Is the payload under rated

[JTdiRtyD]

And why does it always end up someone minimizes the conversation by stating "my luggage and adults put me over weight" No one gives a shit about that. We're talking about a 900 pound rating and hauling 1500-1800 pounds with it.
No one tussles over 2 or 3 hundred pounds. But every time it comes up - someone always the same then drops it down to "100-200 over". That's never a question and yes, many cars will end up over their payload rating with a family of large people and the trunk packed with stuff.
It's about "well over rating", not "a little bit over" but someone keeps justifying it with low ball examples.

The original post was literally stating 1000lbs... and was asking if the truck is under rated at 900lbs, not about the legalities or if the Iowa State Patrol was going to come after them. So the real question should be, why does it always end up someone comes in and derails a thread to try and argue a point?

And fear mongering? According to your replies on here if I get into an accident and I have a full vehicle of people the Iowa State Patrol is going to send me to prison for being over GVWR.

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[Zachanadandy]

The original post was literally stating 1000lbs... and was asking if the truck is under rated at 900lbs, not about the legalities or if the Iowa State Patrol was going to come after them. So the real question should be, why does it always end up someone comes in and derails a thread to try and argue a point?

And fear mongering? According to your replies on here if I get into an accident and I have a full vehicle of people the Iowa State Patrol is going to send me to prison for being over GVWR.

You beat me to it. I use myself as the example of how underrated the truck is. That doesn't change the OPs question about 100 lbs. My tolerance for pushing the limit is higher than most. I jump the truck with several hundred pounds of tools, recovery gear, etc in it at freeway speeds in the desert. I'm no engineer but I know enough about dynamic loads and force multiplication that comes with speed to guarantee my suspension, axles, tires, frame, etc see more load there than the occasional trip where I load up 1,800 pounds of pavers or tow an 8,400 pound trailer on the freeway at 65mph. If I'm at fault for an accident then I'm at fault. The load doesn't change that. Even with my over-use, it's nowhere near a legal issue. For towing over weight to reach a misdemeanor level in CA it has to exceed 4500 pounds over the rating. Even I won't hook an 11,000 pound trailer up to the JT. Even if I was commercial being 1500 pounds over is a $20-30 fine. Nobody cares about a few hundred pounds or even 1,000. I run E rated tires knowing full well the abuse I'm going to put the thing through. I'm not telling anyone to do what I do, just sharing my experience and some of the facts I've found as someone who does push the limits and lives in the gray areas of the rules.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

But if you're not at fault, and a gram overweight...

Social Media DOT will be there.

They never rest.

Justice will be served.

 

[BearFootSam]

Read the payload and towing test protocols, the rated capacities are established under worst case conditions - high ambient temperatures, altitude, steep grades and highway speeds. In reality the safe limits (mind not rated or legal limits) will vary with the conditions. What can be safely hauled at 45mph on flat pavement at 55°F will be much greater than what can be carried at 75mph over mountain pass at 100°F. When we see higher ratings for the same vehicle in other markets it’s often due to differing legal and regulatory requirements. In the EU for example camper trailers are limited to 100kph or less hence you see sedans hauling what we might consider truck weights stateside. Same scenario with the Kei trucks packing 600cc engines with higher payload ratings than the Gladiator. The JDM consumer is expected to adhere to more stringent speed and maintenance requirements, Americans like to push the limits and so our ratings are commensurately lower.

I’ve hauled a 1,000lbs of water in an IGC tote across town and feel confident the truck would have been totally fine with another 500lbs on board. That said I wouldn’t try to take 1,500lbs of water over a curvy mountain pass at 70mph. I’d say you could safely exceed the sticker limits from an engineering standpoint if you exercise due care and recognize the unique demands of various cargoes. Water for example sloshes and introduces a dynamic element while an especially tall load negatively impacts stability.

 

[BearFootSam]

Like many have said, there’s a lot more involved in those rating than just the springs. My Rubicon LE springs are impressive though. It rides level with 1500 lbs in the bed. It starts sagging after that. I’ve never had more than 1700-1800 lbs in it and I’ve never driven it more than a few miles like that. Across town from the stone yard. I’ve had countless 1/2 yards in the bed. A full yard a hand full of times. A full yard fills it all the way up. lol.

Clayton triple rate HD springs on my Rube made such a big difference over the stock with payload. IMO single rate springs are not good, you end up with too much bounce. With a good load the first “rate” of the new springs gets taken up and the truck is way more planted and stable compared to stock. I strongly recommend the upgrade for anyone regularly hauling.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Read the payload and towing test protocols, the rated capacities are established under worst case conditions - high ambient temperatures, altitude, steep grades and highway speeds. In reality the safe limits (mind not rated or legal limits) will vary with the conditions. What can be safely hauled at 45mph on flat pavement at 55°F will be much greater than what can be carried at 75mph over mountain pass at 100°F. When we see higher ratings for the same vehicle in other markets it’s often due to differing legal and regulatory requirements. In the EU for example camper trailers are limited to 100kph or less hence you see sedans hauling what we might consider truck weights stateside. Same scenario with the Kei trucks packing 600cc engines with higher payload ratings than the Gladiator. The JDM consumer is expected to adhere to more stringent speed and maintenance requirements, Americans like to push the limits and so our ratings are commensurately lower.

