fan? Chase down the harness to look for loose ends?

If you’ve chased all these things down, and we know you haven’t yet, we are just throwing shit to the wind to see what sticks but there’s only a few things that your overheating could be and you have to dig in and through process of elimination, figure out or narrow down the causes. But if I were you I wouldn’t wait one more day with your truck sitting in a lot no one has the heart to look at. I’d have it towed back and find the problem.

Another issue is you like to water/mud ford and again, I’d be looking at what electrical connections (major/small) that lived under water/mud for all those times and pull them apart and clean them out, inspect for water ingress and use an electrical connection spray like DetoxIt shield to further protect them.

Yep once it started to get hot, thermofan increased accordingly.

If I had MOPAR coolant, I would have completely evacuated the system of fluid and air, then refilled.
This method would have ensured no air bubbles (apparently according to youtube vids I've seen)

Thing is, I drove the car for almost 1,000km after engine install before this happened. Given heater is blowing cold air too, an obstruction of some kind seems logical (whether mechanical or contaminant)

One thing I haven't done...carbon monoxide test. I dont have any gut feeling it's blown a gasket though.

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