I’ve hauled a 1,000lbs of water in an IGC tote across town and feel confident the truck would have been totally fine with another 500lbs on board. That said I wouldn’t try to take 1,500lbs of water over a curvy mountain pass at 70mph. I’d say you could safely exceed the sticker limits from an engineering standpoint if you exercise due care and recognize the unique demands of various cargoes. Water for example sloshes and introduces a dynamic element while an especially tall load negatively impacts stability.

Logic, sense, reasoning all outweigh arbitrary rules in my opinion. How is a big rig pulling triples safe at 80mph on the freeway in Utah and yet that's the same maximum safe and legal speed for a Bugatti? Almost like the rules are written for the lowest common denominator? The max tow doesn't have a special frame, axles, etc vs a Rubicon or mojave. The only advantage it has is stiffer springs. And yet it's rated to tow 700-1,700 pounds more and has 500lbs more payload. Put stiffer springs on your JT and it will tow the same.

 

[NC_Overland]

Clayton triple rate HD springs on my Rube made such a big difference over the stock with payload. IMO single rate springs are not good, you end up with too much bounce. With a good load the first “rate” of the new springs gets taken up and the truck is way more planted and stable compared to stock. I strongly recommend the upgrade for anyone regularly hauling.

I’m not sure what it is about those Rubicon LE springs I have, but they somehow have the highest available spring rate (at the time) but it also rides good. They act like a progressive spring, but I don’t think they are. I put them on Feb 2020, but they came off an LE that was taken off at the dealership when brand new.

 

[BearFootSam]

Logic, sense, reasoning all outweigh arbitrary rules in my opinion. How is a big rig pulling triples safe at 80mph on the freeway in Utah and yet that's the same maximum safe and legal speed for a Bugatti? Almost like the rules are written for the lowest common denominator? The max tow doesn't have a special frame, axles, etc vs a Rubicon or mojave. The only advantage it has is stiffer springs. And yet it's rated to tow 700-1,700 pounds more and has 500lbs more payload. Put stiffer springs on your JT and it will tow the same.

The other notable differences with the max tow are a slightly lower ride height, highway biased tires and a tad lower weight though not enough to account for the payload. Dynamic control (emergency maneuvers) is probably the driving factor.

I wouldn’t put it past the OEMs that the payload limits for the gladiator (and other midsize trucks) may be set so as not to cannibalize full size sales. If every gladiator was rated for 1,700lbs too many would be Ram buyers might shop the Jeep instead.

 

[JTdiRtyD]

Idealy I'd like to see it actually broke down WHY payloads are what they are. Like the actual data;

"When we tested the rotarygirdle, we found that the longevity of the scirmlbuckle was significantly reduced at loads over 1,213 lbs, and we saw significant scoring of the spherical shaftnickle coating."

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

I’m not sure what it is about those Rubicon LE springs I have, but they somehow have the highest available spring rate (at the time) but it also rides good. They act like a progressive spring, but I don’t think they are. I put them on Feb 2020, but they came off an LE that was taken off at the dealership when brand new.

I don't think there is much difference is spring rate among the stock springs.

 

[NC_Overland]

I don't think there is much difference is spring rate among the stock springs.

There’s a huge difference. There are several spring rates within each model. I don’t know how many total, but it’s a lot. For comparison, they’re night and day different from my Overland shocks and mine had the stiffest available overland shocks being fully loaded with every available option including HD tow.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

There’s a huge difference. There are several spring rates within each model. I don’t know how many total, but it’s a lot. For comparison, they’re night and day different from my Overland shocks and mine had the stiffest available overland shocks being fully loaded with every available option including HD tow.

I don’t think it’s a huge difference, but I don’t know what you consider huge.

I’d guess 20 lbs/in between softest and stiffest springs across all models.

 

[NC_Overland]

I don’t think it’s a huge difference, but I don’t know what you consider huge.

I’d guess 20 lbs/in between softest and stiffest springs across all models.

When you put 1200 lbs in the bed of one and it visibly sags and hits the bump stops when driving over bumps and the other rides level and handles fine. That’s night and day. Keep in mind this was on a brand new vehicle so nothing was worn out. I had to ditch that trash immediately because for years I towed and hauled regularly with mine. Six years later, I don’t DD it anymore and it doesn’t have to work hard anymore but it’s held up great.

 

[Bandit’s Lair]

Idealy I'd like to see it actually broke down WHY payloads are what they are. Like the actual data;

"When we tested the rotarygirdle, we found that the longevity of the scirmlbuckle was significantly reduced at loads over 1,213 lbs, and we saw significant scoring of the spherical shaftnickle coating."

A lot of it has to do with tested stopping distance and all that jazz in the crash tests. That’s a main point accident investigators look for. When they measure the stopping distance from first lock up to impact what is the distance and does it fall within the results for that vehicle during testing. They will also be looking for if the tires actually did lock up or is there evidence of antilock functioning normally. Most minor TAs with light to moderate damage/no injury will be measured and common sense will dictate if things look hinky. Meaning if you leave 120’ of rubber on the road and state you were doing 50mph when you engaged the brakes well…… that dog won’t hunt. Major damage TAs and injury TAs get more scrutiny.

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

When you put 1200 lbs in the bed of one and it visibly sags and hits the bump stops when driving over bumps and the other rides level and handles fine. That’s night and day. Keep in mind this was on a brand new vehicle so nothing was worn out. I had to ditch that trash immediately because for years I towed and hauled regularly with mine. Six years later, I don’t DD it anymore and it doesn’t have to work hard anymore but it’s held up great.

I’m not sure understand what you did. What model Gladiators did you use? And you loaded them identically with 1,200 lbs each time? And they were both new and stock?

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